Gervin Posted May 19, 2015 Posted May 19, 2015 and for the Bible too, here is what they say I never said there aren't anachronisms in the Bible. I wanted proof that there are "thousands." Do you have another 1,800 or so that you can provide?
TheSkepticChristian Posted May 19, 2015 Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) I never said there aren't anachronisms in the Bible. I wanted proof that there are "thousands." Thousands - "(usually thousands) informal An unspecified large number" http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/thousand Edited May 19, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian
Gervin Posted May 19, 2015 Posted May 19, 2015 Thousands - "(usually thousands) informal An unspecified large number" http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/thousandYou have a great command of the internet. Perhaps Robert F. Smith will provide a source for his statement.
TheSkepticChristian Posted May 19, 2015 Posted May 19, 2015 You have a great command of the internet. Perhaps Robert F. Smith will provide a source for his statement. y do u believe in the bible but not in bom?
PeterPear Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 The Jaredites are a dynastic lineage described in the Book of Mormon and not a unique nation or civilization. Your argument starts with a false premise. The Book of Mormon disagrees with you per this statement by the Lord and Creator of the Universe: 43 And there will I bless thee and thy seed, and raise up unto me of thy seed, and of the seed of thy brother, and they who shall go with thee, a great nation. And there shall be none greater than the nation which I will raise up unto me of thy seed, upon all the face of the earth. And thus I will do unto thee because this long time ye have cried unto me. But the rest of your argument is really sophisticated. So it will appeal to many who don't know the scriptures.
PeterPear Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 A Hill Cumorah. To the best of my knowledge we have no idea of what Cumorah means or how many Cumorahs there are. Seriously? The Hill Cumorah was named after the Land of Cumorah. There was only one of each. "..we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents around about the hill Cumorah" And Mormon wrote an epistle to the King of the Lamanites desiring:that he would grant unto us that we might gather together our people unto the land of Cumorah, by a hill which was called Cumorah, and there we could give them battle. It's a good thing that the King of the Lamanites didn't mistake which hill Cumorah he allowed Mormon and his people to gather at. But I understand. You don't know the scriptures very well. Try studying them.
Robert F. Smith Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 ............................... To the best of my knowledge we have no idea of what Cumorah means..............................It is quite possible that Cumorah is formed from hypothetical Hebrew *qûm-ʼôrâ “Arise! Shine!” The same root words are used similarly at Isaiah 60:1 qûmî ʼôrî *9&! */&8 “Arise, Shine!” One can even see the source of possible word-play at Isaiah 26:19 “as dew refreshes plants, so the light [ʼôrōt] of God shall refresh those who arise [yĕqûmûn] from the dead.” There are some other possible etymologies, but this is the one I favor. 3
Robert F. Smith Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) I never said there aren't anachronisms in the Bible. I wanted proof that there are "thousands." Do you have another 1,800 or so that you can provide? Surely you can see from the examples provided by TheSkepticChristian that one could compose an endless list of thousands upon thousands of such anachronisms -- faulty as some of them may be, since the anachronism is often in the eye of the beholder. As a matter of fact, I have a list of thousands of such so-called anachronisms in a book which I am about ready to publish. However, such a document is too large to simply send out as a copy via email, so you must await publication. I have been gathering such anachronisms since the early 1980s, and sent an early version of my list to several people, including Jerald & Sandra Tanner (whom I had met and gone to church with). The Tanners had nothing to say to me in reply. What could they say? My list of biblical anachronisms made their short list of Book of Mormon anachronisms pale into insignificance. Plus, I don't think they knew how to handle anachronisms. There is nothing new about my list, except the lengthy nature of it. See the following: Abelard, Peter (1079-1142), Sic et non (“Yes and No”) (1120); Sic et non: A Critical Edition, Blanche B. Boyer and Richard McKeon, eds. (Univ. of Chicago Press, 1976); sets out opposing scriptural and theological statements, and proposes ways of reconciling such apparently contradictory statements.Archer, Gleason L., II, Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1982).Arndt, William F., Does the Bible Contradict Itself? 