mfbukowski Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 Do apostates go to Spirit Prison? Not necessary- they are already in one of their own making. 2
Avatar4321 Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 I don't think it matters so long as we are not apostates. God can take care of their judgment. They will be accountable for what they've chosen and who they've become just like we are. id much rather preach the gospel of happiness
VideoGameJunkie Posted December 31, 2015 Author Posted December 31, 2015 Before I used to not care where I'd end up in the Plan of Salvation, but now I sometimes obsess over hoping for spirit paradise and exaltation in the top level of the Celestial Kingdom. Anything short, no matter how glorious will be considered coming up short for eternity in my eyes.
Calm Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) 4 hours ago, salgare said: You mean like Scott insisting there is only his? I will try and remember this Calm and avoid it in the future. Is using the term "My God" offensive as well? i don't care how people define their own beliefs. It is when they presume to define others' beliefs that I get annoyed. -------- Jeanne, I have no problem if you wish to explain that your experience as a Mormon was one that was often viewing God with fear or however you wish to describe it, you alone know what your experience of God was and is like. ----- Scott is defining his own understanding of God, that there is only one. He also believes his view of God is the most correct there is (who doesn't? If you didn't, surely you would change your view). He is not telling you what you believe in my opinion. He can clarify if I have misunderstood what he is saying. There is a difference between telling someone their belief is wrong...you or anyone else want to do that I don't protest. It is defining what that belief is for others instead of letting them speak for themselves. Edited December 31, 2015 by Calm
Calm Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 4 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Right I'm trying to do good in the present and the future, but it's my past that would damn me. We are not our pasts. We are who we are now. Eternal progression does not mean planting one's butt in one spot in time and staying there for eternity (that imo is a good description of outer darkness in fact). God isn't one to hold a grudge. He is more than happy to have people leave their sins on his altar and move on without them, I believe. If you can bring yourself to trust his promises, his teachings of forgiveness, chances are you will be much more happy and be able to serve God all that better. The energy, time and effort put into worrying about past sins that are truly past is energy, time and effort not given to God's work now. 1
Calm Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 3 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Before I used to not care where I'd end up in the Plan of Salvation, but now I sometimes obsess over hoping for spirit paradise and exaltation in the top level of the Celestial Kingdom. Anything short, no matter how glorious will be considered coming up short for eternity in my eyes. If that is your true desire, then God is more than able and willing to help you do whatever is needed to get you there. Trust in Him and His love. 1
salgare Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Calm said: i don't care how people define their own beliefs. It is when they presume to define others' beliefs that I get annoyed. -------- Jeanne, I have no problem if you wish to explain that your experience as a Mormon was one that was often viewing God with fear or however you wish to describe it, you alone know what your experience of God was and is like. ----- Scott is defining his own understanding of God, that there is only one. He also believes his view of God is the most correct there is (who doesn't? If you didn't, surely you would change your view). He is not telling you what you believe in my opinion. He can clarify if I have misunderstood what he is saying. Dumb country hick here Calm ... social etiquette (and/or simple English) obviously not my strong point. I think I see the problem here is in "define". If I used better etiquette (or English) and made a more precise statement of opinion, verses my sloppy (but unintentional) statements of fact? "An immoral Mormon God casts the unrepentant apostate away from their family" -- offensive "In my opinion, its an immoral Mormon God that casts the unrepentant apostate away from their family" -- socially acceptable. Of course I slipped in the first place by letting anything but the inverse come out. "My God would never cast an individual out of a family for apostasy from a Church." -- still says, it's my opinion that your God is a jerk right? So how does one make this point? hehe, of course maybe "Oh my ---, do you really believe a God would cast an individual out of a family for apostasy from a Church?" Edited December 31, 2015 by salgare
Calm Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 It would be better to be accurate and say something along the lines of 'it is my opinion that your understanding of God gives God the appearance of being a jerk'. There are too many incorrect implications in something like "your God is a jerk". Unless you really mean you believe there is actually a God (who is only a God for Mormons and no other humans, much like the Greek gods who were gods over only the underworld or over the sea, etc.) out there who is a jerk.
