Elder Sitati: Priesthood Ban Has Not Hindered Lds Growth In Africa

[BlueDreams]

 

I was not aware that BYU had made cuts to programs aimed at increasing diversity. That seems a shame, because I agree that BYU does act as a kind of LDS cultural "epicenter." It really is important for BYU to do more to lead out on this, so as to help the entire Church transform. The Temple experiences you described are particularly disappointing. We still have a lot of work to do.

 

It makes sense to me, particularly in more conservative climates. It's a common trend. (mostly white) People advocate for this idea of color blindness or that race is less important today than it was 30-40 years ago in terms of disparities or general human experience. It's like the overreach of the idea of one human race and that all other "races" are a sociological construct. By reducing it's importance what has happened in a lot of spheres is that biases, prejudices, and disparities go unchecked. When a minority community addresses concerns, they may be assumed as creating more of a problem than there actually is. You can see that in the voter registration issues in the south that are currently happening.  

 

One item from your report is very new to me, and I wonder if it wasn't also reflected in Elder Sitati's presentation and President Sullivan's reaction to it: there are cultural differences and some tension between African-American Saints and African Saints. Do you see this as a serious problem?

 

I don't know if I'm the right person to ask, because I've seen this for a while in my own family/experience, so I wasn't surprised by it. I didn't feel super close to an AA experience because I had no real connection to that ethnic community. And the African community often plays with race in a different way in the u.s. and in someways (particularly 1st/2nd generation) they can be treated differently. They also often have high rates of success come the second gen because of the parenting, family structure, and this differing role in the social structure than AA's. My Step-mom for example, felt this in DC when she was in her 20's or so and even their social groups mirror the differences a little. Much of this comes from the fact that they are not paying the effects of generations of discrimination and this isn't their natal culture. 

 

But that's largely outside of the church experiences. Inside the church, I honestly don't know. I think it is a problem in the sense that there's an assumption that a black person/minority would naturally get it. And though they get the fact that they may be treated differently in the U.S. than in their african country (minus S.Africa possibly), there's a distinction between brushing against it and having it be endemic in their daily experience, history, and psyche. Their experience of white dominance was more distant, structural, and of older generations. For AA's it is intimate, integrative, and - though differing from generation to generation - still persistent. But at the same time, it can be a learning position for both. Much of sitati's views on growth in Africa are absolutely needed. Likewise understanding the real implications to abstracted beliefs about the Ban and it's doctrinal justifications may be needed to better understand, particularly for people like Sitati who is in an international leadership position. In short, I think it's more about how we approach it than anything else....and in some ways there is still common ground in both experiences, particularly in the U.S. and at BYU. 

 

Luis Belchior, noted a nice balance in that area (probably not perfect, but in the right direction). He noted learning and respecting what African-American predecessors both in and out of the church did for him to be able to hold the privileges he has now in this country and church. He also was more aware that just because he did not feel necessarily the same degree of problems to other minorities on BYU, that that didn't mean the problems don't exist or in need of addressing. 

 

It's similar for me. I recognize that in many ways my experience does not have much resemblance to an african-american experience both in family history, religion,or general interactions with whites. In that sense, I am privileged. And even how I look and act could be considered a privilege as I would be considered a "safe" minority in a lot of ways. But learning about both the civil rights movement and the experiences in the church has helped to feel indebted to AA history and the work that was done so that my experience could have space to even be like it is today.  If there is acknowledgment and respect for differing experiences I don't think they tension is a serious problem, just a natural part of mutual growth together.

   

With luv

BD

Edited October 12, 2015 by BlueDreams

[Okrahomer]

Blue Dreams:  In case you ever wonder, you provide an invaluable perspective.  Thank you for making the effort--time and time again.

[Maedros]

The growth is exponential given that non-white folk were banned from holding the priesthood in Africa - in America the removal of the ban had very little effect in increasing the baptisms among African Americans. The ban is really not a problem here, it is easy to explain and understand even though there is no easy answer; so this growth is not surprising. Our mission president prophesied in 2000 that the gospel is now coming to Africa and that the stakes and temples of Zion will dot the continent and its happening.

[BlueDreams]

Maedros, where did you serve? And where is "here"....I wasn't sure by your post.

[Calm]

His profile says South Africa.

[Stargazer]

Yes, I agree that "nearly exponential" seems a given, since the starting point was basically nil.

I went to Germany on my mission (back when dinosaurs ruled the earth), and you are correct: it's tough work over there. But I wouldn't trade my experience for anything.

The real highlight of his presentation (at least for me) is the revelation of the expanded PEF and the great benefit it is to the members in Africa. I've felt for a long time that our contributions to the PEF are one of the best opportunities we have to make a real and lasting contribution to our brothers and sisters in developing areas of the world.