5th ed. (St. Louis: Concordia Press, 1955).Arndt, William F., Bible Difficulties & Seeming Contradictions, rev. ed., R. G. Hoerber and W. R. Roehrs, eds. (St. Louis: Concordia Publ., 1987), from Bible Difficulties and Does the Bible Contradict Itself? (1955).Bokovoy, David E., Authoring the Old Testament: Genesis - Deuteronomy (SLC: Kofford Books, 2014).Copan, Paul., Is God a Moral Monster? Making Sense of the Old Testament God (Grand Rapids: Baker, 2011).Doherty, Earl J., The Jesus Puzzle. Did Christianity Begin with a Mythical Christ? Challenging the Existence of an Historical Jesus (Canadian Humanist Pub, 1999).Edwards, P. Wesley, “Bible Errors and Contradictions,” Sept 1, 2004, online at http://www.freethoughtdebater.com/tenbiblecontradictions.htm .Ehrman, Bart D., The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture: The Effect of Early Christological Controversies on the Text of the New Testament (Oxford Univ. Press, 1993). See replies in Daniel B. Wallace, ed., Revisiting the Corruption of the New Testament: Manuscript, Patristic, and Apocryphal Evidence, Text and Canon of the New Testament (Kregel Academic, 2011).Ehrman, Bart D., ed., Lost Scriptures: Books That Did Not Make It Into the New Testament (Oxford Univ. Press, 2003).Ehrman, Bart D., Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the New Testament and Why (N.Y.: HarperSanFrancisco, 2005).Ehrman, Bart D., Forgery and Counterforgery: The Use of Literary Deceit in Early Christian Polemics (Oxford University Press, 2012). Reviewed by Bobby Boylan in Interpreter, 3 (2013):115-118.Evans, Craig A., Noncanonical Writings and New Testament Interpretation (Peabody, Mass.: Hendrickson, 1992), 190-219. Provides about 1500 quotations, allusions, and parallels between the NT and non-canonical sources.Evans, Craig A., and Shemaryahu Talmon, eds., Intertextuality in Honor of James A. Sanders (Leiden: Brill, 1997). Just a sampling to get you started, if you really want to see scads of anachronisms being discussed. Edited May 20, 2015 by Robert F. Smith 2
Robert F. Smith Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 .......................................... Ugh. I'd like to see your high school English grades.That was an atrocious sentence. I'll give you that, Gervin.
rodheadlee Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 It is quite possible that Cumorah is formed from hypothetical Hebrew *qûm-ʼôrâ “Arise! Shine!” The same root words are used similarly at Isaiah 60:1 qûmî ʼôrî *9&! */&8 “Arise, Shine!” One can even see the source of possible word-play at Isaiah 26:19 “as dew refreshes plants, so the light [ʼôrōt] of God shall refresh those who arise [yĕqûmûn] from the dead.” There are some other possible etymologies, but this is the one I favor.Thanks Robert, that is beautiful. 1
rodheadlee Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 Seriously? The Hill Cumorah was named after the Land of Cumorah. There was only one of each. "..we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents around about the hill Cumorah" And Mormon wrote an epistle to the King of the Lamanites desiring:that he would grant unto us that we might gather together our people unto the land of Cumorah, by a hill which was called Cumorah, and there we could give them battle. It's a good thing that the King of the Lamanites didn't mistake which hill Cumorah he allowed Mormon and his people to gather at. But I understand. You don't know the scriptures very well. Try studying them.Seriously, get a clue. 3
mfbukowski Posted May 26, 2015 Posted May 26, 2015 Seriously, get a clue.Another troll. And arrogant too.He won't last. 2
mfbukowski Posted May 26, 2015 Posted May 26, 2015 Your argument starts with a false premise. The Book of Mormon disagrees with you per this statement by the Lord and Creator of the Universe: 43 And there will I bless thee and thy seed, and raise up unto me of thy seed, and of the seed of thy brother, and they who shall go with thee, a great nation. And there shall be none greater than the nation which I will raise up unto me of thy seed, upon all the face of the earth. And thus I will do unto thee because this long time ye have cried unto me. But the rest of your argument is really sophisticated. So it will appeal to many who don't know the scriptures. Uh, notice the FUTURE TENSE.It is a family which is PROMSED to become a nation. 1
hagoth7 Posted May 26, 2015 Posted May 26, 2015 Your argument starts with a false premise. The Book of Mormon disagrees with you per this statement by the Lord and Creator of the Universe: 43 And there will I bless thee and thy seed, and raise up unto me of thy seed, and of the seed of thy brother, and they who shall go with thee, a great nation. And there shall be none greater than the nation which I will raise up unto me of thy seed, upon all the face of the earth. And thus I will do unto thee because this long time ye have cried unto me. But the rest of your argument is really sophisticated. So it will appeal to many who don't know the scriptures. Uh, notice the FUTURE TENSE.It is a family which is PROMSED to become a nation.Thank you mfb, I hadn't noticed this passage in that context before. Quite helpful.
