Life Is Too Hard

[stemelbow]

Sitting in Gospel Doctrine yesterday thoughts came and went. We spoke about the parable of the talents, at least in part.

So one person given 5 talents.

One given 2

and

One given 1 little measly talent.

The story, it was reasoned, is to tell us we must use our talents, like people who sing well need to sing in front of people, in order to get more talents. But if you sing well, there is always someone who sings well too, or as is often the case, sings better. So it's reasonable and necessary to step aside sometimes to allow room for another to sing. Even for those who sing the best they too must squelch their talent for another to step up and sing.

I mention singing because that is the thing that everyone in the Church, it seems, references when we talk about talent and not hiding your light under a bushel. But apply it to anything else.

The charismatic individual, for instance. You must continue to, as a very charismatic friend of mine says who also happens to be a good singer, put on a face and a show for people. You have to consistently have your switch turned to the on position, says he, for fear of being less than is needed, hiding your light under a bushel or burying your talent in the ground.

The difficulty in play is we're all a little less than we could be. We all, perhaps, shine at some moments in regards to our talents, and at others, we'd rather take a back seat, step aside feeling a bit insecure as others may be better than us in some particular strength of ours, or have moments of selfishness, or apathy.

So we all represent all three, it seems to me, of the talent receivers. At any given moment we are out their seeking to grow our talents and at other moments we are burying them in the earth.

my thoughts are, with these teachings, we are forever to be uncomfortable, not knowing our standing before God. That is maybe a good thing. But it also makes our life hard. We hear many will be called and few chosen. Those not chosen, the many who are not, will not be chosen because they have their heart too close to the things of the world. And yet, in some measure, we all have our hearts on things of this world, it seems to me. The line of our expectations are not clear. We don't know and will, perhaps, never know our individual final resting place.

Life is gray, our perspective is clearly gray, yet we often speak in terms that are black and white. Our conversation in Church feels superficial and wrong-headed because of that, largely.

Thoughts?

[The Nehor]

Why should we not know our standing before God?

[stemelbow]

Why should we not know our standing before God?

I don't know if we should not, it just feels like, to me, that we simply do not and probably can not.

But if it so be that we should not, perhaps it's good in that it keeps us feeling like we need to repent and do more, constantly, never stopping until He calls us home.

[The Nehor]

I don't know if we should not, it just feels like, to me, that we simply do not and probably can not.But if it so be that we should not, perhaps it's good in that it keeps us feeling like we need to repent and do more, constantly, never stopping until He calls us home.

That sounds exhausting. I would rather just know my standing rather then live a perpetual anxiety attack. Have you tried asking?

[Storm Rider]

There is never a time when only one person sings and the rest of the world stays silent.  The objective is not to be the center of attention, but to use the gifts, talents, God has given us.  Some of us can be patient, some faithful, some disciplined, some strong...it takes all working together to become the body of Christ that functions properly. 

 

All are needed regardless of how many gifts they have or they gain.  Serve each other valiantly and we serve our God. 

[stemelbow]

That sounds exhausting. I would rather just know my standing rather then live a perpetual anxiety attack. Have you tried asking?

I agree, the Nehor. So how do we either resolve or feel comfort where we are?

Any asking is a space in time. I think I relate to folks like Enos ("Enos, thy sins are forgiven thee, and thou shalt be blessed") at various times. But then I go and sin some more, making me realize final judgment did not happen upon feeling my struggling in prayer resolved in being forgiven and blessed. It was a moment, ti seems, to give me confidence and peace. But I don't feel peace and confident continually and don't know that any does or can.

[thesometimesaint]

Desiderata

Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.

Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be critical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.

© Max Ehrmann 1927

[The Nehor]

I agree, the Nehor. So how do we either resolve or feel comfort where we are?

Get the Holy Ghost so we can feel it.

[stemelbow]

Get the Holy Ghost so we can feel it.

That's just more of the same. As EQ members suggested yesterday, and they seem correct enough, no one has the Spirit with them all the time. Even the seemingly most gifted of members does something sinful that chases the influence of the Holy Ghost away. You seem to be suggesting we need to feel the holy Ghost all the time. But to achieve that we need to never chase Him away.

It seems to me, we either have to accept that our life is nothing but chasing that which we can never achieve, and that in itself is very good for us eternally, or we are thinking about it all wrong.