salgare Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Calm said: It would be better to be accurate and say something along the lines of 'it is my opinion that your understanding of God gives God the appearance of being a jerk'. There are too many incorrect implications in something like "your God is a jerk". Unless you really mean you believe there is actually a God (who is only a God for Mormons and no other humans, much like the Greek gods who were gods over only the underworld or over the sea, etc.) out there who is a jerk. Calm what I really believe is that there is one God (to whom I have to do). However the OT/NT/BoM/BoA etc. have given God a very inaccurate description and as humans we have hung on to one too many centuries worth of myths, of which some men have learned how to take great advantage of. Edited December 31, 2015 by salgare
VideoGameJunkie Posted December 31, 2015 Author Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) 1 hour ago, Calm said: If that is your true desire, then God is more than able and willing to help you do whatever is needed to get you there. Trust in Him and His love. Ya that's the thing. Satan makes me think that there's no hope now after being temple endowed and making promises before God, angels, and witnesses, and then breaking the law of chastity multiple times. After that I was like, well that's it I blew my chance at exaltation. That's the kind of thinking that goes through my head. My pattern was break the law of chastity, repent as hard as I could for months, finally return to temple and make covenants again, then a few months later I'd break the law of chastity again. I repeated that pattern for 7 years until I confessed everything to my Bishop. Thankfully he didn't punish me or take away my temple recommend. So I got a priesthood blessing saying I was forgiven of all my sins and I felt the spirit strong, so strong and felt great and clean and returned to the temple often to do ancestor work. Have I been totally clean since? Nope, 4 months after that blessing I broke the law of chastity again and the bishopric had been changed so I had to now confess my sins to that new Bishop who was like my best friend in the church and he gives me a priesthood blessing saying I've been forgiven of my sins. And then I moved to Utah and finally made it to the Provo temple. What happens next? A few months later I'm with a girl who I think is super innocent and she decides to use her hands on me, and I allow it to happen and now I'm back talking to my new Bishop about my law of chastity problems and I haven't been back to the temple since, since I refuse to go if I don't feel worthy to go. That darn lusts and law of chastity will be my eternal damnation and as many times as I repent, I remember breaking my temple covenants multiple times and get scared. Sometimes I find myself giving in because I say to myself, well I've already damned myself in the past already, why not? I know Satan knows my weakness and it's women. And guess what, the only way to get to exaltation is with a woman. And it's hard being single and lonely when you have mental problems that make you feel akward and just even a hello and a smile from a girl makes you think you're special and the girl's interested in you. All this that I explained is why I can perfectly understand if God and Jesus want to punish me in the afterlife and I wouldn't have a reason why they shouldn't. That's what caused my mind to tell me I belong in spirit prison when I had my psychosis episode back in 2013 when I thought I died. I justified that I belonged there. I wanted to get out and be in a better place, but in my mind I felt like my "punishment" was justified. I've gone so far into the deep end and mocked God way too many times for me to have total hope that I'm completely forgiven. I just decided to be honest with myself about it. Edited December 31, 2015 by VideoGameJunkie
Rain Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 8 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Well it raises the question who does wind up in spirit prison, or temporary hell as the scriptures say? Some people have to be there. From the Gospel Principles Manual: The Apostle Peter referred to the postmortal spirit world as a prison, which it is for some (see 1 Peter 3:18–20). In the spirit prison are the spirits of those who have not yet received the gospel of Jesus Christ. These spirits have agency and may be enticed by both good and evil. If they accept the gospel and the ordinances performed for them in the temples, they may leave the spirit prison and dwell in paradise." "Also in the spirit prison are those who rejected the gospel after it was preached to them either on earth or in the spirit prison. These spirits suffer in a condition known as hell. They have removed themselves from the mercy of Jesus Christ, who said, “Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; but if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit” (D&C 19:16–18). After suffering for their sins, they will be allowed, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, to inherit the lowest degree of glory, which is the telestial kingdom." So those who haven't received the gospel yet and those who have "removed themselves" from Christ's mercy through wickedness. I really can't imagine how terrible it must have been for you living that. I know this might sound strange, but have you ever thought to look at that time as a gift? That maybe God was showing you what was in store if you removed yourself from him? Kind of a push to help you focus on the things that would help you stay close to him. -------------- I found the wording interesting in light of the conversation about God and if he would part families.