Freedom Posted May 26, 2015 Posted May 26, 2015 So let me get this clear, the Book of Mormon is false because, arguably, it contains anachronisms. The bible may have fewer then the Book of Mormon and is therefore true. Is there an official number of anachronisms a book can have and still be considered true? 2
ksfisher Posted May 26, 2015 Posted May 26, 2015 Is there an official number of anachronisms a book can have and still be considered true? 42 1
mfbukowski Posted May 26, 2015 Posted May 26, 2015 Thank you mfb, I hadn't noticed this passage in that context before. Quite helpful.Thank you mfb, I hadn't noticed this passage in that context before. Quite helpful.And you saying that suddenly gives it new meaning to me as well, because I can guess the direction you might take that idea, having read some of your stuff. Very interesting! Do the dates work? 1
Robert F. Smith Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) ............................... To the best of my knowledge we have no idea of what Cumorah means..............................It is quite possible that Cumorah is formed from hypothetical Hebrew *qûm-ʼôrâ “Arise! Shine!” The same root words are used similarly at Isaiah 60:1 qûmî ʼôrî *9&! */&8 “Arise, Shine!” One can even see the source of possible word-play at Isaiah 26:19 “as dew refreshes plants, so the light [ʼôrōt] of God shall refresh those who arise [yĕqûmûn] from the dead.” There are some other possible etymologies, but this is the one I favor.Here is a rendering of that "Arise, Shine!" phrase presented in context: Peter O'Toole, who thinks that he is Jesus Christ (1972 film "The Ruling Class"), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzbWvmSMiNI . Edited May 31, 2015 by Robert F. Smith
hagoth7 Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) And you saying that suddenly gives it new meaning to me as well, because I can guess the direction you might take that idea, having read some of your stuff. Very interesting! Do the dates work?What dates do you mean?Added: oh, it is a jaredite promise, not a nephite and lamanite one. Interesting. Edited June 8, 2015 by hagoth7
mfbukowski Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 What dates do you mean?Added: oh, it is a jaredite promise, not a nephite and lamanite one. Interesting.I think that some of your theories are about hypothetical Nephites (Jaredites as well?) leaving this continent and returning to the British Isles and I was wondering if those hypothetical dates corresponded to your hypothetical ideas about the British Isles. Or am I totally mixed up?
hagoth7 Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) I think that some of your theories are about hypothetical Nephites (Jaredites as well?) leaving this continent and returning to the British Isles and I was wondering if those hypothetical dates corresponded to your hypothetical ideas about the British Isles. Or am I totally mixed up?That's mostly accurate. However, I actually believe the Nephite settlers and their descendants occupied a more considerable portion of Europe than just the British Isles. (I take it you haven't read any version of the online book.) But I actually hadn't considered the Jaredites into that prophetic mix before noticing the promise you commented on here in this thread. Based on that promise, on your helpful comment, and on a few historical findings that I've come across in the last few days, my initial view might be in the process of expanding. Edited June 9, 2015 by hagoth7
mfbukowski Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 That's mostly accurate. However, I actually believe the Nephite settlers and their descendants occupied a more considerable portion of Europe than just the British Isles. (I take it you haven't read any version of the online book.) But I actually hadn't considered the Jaredites into that prophetic mix before noticing the promise you commented on here in this thread. Based on that promise, on your helpful comment, and on a few historical findings that I've come across in the last few days, my initial view might be in the process of expanding.Glad to have helped! Keep my posted!
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