[The Nehor]

That's just more of the same. As EQ members suggested yesterday, and they seem correct enough, no one has the Spirit with them all the time. Even the seemingly most gifted of members does something sinful that chases the influence of the Holy Ghost away. You seem to be suggesting we need to feel the holy Ghost all the time. But to achieve that we need to never chase Him away.It seems to me, we either have to accept that our life is nothing but chasing that which we can never achieve, and that in itself is very good for us eternally, or we are thinking about it all wrong.

If you sin and drive it away repent so it comes back (that is justifiable anxiety) and then all is good again.

[stemelbow]

If you sin and drive it away repent so it comes back (that is justifiable anxiety) and then all is good again.

Well, then you sin again. Sometimes, as we discussed in EQ yesterday, we chase Him away without realizing it and He is gone for a while until one day somehow out of the blue, you adjust your attitude or whatever it is, and He comes back. But then sin comes back and you chase Him away. While gone you realize again, you could end up being he who is told to depart from God, for He never knew you.

[The Nehor]

Well, then you sin again. Sometimes, as we discussed in EQ yesterday, we chase Him away without realizing it and He is gone for a while until one day somehow out of the blue, you adjust your attitude or whatever it is, and He comes back. But then sin comes back and you chase Him away. While gone you realize again, you could end up being he who is told to depart from God, for He never knew you.

I would have a hard time not noticing. I screwed up last night and lost the Holy Ghost and my dreams were nightmares and I still feel unsettled.

[Nofear]

Lectures on Faith, lecture 6, has some relevant commentary that expresses some thoughts held by some of the early brethren. One short snippet, but the whole section is worth a read (whether or not one agrees with it).

 

 

4 Such was and always will be the situation of the saints of God, that unless they have an actual knowledge that the course that they are pursuing is according to the will of God, they will grow weary in their minds and faint; for such has been and always will be the opposition in the hearts of unbelievers and those that know not God, against the pure and unadulterated religion of heaven, (the only thing which ensures eternal life,) that they will persecute, to the uttermost, all that worship God according to his revelations, receive the truth in the love of it, and submit themselves to be guided and directed by his will, and drive them to such extremities that nothing short of an actual knowledge of their being the favorites of heaven, and of their having embraced that order of things which God has established for the redemption of man, will enable them to exercise that confidence in him necessary for them to overcome the world, and obtain that crown of glory which is laid up for them that fear God.

[danielwoods]

It seems to me, we either have to accept that our life is nothing but chasing that which we can never achieve, and that in itself is very good for us eternally, or we are thinking about it all wrong.

Jesus said, "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid." (Jn. 14:27)

Your description sounds like peace as the world gives. You only have it for a little while. The peace that Jesus gives us doesn't leave.

[The Nehor]

I would have a hard time not noticing. I screwed up last night and lost the Holy Ghost and my dreams were nightmares and I still feel unsettled.

Update: I got better.

[stemelbow]

Jesus said, "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid." (Jn. 14:27)

Your description sounds like peace as the world gives. You only have it for a little while. The peace that Jesus gives us doesn't leave.

Are you saying the disciples had peace the rest of their lives? No chance of intermittent torment, or pain?

[Mormonmaniac]

Sitting in Gospel Doctrine yesterday thoughts came and went. We spoke about the parable of the talents, at least in part.

So one person given 5 talents.

One given 2

and

One given 1 little measly talent.

The story, it was reasoned, is to tell us we must use our talents, like people who sing well need to sing in front of people, in order to get more talents. But if you sing well, there is always someone who sings well too, or as is often the case, sings better. So it's reasonable and necessary to step aside sometimes to allow room for another to sing. Even for those who sing the best they too must squelch their talent for another to step up and sing.

I mention singing because that is the thing that everyone in the Church, it seems, references when we talk about talent and not hiding your light under a bushel. But apply it to anything else.

The charismatic individual, for instance. You must continue to, as a very charismatic friend of mine says who also happens to be a good singer, put on a face and a show for people. You have to consistently have your switch turned to the on position, says he, for fear of being less than is needed, hiding your light under a bushel or burying your talent in the ground.

The difficulty in play is we're all a little less than we could be. We all, perhaps, shine at some moments in regards to our talents, and at others, we'd rather take a back seat, step aside feeling a bit insecure as others may be better than us in some particular strength of ours, or have moments of selfishness, or apathy.