Rain Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 5 hours ago, Thinking said: This topic reminds me of that old joke about heaven. I've heard this with several different religions. Funny thing is we are about the only Christian religion it doesn't fit since we believe that all good people will be going to one of the 3 kingdoms of heaven.
VideoGameJunkie Posted December 31, 2015 Author Posted December 31, 2015 7 minutes ago, Rain said: I really can't imagine how terrible it must have been for you living that. I know this might sound strange, but have you ever thought to look at that time as a gift? That maybe God was showing you what was in store if you removed yourself from him? Kind of a push to help you focus on the things that would help you stay close to him. -------------- I found the wording interesting in light of the conversation about God and if he would part families. Well I never had anxiety before that episode and I've had it really bad along with PTSD since and have to take anti psychotic meds every night just so I can sleep, but in the positive it was a big wake up call. It resulted in me finally calling the Bishop over my house and laying all my sins out there for him to judge, and it made me finally start doing family names in the temple. My dad's not a member so once my mind got settled from the PTSD I decided my mission was to do family history names in the temple, so I started with my grandparents and went from there doing all the ordinances including sealings going 4 generations back. And I definitely believe God was showing me what was in store if I removed myself from him.
The Nehor Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 5 hours ago, Ahab said: The balking is coming from the side of you that would like to violate your conscience, I think. Or maybe what you only think your conscience should be telling you. Abraham being told to kill his son Isaac is a good example of that, when he was sure God was telling him to sacrifice him. If you were in his position, wouldn't it just be good common sense to do whatever God told you to do as long as you were sure it was God telling you to do it? His own ideas mixed him up at first because at first he thought his conscience should be telling him not to do that. But when he realized it was God he then did what he did with a clear conscience and was rewarded for being faithful to God. Nope. 1
Rain Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 7 hours ago, salgare said: I don't know Calm, I'm not well studied on other Christian denominations, worse yet other non-Christian religions. Being BIC it was always a given that the Church was the only possibly provider of the possibility of eternal families. Upon limited other contacts, It seems others might take it for granted that heaven == being reunited with family. Have we gone to the cross roads and signed up a contract in blood for a shot at a house in a complex hierarchical heaven with a list of requirements as long as my arm and lots of fine print for a freely given gift of God ... Of course my son and daughter , your families await you. What I've found among Christian religions (not personal beliefs) is that most don't believe there will be family at all in heaven and some teach that we won't even know each other from our earth days. 1
The Nehor Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 56 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Ya that's the thing. Satan makes me think that there's no hope now after being temple endowed and making promises before God, angels, and witnesses, and then breaking the law of chastity multiple times. After that I was like, well that's it I blew my chance at exaltation. That's the kind of thinking that goes through my head. My pattern was break the law of chastity, repent as hard as I could for months, finally return to temple and make covenants again, then a few months later I'd break the law of chastity again. I repeated that pattern for 7 years until I confessed everything to my Bishop. Thankfully he didn't punish me or take away my temple recommend. So I got a priesthood blessing saying I was forgiven of all my sins and I felt the spirit strong, so strong and felt great and clean and returned to the temple often to do ancestor work. Have I been totally clean since? Nope, 4 months after that blessing I broke the law of chastity again and the bishopric had been changed so I had to now confess my sins to that new Bishop who was like my best friend in the church and he gives me a priesthood blessing saying I've been forgiven of my sins. And then I moved to Utah and finally made it to the Provo temple. What happens next? A few months later I'm with a girl who I think is super innocent and she decides to use her hands on me, and I allow