Mormonmaniac Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 Do you really think the Church doesn't already have a plan ready to go? Breaking the connection with BSA has been talked about for years.I was a scoutmaster the last time this was in the court's a decade ago. The church came out with a new revamped DOG that in many ways mirrored the scout program. They did away with it though after the BSA stabilized and the court's settled the issues. So, I already know they have a plan, fully developed, tried and tested, waiting to go immediately at the call of the prophets.
carbon dioxide Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 If the Church does institute a program to replace scouts, I would like to see more emphasis on skills and education on things that they can use in the future like budgeting and finance. Develop computer skills, cooking, gun safety, and other things they actually will use through their life. Things like archery are nice but pretty useless when one becomes an adult for 99.9% of the population. 3
strappinglad Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 There is a fine line ( well, maybe not so fine ) between providing an opportunity for the Spirit to work in the lives of the youth , and trying to manufacture a spiritual " experience " . Some people are not good at subtle or nuance or tact or... Creating a program designed to ' give' a testimony to the youth smacks too much of psychological manipulation and I, for one, would be opposed. Of course , that is likely that one cynical bone I have acting up on account of the change in weather. The suggestions about service etc. I am on board with. 3
6EQUJ5 Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 It has been publicly confirmed that the Church of Jesus Christ is considering ending its century-old association with the Scouting movement and designing an international program to replace it. While the decision is by no means settled yet, in the event that it does happen, this thread is an invitation for suggestions as to what such a program might look like. I hesitated to use the expression "think outside the box" as that has become cliche, but I can't immediately think of any other imagery that adequately conveys the idea: Don't be bound by the idea that the replacement must resemble the Scouting movement in every -- or even in any -- respect. Let your imagination work. What core values need to be fostered? What elements of Scouting should be discarded as no longer relevant to today's needs (do youth still need to know how to tie various kinds of knots, for example)? Above all, should the new program involve girls as well as boys, with comparable access to training, activities, funding, etc.? To spark some ideas, I present this link to a blog post I found, emphasizing that I am not endorsing it in any respect, merely presenting it as grist for thought. Thoughts? Suggestions? Considerations? This kind of ark-steadying is unfortunate. When it comes to matters of such great importance to our youth, we should "wait on the Lord" in faith rather than try and direct His servants with our own speculations. Revelation with come through the proper channels and at the proper time.
rockpond Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 I was a scoutmaster the last time this was in the court's a decade ago. The church came out with a new revamped DOG that in many ways mirrored the scout program. They did away with it though after the BSA stabilized and the court's settled the issues. So, I already know they have a plan, fully developed, tried and tested, waiting to go immediately at the call of the prophets.Are you referring to the updated Duty to God program that was rolled out in the early 2000's? And then updated again a few years back? We used it heavily when I was YM pres back in 2004-2005 timeframe. We still use it today.
rockpond Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 This kind of ark-steadying is unfortunate. When it comes to matters of such great importance to our youth, we should "wait on the Lord" in faith rather than try and direct His servants with our own speculations. Revelation with come through the proper channels and at the proper time.Because no church program has ever started at the ward level and worked its way up? 3
Scott Lloyd Posted August 4, 2015 Author Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) Because no church program has ever started at the ward level and worked its way up?Hey, rockpond, a red-letter day! I wholeheartedly agree with you on a post! I have my suspicions about the post by 6EQ, however. It strikes me more as contrived parody than anything else.You're right, though. Pretty much all of the Church auxiliaries -- Sunday School, Primary, Relief Society, Young Men and Young Women -- started as local initiatives and eventually gained Churchwide acceptance and adoptionEven seminary began as one stake's experiment at Granite High School in Salt Lake City. Edited August 4, 2015 by Scott Lloyd
rockpond Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 Hey, rockpond, a red-letter day! I wholeheartedly agree with you on a post!I have my suspicions about the post by 6EQ, however. It strikes me more as contrived parody than anything else. Good point... it could have been parody. Always happy when we agree on something!
Mormonmaniac Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 Are you referring to the updated Duty to God program that was rolled out in the early 2000's? And then updated again a few years back? We used it heavily when I was YM pres back in 2004-2005 timeframe. We still use it today.Yep. That was the program at that time that was there to replace scouting if the church walked away from it.
rockpond Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 Yep. That was the program at that time that was there to replace scouting if the church walked away from it. The Duty to God program is supposed to be used (at least here in the US) in tandem with the scouting program. Not in place of it. I know that a lot of members felt that the "beefing up" of the DtG requirements early in the 2000's was to set it up as a replacement for Scouting. But I never heard that from any official source.
Mormonmaniac Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) The DTG had many of the same mirrored elements in it. Whether the church said anything about it or not, it was put out at the same time that the church was set to leave BSA dependant on outcome of court ruling at that time. Edited August 4, 2015 by Mormonmaniac
Scott Lloyd Posted August 4, 2015 Author Posted August 4, 2015 There is a fine line ( well, maybe not so fine ) between providing an opportunity for the Spirit to work in the lives of the youth , and trying to manufacture a spiritual " experience " . Some people are not good at subtle or nuance or tact or... Creating a program designed to ' give' a testimony to the youth smacks too much of psychological manipulation and I, for one, would be opposed. Of course , that is likely that one cynical bone I have acting up on account of the change in weather. The suggestions about service etc. I am on board with.There may be a fine line, but just because a thing is well thought out, planned and executed doesn't mean it's a manufactured spiritual experienc. A genuine spiritual experience is by definition not manufactured anyway.
