Any Awesome Insights On D&c 86

[Mormonmaniac]

Depends on what you're talking about.

 

Given the three kingdoms and the many mansions referred to in the scriptures, there does appear to be areas where different levels of commitment or involvement are expected.

So, perhaps different amounts of fruit yielded as wheat eh? Still all the children of God in the end. So, perhaps, it really is a two part separation of separating the saints from the devils.

[Calm]

That is what I said above in post #45, in the end one makes a choice.

[JLHPROF]

Thank you all for the insights so far, esp. on the Wheat and Tares.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on verses 8-11?  Specifically, what do you think was meant by:

• the priesthood hath continued through the lineage of your fathers
• lawful heirs, according to the flesh, and have been hid from the world
• your life and the priesthood have remained, and must needs remain through you and your lineage until the restoration of all things

These three points seem particularly deep/interesting, especially considering this was speaking to people in 1832 whose ancestors didn't hold the priesthood (at least since the days of the Apostles).  How does priesthood remain with our ancestors if they were not ordained?  How does this connect to Abraham seeking the blessings of the fathers?

Any ideas?

[Tacenda]

Don't forget that tares are not in any way useful as a food crop or anything else besides burning (at least in the parable) so these are not otherwise decent people that have lost belief or for some reason haven't had a spiritual witness or even the not so decent people that on lie for profit on occasion but don't go out of the way to hurt others intentionally.

From the parable, these are those who are there for no other reason but to cause harm or deprive others of spiritual life.

Always the voice of reason, thank you!

[Bobbieaware]

Thank you all for the insights so far, esp. on the Wheat and Tares.

Does anyone have any thoughts on verses 8-11? Specifically, what do you think was meant by:

• the priesthood hath continued through the lineage of your fathers
• lawful heirs, according to the flesh, and have been hid from the world
• your life and the priesthood have remained, and must needs remain through you and your lineage until the restoration of all things

These three points seem particularly deep/interesting, especially considering this was speaking to people in 1832 whose ancestors didn't hold the priesthood (at least since the days of the Apostles). How does priesthood remain with our ancestors if they were not ordained? How does this connect to Abraham seeking the blessings of the fathers?

Any ideas?

It has been said that the prophet Joseph Smith was a pure-blooded Ephriamite. If this is the case, then it would also be likely the majority of the early LDS priesthood holders were also Ephriamites as they, like Joseph Smith, were also primarily of Brittish descent. And although the prophesied leaders of the Lord's restored church of the latter-days are called Gentiles in the Book of Mormon, the fact is that though they are called Gentiles this doesn't negate the fact that they would actually be literal descendants of the Partiarch Joseph through Ephriam, and would therefore be of the blood of Israel. And this is precisely what we learn in the Book of Mormon.

Keeping all the aforesaid in mind, now go to 2 Nephi 3 and read the entire chapter and you will plainly see that among "the fathers" of Joseph Smith who held the right to the Melchizedek priesthood was Joseph of old, who was none other than the father of Ephriam. So rather than Doctrine and Covenants 86 having reference to a continuos linear father to son descent of the priesthood to Joseph Smith and the other brethren, in this case the right to the priesthood is by "lieage," again not by continuous lineal descent from father to son as was the case with the Aaronic Priesthood. I repeat, 2 Nephi 3 holds the key to the meaning of those later verses in D&C 86.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Bobbieaware

[Tacenda]

Depends on what you're talking about.

Given the three kingdoms and the many mansions referred to in the scriptures, there does appear to be areas where different levels of commitment or involvement are expected.

The movie "Defending Your Life" with Meryl Streep and Albert Brooks, seems like it's a close match to LDS's levels in heaven. I remember watching and thinking that maybe an LDS person produced or wrote the movie.

[hagoth7]

It has been said that the prophet Joseph Smith was a pure-blooded Ephriamite. If this is the case, then it would also be likely the majority of the early LDS priesthood holders were also Ephriamites as they, like Joseph Smith, were also primarily of Brittish descent. And although the prophesied leaders of the Lord's restored church of the latter-days are called Gentiles in the Book of Mormon, the fact is that though they are called Gentiles this doesn't negate the fact that they would actually be literal descendants of the Partiarch Joseph through Ephriam, and would therefore be of the blood of Israel. And this is precisely what we learn in the Book of Mormon.

Keeping all the aforesaid in mind, now go to 2 Nephi 3 and read the entire chapter and you will plainly see that among "the fathers" of Joseph Smith who held the right to the Melchizedek priesthood was Joseph of old, who was none other than the father of Ephriam.

 

For further insight, consider the last verses of that chapter.  My brother suggested that those verses tell us that the prophet of the restoration would descend from Lehi's son Joseph. (Or from among his seed.) There are considerable implications from that insight.