it to happen and now I'm back talking to my new Bishop about my law of chastity problems and I haven't been back to the temple since, since I refuse to go if I don't feel worthy to go. That darn lusts and law of chastity will be my eternal damnation and as many times as I repent, I remember breaking my temple covenants multiple times and get scared. Sometimes I find myself giving in because I say to myself, well I've already damned myself in the past already, why not? I know Satan knows my weakness and it's women. And guess what, the only way to get to exaltation is with a woman. And it's hard being single and lonely when you have mental problems that make you feel akward and just even a hello and a smile from a girl makes you think you're special and the girl's interested in you. All this that I explained is why I can perfectly understand if God and Jesus want to punish me in the afterlife and I wouldn't have a reason why they shouldn't. That's what caused my mind to tell me I belong in spirit prison when I had my psychosis episode back in 2013 when I thought I died. I justified that I belonged there. I wanted to get out and be in a better place, but in my mind I felt like my "punishment" was justified. I've gone so far into the deep end and mocked God way too many times for me to have total hope that I'm completely forgiven. I just decided to be honest with myself about it. People have done far far worse and been forgiven. Dealing with a besetting sin is a pain but just keep working at it. Something about this weakness can be used to prepare yourself for glory. I have no idea what it is and you may never know either until long after this life but there is something there. 3
salgare Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 8 minutes ago, Rain said: What I've found among Christian religions (not personal beliefs) is that most don't believe there will be family at all in heaven and some teach that we won't even know each other from our earth days. I'm good to retract that suggestion, as I really don't know other doctrines.
salgare Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 Hey Video, in all sincerity, this song goes out to you. 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted December 31, 2015 Author Posted December 31, 2015 12 minutes ago, The Nehor said: People have done far far worse and been forgiven. Dealing with a besetting sin is a pain but just keep working at it. Something about this weakness can be used to prepare yourself for glory. I have no idea what it is and you may never know either until long after this life but there is something there. I've never had a sister or a close female cousin or a serious girlfriend or a daughter, so it may teach me to value women more and appreciate them more for if I ever do by some miracle wind up exalted and have my own spirit children I will be able to treat them like queens and princesses who I love. I've never experienced love, even with all my chastity breaking. Never experienced love once. Hopefully it'll make love when I finally experience it that much more special.
VideoGameJunkie Posted December 31, 2015 Author Posted December 31, 2015 15 minutes ago, salgare said: Hey Video, in all sincerity, this song goes out to you. Thanks man! Hopefully if I ever make it the Celestial Kingdom and exaltation I can say that I went through hell to get there.
The Nehor Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 20 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: I've never had a sister or a close female cousin or a serious girlfriend or a daughter, so it may teach me to value women more and appreciate them more for if I ever do by some miracle wind up exalted and have my own spirit children I will be able to treat them like queens and princesses who I love. I've never experienced love, even with all my chastity breaking. Never experienced love once. Hopefully it'll make love when I finally experience it that much more special. I am sure you have experienced love, just perhaps not romantic love.
VideoGameJunkie Posted December 31, 2015 Author Posted December 31, 2015 21 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I am sure you have experienced love, just perhaps not romantic love. True. I love my cats like children and paid $3,000 out of pocket for a procedure that saved my cat's life no questions asked. And she was 16 years old. I lasted 1 week in the MTC back in 2005 because of my Tourettes syndrome and severe depression and I couldn't handle being away from my cats and family for 2 years. That 1 week in the MTC felt like a prison to me. I wanted to just break free and runaway every day that I was there to rejoin the "real world" and I hated the showers with no privacy.
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