As I understood it, Elder Sitati was probably responding to a specific question about whether or not the African Saints were aware of the priesthood ban and whether it was causing any problems for them. His response indicates that the Saints view it as part of the larger history of colonialism on the continent, and the African Saints are not overly concerned with it.

The comment from President Sullivan, who is an African-American Stake President, is a good indication that the priesthood ban is much more of an issue for African-American Saints. So, these two brothers were providing an interesting and important contrast in experience.

If only near-sighted members like our dear, but banned, mormonnewb, could have seen this. Sigh. He probably would have misinterpreted it.

[Stargazer]

Nevermind.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Stargazer

[Stargazer]

I think you could be right about it being a pilot program; but I'm not convinced the church "blows its own horn" nearly as often as it could. The reasons for that are not entirely clear either.

Other than what one reads in the press, I do have some insight into the church's humanitarian and disaster relief efforts, because of what my brother and sister-in-law report from their mission. But I haven't seen anything in the press about what they've been up to--and in my view it's a lot! But I suspect that this is true for the the majority of these things.

Given the potential to appear to be "blowing its own horn", should the church be publicizing these things at all?

According to certain people in this thread, the Church needs to keep its charitable activities Top Secret with a Codeword, and Need to Know enforced by the Danites.

[Stargazer]

Growth is typically exponential, although sometimes it can be linear (or seem to be linear).

Linear Growth: y = a + bx

• a is the beginning value and b is the slope. (Example: If a = 10 and b = 2, the pattern is 10, 12, 14, 16, 18...)

Exponential Growth: y = a·b^x

• a is the beginning value and b is the growth rate. (Example: If a = 10 and b = 1.2, the pattern is 10, 12, 14.4, 17.28, 20.736...)

If the value of b in exponential growth is close to 1, it may be difficult to see a difference between it and linear growth because there aren't fractions of people and real population data does not follow the model equation perfectly.

Suppose the growth rate is 1.01 and the beginning value is 1000.

These are the values rounded to whole numbers: 1000, 1010, 1020, 1030, 1041, 1051, 1062, 1072...

I'm not sure what nearly exponential means, but I hope this explanation helps.

From a mathematical point of view, ALL growth is exponential. The operative equality is the second one you gave:

y = a·b^x

where the first equality is merely the special case where x = 1. The term "exponential" refers to the "exponent" in the equation, which can be any value from -Infinity to +Infinity. If we modify the terminology to conform to Elder Sitati's usage, and consider exponential growth to be growth that goes asymptotic to the vertical axis (i.e. where the exponent is 2 or larger), the term "nearly exponential" would mean a value of x less than 2 and greater than 1. Because x = 1 would be merely linear.

It is important to realize that "exponential growth" in organic systems is an impossible race condition. It's like an infinite loop in computing -- eventually the growth saturates the system and chokes it into rigid immobility. Sooner or later, depending upon how much resources are available. The growth in a human organization cannot possibly go asymptotic to the vertical axis.

Did anyone understand what I just wrote? No? Then my work here is done!

Nephi wrote for clarity; I on the other hand, sometimes like to write for obfuscation.

Or that's what my wife used to say.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Stargazer

[BlueDreams]

I know this is an older post, but I figured I wouldn't start a new one on this. They've placed all of the conference panels on youtube now. 

 

The first is just a commemoration for those that died. 

 

2. is about race and the inner city

3. race and mormon women

4. race and the international church

5. race at brigham young university

6. race at the ward

 

I'm currently listening to some of the race at the ward one. 

 

 

If you're interested in a differen one you can look on the side bar in youtube and find it pretty quickly. 

 

With luv,

BD

[Buckeye]

 

I know this is an older post, but I figured I wouldn't start a new one on this. They've placed all of the conference panels on youtube now. 

 

The first is just a commemoration for those that died. 

 

2. is about race and the inner city

3. race and mormon women

4. race and the international church

5. race at brigham young university

6. race at the ward

 

I'm currently listening to some of the race at the ward one. 

 

 

If you're interested in a differen one you can look on the side bar in youtube and find it pretty quickly. 

 

With luv,

BD

 

Thanks BD. For some reason I didn't pay attention to this post when it circulated a few weeks ago. In particular I missed your comments about the conference. 

 

I'll be sure to watch the Cathy Stokes piece. She's a good friend of mine from my days in Chicago when I was her hometeacher. I recall her advice to all us young grad students that when we graduate we do not just "move the suburbs and abandon the cities." Her advice has weighed heavily on me (and my wife) as we picked a place to live that is both good for our children and also strengthens a poorer area of the vineyard. 

[The Nehor]

Any thoughts on why the church wouldn't make a bigger deal about the expanded PEF program in Africa? It sounds like a good program that should be advertized.

 

Probably to avoid people wanting it in their region.