Scott Lloyd Posted August 4, 2015 Author Posted August 4, 2015 Good point... it could have been parody. Always happy when we agree on something!I checked his posting history. He has been suspected before of trolling. fwiw.
Paddy Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 We got out of scouting in Australia a few decades ago. In the 80's if I recall correctly. We run the duty to god program. It is more guidelines than a program which gives us the flexibility to taylor it to the needs of our youth. My only issue is that it is poorly funded. I think the church would benefit from locally organised programs they are not proscriptive so it can taylor to the needs of individual kids.
Avatar4321 Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 I don't see what's wrong with ranks or badges. I liked earning them as a youth. I don't see what's wrong with uniforms too. Especially since every ward I've ever been in has provided help for those who struggled financially.I think we should encourage more foreign language training in any program. If we are creating a new organization we could call ourselves pioneering or something along the line. Honor our heritage while teaching and experiencing.We could also reach out to other churches and religions help them adapt the programs for their use as well.If the Lord wants us to change our affiliations with the scouts I will be sad but I would hope we can become a more Zion like people for doing so.
Kenngo1969 Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 I checked his posting history. He has been suspected before of trolling. fwiw. Did you get Kevin Christensen's permission before using the abbreviation "FWIW"? I believe he has it copyrighted. P.S.: FWIW © Kevin Christensen, used by permission. (Well, OK: I didn't really get permission, but you know that old saying about it being easier to ask for forgiveness than to get permission! )
Kenngo1969 Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 As I believe was alluded to earlier in the thread, we could always return to our own roots. http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2009/08/20/master-m-men-and-golden-gleaners/
6EQUJ5 Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 Because no church program has ever started at the ward level and worked its way up? When we wait faithfully upon the Lord these programs come down through the correct channels. Any program that has "worked its way up" would have been revealed and passed down given enough faith and time. When we seek to counel the bretheren and advocate for the needs of members we are facing the wrong way. It is our duty to follow the directions of our leaders. Not to counsel them on this or that program.
strappinglad Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 When we seek to counel the bretheren and advocate for the needs of members we are facing the wrong way. It is our duty to follow the directions of our leaders. Not to counsel them on this or that program. I suppose there is no need for a ward council then. No input from members required. Counseling on doctrine is unadvisable . Counseling on policy and practice ,when done respectfully, can be helpful to leaders.
Gray Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 Hey, rockpond, a red-letter day! I wholeheartedly agree with you on a post!I have my suspicions about the post by 6EQ, however. It strikes me more as contrived parody than anything else. That's what I thought too
Scott Lloyd Posted August 4, 2015 Author Posted August 4, 2015 When we wait faithfully upon the Lord these programs come down through the correct channels. Any program that has "worked its way up" would have been revealed and passed down given enough faith and time.When we seek to counel the bretheren and advocate for the needs of members we are facing the wrong way. It is our duty to follow the directions of our leaders. Not to counsel them on this or that program.Do not feed the troll.
rockpond Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 I don't see what's wrong with ranks or badges. I liked earning them as a youth. I don't see what's wrong with uniforms too. Especially since every ward I've ever been in has provided help for those who struggled financially.I think we should encourage more foreign language training in any program.If we are creating a new organization we could call ourselves pioneering or something along the line. Honor our heritage while teaching and experiencing.We could also reach out to other churches and religions help them adapt the programs for their use as well.If the Lord wants us to change our affiliations with the scouts I will be sad but I would hope we can become a more Zion like people for doing so. Are you anticipating many teenage boys who will want to wear a uniform and earn advancements for an organization called "Pioneering"? It's not that I think your idea lacks merit... just that some things look better on paper.
Gray Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 I was a scout against my will. I didn't really enjoy the experience, I didn't care about the merit badges, and I wasn't interested in the activities. I was told at the time that earning Eagle would look good on your resume. Maybe that's true for entry level jobs. Putting that on a professional resume would make you look unsophisticated. Not because you were a Boy Scout, but because you would put something like that on a resume. Anyway, I would think just making the youth activities fun and engaging would be a suitable replacement for anything the BSA has to offer. 3
sethpayne Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 I have to admit I wasn't a fan of scouting. I was more interested in books than camping. Although I do recognize the value of some of the skills I was taught as a Scout. So perhaps any new program could have a "core" which includes important things like first aid, basic survival, and perhaps even food storage. And then there could be several choices for boys/girls interested in the arts, the sciences, humanities, etc... 2
Scott Lloyd Posted August 4, 2015 Author Posted August 4, 2015 I have to admit I wasn't a fan of scouting. I was more interested in books than camping. Although I do recognize the value of some of the skills I was taught as a Scout. So perhaps any new program could have a "core" which includes important things like first aid, basic survival, and perhaps even food storage. And then there could be several choices for boys/girls interested in the arts, the sciences, humanities, etc...This makes sense. I would hope that any replacement would have more in the way of flexibility in appealing to interests than did Scouting -- at least the way it has been administered in LDS units. 1
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