theplains Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 He gave his all but it's obvious he was struggling, so I myself wouldn't be surprised if we had two more new apostles these next few years, as President Monson and Elder Hales are getting up there in years Are there any Latter-day Saints less than 60 years old who may be chosen to be the next president? Thanks,Jim
Duncan Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Are there any Latter-day Saints less than 60 years old who may be chosen to be the next president? Thanks,Jim how are we to know the answer to that question?
Robert F. Smith Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) .............................................................................. I know they're called of God. I hope you do too. And I hope some day we get an apostle from an ethnically different background. Each culture has interactions with our Savior and we would be blessed to hear of them. (Aside: Nibley suggests that the Lamanites' "darkness of skin" was more a reference to their falling away from truth and resorting to dark habits and customs, not necessarily an actual change in skin pigmentation... I'll find that and post it later if I'm not banned)Yes, I see that you posted that long and perceptive Nibley quote in your post #249. It is from chapter 4 of Lehi in the Desert. However, the problem is that Hugh Nibley is making the claim that the darkness is primarily metaphorical (and in the Improvement Era, no less, the official magazine of the Melchizedek Priesthood), while at the same time you are not opting for a similarly figurative meaning for the phrase "called of God." Unless I misunderstand you, in which case my abject apology. Edited October 16, 2015 by Robert F. Smith 1
Robert F. Smith Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Are there any Latter-day Saints less than 60 years old who may be chosen to be the next president? Thanks,JimThe likelihood is slim to none, due to the traditional way in which such selections are made. However, it doesn't really matter all that much whether the President is a young man in his twenties (as with Joseph Smith), or a much older man. God has always chosen his prophets based on other considerations than age. Take the long biblical and Book of Mormon view, and then come back with a more germane question, Jim.
Stone holm Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 The likelihood is slim to none, due to the traditional way in which such selections are made. However, it doesn't really matter all that much whether the President is a young man in his twenties (as with Joseph Smith), or a much older man. God has always chosen his prophets based on other considerations than age. Take the long biblical and Book of Mormon view, and then come back with a more germane question, Jim.True. But, if you take the long view, you have some problems because what you see, or rather don't see, is a structural system which pretty much guarantees that a prophet will be a certain age. Age is only important when you think of certain probabilities, and the probability in this case is an older man who comes from the internal elites...which favours conservativism (maintenance of the status quo). Which I think is what he was suggesting. 1
Gray Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 True. But, if you take the long view, you have some problems because what you see, or rather don't see, is a structural system which pretty much guarantees that a prophet will be a certain age. Age is only important when you think of certain probabilities, and the probability in this case is an older man who comes from the internal elites...which favours conservativism (maintenance of the status quo). Which I think is what he was suggesting. On the other hand, the problem with choosing a younger man to be prophet is that you end up with a single person leading the church for many decades. There are at least some differences from prophet to prophet.
jkwilliams Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 On the other hand, the problem with choosing a younger man to be prophet is that you end up with a single person leading the church for many decades. There are at least some differences from prophet to prophet. Presidents Grant, G.A. Smith, McKay, and Joseph Fielding Smith were called at young ages (late 20s or early 30), but only Presidents Grant and McKay had long tenures (27 years and 19 years, respectively). President Hinckley was 51 when called as an apostle and was church president for 13 years. President Monson was 37 and has been president for 7 years. So, I don't know that one can say that calling a younger man means you end up with a long tenure.
Robert F. Smith Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 True. But, if you take the long view, you have some problems because what you see, or rather don't see, is a structural system which pretty much guarantees that a prophet will be a certain age. Age is only important when you think of certain probabilities, and the probability in this case is an older man who comes from the internal elites...which favours conservativism (maintenance of the status quo). Which I think is what he was suggesting.I agree, but that still doesn't get to the heart of the matter: Would we be as well served by a system without structure in which the company of the prophets (say the ecstatic prophets encountered by Saul in I Sam 10:10-12) exists fully outside the religious establishment as well as outside the monarchical or civil establishment -- when and where there are such polities -- or in which the prophet is the established and towering controller (Moses, Samuel, Brigham Young)? When the prophet Nathan comes to King David, and when Jeremiah comes to a king of Judah, they do not represent temple or religious establishment. They may be old or young, rich or poor. No matter. The call pattern is still the same, and the burden is to speak on behalf of God, and at the same time to bargain with God on behalf of the Congregation of Israel. Specific assignments vary, and circumstances vary as well. In this case, the LDS Church is a large, coherent structure with a specific assignment to prepare the Earth for the last days and arrival of our Lord and Savior. Several offices are combined into one man, who is not only a prophet, but is also the CEO of a huge religious establishment. Temples and meeting houses must be built, the Gospel preached as widely as possible, and 144,000 high priests ready to perform very specific functions. God's house is a house of order, and the Saints of the Last Days must be ready for that coming great convocation -- the Banquet of Salvation on the figurative High Mountain. This is a cosmic endeavor and God can certainly work with men of great age and experience. 2
iWriteStuff Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Yes, I see that you posted that long and perceptive Nibley quote in your post #249. It is from chapter 4 of Lehi in the Desert. However, the problem is that Hugh Nibley is making the claim that the darkness is primarily metaphorical (and in the Improvement Era, no less, the official magazine of the Melchizedek Priesthood), while at the same time you are not opting for a similarly figurative meaning for the phrase "called of God." Unless I misunderstand you, in which case my abject apology.I apologize for the length of the quote - it seemed to me like it would not have been doing it justice had I shortened it. I wasn't making any comparison between Lamanite skin color and ethnically diverse apostles. I believe I mentioned that the quote was unrelated to the topic of discussion, just one of those things I had stumbled upon that caused me to re-evaluate some assumptions I'd made about the Book of Mormon. I'm not even 100% sure he's right about the "darkness" being more a cultural thing, and I doubt anyone can prove it one way or the other. Suffice it to say it was thought provoking to me and I felt like sharing.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 16, 2015 Author Posted October 16, 2015 Four days ago, I said I would be locking this thread by Friday, allowing folks to wrap up current conversations. I am now making good on that pledge with thanks to those who have participated.
Scott Lloyd Posted November 5, 2015 Author Posted November 5, 2015 Do you know when should be looking for your article? sounds interesting! Well, I suppose I had better write it then. We are running them in order of seniority of the new Brethren. So Elder Rasband will be next weekend, then Elder Stevenson and finally Elder Renlund.My article has just appeared online. As there was some interest expressed in seeing it, I am unlocking this thread to provide a link to it. 1
Duncan Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 My article has just appeared online. As there was some interest expressed in seeing it, I am unlocking this thread to provide a link to it. Thank you! well written!
Kyle Kenley Kopitke Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 They were Called of God, and by God, through His Living Prophet. He has HIs way, and ways, which are higher than our Earthly perspectives. How Blessed we are to have Living Oracles as Prophets and Apostles walking among us and giving us guidance in these Latter-Days.
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