[Bobbieaware]

Thank you all for the insights so far, esp. on the Wheat and Tares.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on verses 8-11?  Specifically, what do you think was meant by:

• the priesthood hath continued through the lineage of your fathers
• lawful heirs, according to the flesh, and have been hid from the world
• your life and the priesthood have remained, and must needs remain through you and your lineage until the restoration of all things

These three points seem particularly deep/interesting, especially considering this was speaking to people in 1832 whose ancestors didn't hold the priesthood (at least since the days of the Apostles).  How does priesthood remain with our ancestors if they were not ordained?  How does this connect to Abraham seeking the blessings of the fathers?

Any ideas?

What follows is more from the Book of Mormon with regard to ancestry of the inhabitants of the New Jerusalem whom we are told will primarily be descendants of the patriarch Joseph:

4 Behold, Ether saw the days of Christ, and he spake concerning a New Jerusalem upon this land.

5 And he spake also concerning the house of Israel, and the Jerusalem from whence Lehi should come—after it should be destroyed it should be built up again, a holy city unto the Lord; wherefore, it could not be a new Jerusalem for it had been in a time of old; but it should be built up again, and become a holy city of the Lord; and it should be built unto the house of Israel—

6 And that a New Jerusalem should be built up upon this land, unto the remnant of the seed of Joseph, for which things there has been a type.

7 For as Joseph brought his father down into the land of Egypt, even so he died there; wherefore, the Lord brought a remnant of the seed of Joseph out of the land of Jerusalem, that he might be merciful unto the seed of Joseph that they should perish not, even as he was merciful unto the father of Joseph that he should perish not.

8 Wherefore, the remnant of the house of Joseph shall be built upon this land; and it shall be a land of their inheritance; and they shall build up a holy city unto the Lord, like unto the Jerusalem of old; and they shall no more be confounded, until the end come when the earth shall pass away.

9 And there shall be a new heaven and a new earth; and they shall be like unto the old save the old have passed away, and all things have become new.

10 And then cometh the New Jerusalem; and blessed are they who dwell therein, for it is they whose garments are white through the blood of the Lamb; and they are they who are numbered among the remnant of the seed of Joseph, who were of the house of Israel. (Ether 13)

[JLHPROF]

Ok, doing a little more reading.

 

Does D&C 86 disagree with Christ in Matthew 13, or is it providing the connection of the apostles as witnesses of Christ?

 

Christ said:

He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world;

 

D&C 86 says:

Behold, verily I say, the field was the world, and the apostles were the sowers of the seed;

 

And does this connect directly to verse 11 - Therefore, blessed are ye if ye continue in my goodness, a light unto the Gentiles, and through this priesthood, a savior unto my people Israel. The Lord hath said it. Amen.

[Bobbieaware]

Ok, doing a little more reading.

Does D&C 86 disagree with Christ in Matthew 13, or is it providing the connection of the apostles as witnesses of Christ?

Christ said:

He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world;

D&C 86 says:

Behold, verily I say, the field was the world, and the apostles were the sowers of the seed;

And does this connect directly to verse 11 - Therefore, blessed are ye if ye continue in my goodness, a light unto the Gentiles, and through this priesthood, a savior unto my people Israel. The Lord hath said it. Amen.

I see no real disagreement between the two accounts because whether it is Christ who sows the seed or his apostles it is the same. All the apostles do is in the name of Jesus Christ, doing only what Christ would do if he were personally present (by virtue of the priesthood, the apostles are Christ's personal representatives). And the idea of Christ being the sower through the proxy work of his authorized servants does directly connect to verse 11 because...

1 The goodness in the apostles is Christ's goodness, not their own.

2 The light in the apostles is Christ's, not their own.

3 Through the righteous exercise of the priesthood power the apostles become saviors of men. Saviors because the power of the priesthood is Christ's power and not their own.

So in the final analysis it is Christ who performs all the saving work because, as he said in the gospel of John, "without me ye can do NOTHING."

Edited May 9, 2015 by Bobbieaware

[CV75]

Ok, doing a little more reading.

 

Does D&C 86 disagree with Christ in Matthew 13, or is it providing the connection of the apostles as witnesses of Christ?

 

Christ said:

He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world;

 

D&C 86 says:

Behold, verily I say, the field was the world, and the apostles were the sowers of the seed;

 

And does this connect directly to verse 11 - Therefore, blessed are ye if ye continue in my goodness, a light unto the Gentiles, and through this priesthood, a savior unto my people Israel. The Lord hath said it. Amen.

I think there is a connection between the explanation of the parable and the promise given to the followers of Christ (which is part of the word which is sown). He is the original Sower, and His servants are also sowers under His direction. While the parable is mostly about the Apostasy, Restoration and condition of the world in general throughout the last days and unitl the Second Coming, the promise is about the Restoration through the Second Coming and eternal life, and the condition of the righteous priesthood holders (there will never be another Great Apostasy).

Edited May 9, 2015 by CV75

[CV75]

don't know what happened here!

Edited May 9, 2015 by CV75