So we all represent all three, it seems to me, of the talent receivers. At any given moment we are out their seeking to grow our talents and at other moments we are burying them in the earth.

my thoughts are, with these teachings, we are forever to be uncomfortable, not knowing our standing before God. That is maybe a good thing. But it also makes our life hard. We hear many will be called and few chosen. Those not chosen, the many who are not, will not be chosen because they have their heart too close to the things of the world. And yet, in some measure, we all have our hearts on things of this world, it seems to me. The line of our expectations are not clear. We don't know and will, perhaps, never know our individual final resting place.

Life is gray, our perspective is clearly gray, yet we often speak in terms that are black and white. Our conversation in Church feels superficial and wrong-headed because of that, largely.

Thoughts?

The parable isnt about our talents or gifts we have like singing or painting. That much must be understood. The parable is about our individual stewardships the Lord has given us to save ourselves and others into his Kingdom. Its about missionary work, obeying the commandments and working hard to build up the kingdom of God on earth. When properly understood like that it all makes sense.

[JLHPROF]

Lectures on Faith, lecture 6, has some relevant commentary that expresses some thoughts held by some of the early brethren. One short snippet, but the whole section is worth a read (whether or not one agrees with it).

 

I do agree and it is worth the read.

I was about to post the same quote - ", that unless they have an actual knowledge that the course that they are pursuing is according to the will of God, they will grow weary in their minds and faint;".

[stemelbow]

The parable isnt about our talents or gifts we have like singing or painting. That much must be understood. The parable is about our individual stewardships the Lord has given us to save ourselves and others into his Kingdom. Its about missionary work, obeying the commandments and working hard to build up the kingdom of God on earth. When properly understood like that it all makes sense.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I think the parable, as was yesterday, is mostly understood as members being given talents and skills and they must utilize those, expand those in order to build the kingdom. But you're application works as well.

The point of the OP seems to be on the table no matter which way you prefer to think of it. After all, as much as we throw our hats in the rings, each of us will set aside some of that Church work for other things.

[stemelbow]

Lectures on Faith, lecture 6, has some relevant commentary that expresses some thoughts held by some of the early brethren. One short snippet, but the whole section is worth a read (whether or not one agrees with it).

and drive them to such extremities that nothing short of an actual knowledge of their being the favorites of heaven, and of their having embraced that order of things which God has established for the redemption of man, will enable them to exercise that confidence in him necessary for them to overcome the world, and obtain that crown of glory which is laid up for them that fear God.

Nothing short of an actual knowledge of their being favorites of heaven? Who feels that way? Seems like the wrong approach to me. How would one justify knowing they are a favorite in heaven? And think God not have favorites as the NT suggests?

[stemelbow]

I do agree and it is worth the read.

I was about to post the same quote - ", that unless they have an actual knowledge that the course that they are pursuing is according to the will of God, they will grow weary in their minds and faint;".

Is this, then, the real cause for apostates and, say, those members who feel less confident in the Church's pursuits perhaps even offering criticisms in the Church's aims in some cases?

So those of us who support SSM, for instance?

[thesometimesaint]

Is this, then, the real cause for apostates and, say, those members who feel less confident in the Church's pursuits perhaps even offering criticisms in the Church's aims in some cases?

So those of us who support SSM, for instance?

 

You can support SSM and still be a faithful member of the Church. But don't try pass it off as doctrine of the Church.

[The Nehor]

Nothing short of an actual knowledge of their being favorites of heaven? Who feels that way? Seems like the wrong approach to me. How would one justify knowing they are a favorite in heaven? And think God not have favorites as the NT suggests?

Being redeemed does not make you a teacher's pet. It just means God finds your offering acceptable and smiles on you.

Then Cain gets annoyed and kills you. Then you get eternal life.

[The Nehor]

Is this, then, the real cause for apostates and, say, those members who feel less confident in the Church's pursuits perhaps even offering criticisms in the Church's aims in some cases?So those of us who support SSM, for instance?

A good question we should all ask ourselves.....

.....but the answer is yes.

[danielwoods]

Are you saying the disciples had peace the rest of their lives? No chance of intermittent torment, or pain?

 

The peace that Jesus is describing is inner peace, that comes from the knowledge that our sins are forgiven. Not just the one's we know about and repented of, but all of them. You don't think that God relies on our feeble memory and ability to repent of things only we are aware of do you? No. The peace that passes all understanding rests on the fact that God knows all our sins, past present and future, that we aren't even aware of and forgives us. 

 

There were numerous occasions where Peter and Paul were in prison, yet they were singing to God and rejoicing. Our peace doesn't come from our circumstances, rather from God who doesn't change.