Senator Posted April 22, 2015 Posted April 22, 2015 Identifying problems isn't complaining.I'm not so sure
ERayR Posted April 22, 2015 Posted April 22, 2015 Please tell me what my POV is? You obviously know. What gives you that idea. I don't have to know what your POV is to know that it is different than that expressed by others.
stemelbow Posted April 22, 2015 Posted April 22, 2015 To you it may be a problem. To others not so much and to still others not at all. Fine by me if people disagree about whether issues and topics present problems or not. But, it's silly to just say all who disagree with me are complainers, which is what your response came off as, to me. Polyandry, racism, MMM are problems to many people, even some of the most faithful from what I've seen. To pretend they never were is pretty unhelpful. 1
Senator Posted April 22, 2015 Posted April 22, 2015 What gives you that idea. I don't have to know what your POV is to know that it is different than that expressed by others. You're such an angel
Senator Posted April 22, 2015 Posted April 22, 2015 Polyandry, racism, MMM are problems to many people, even some of the most faithful from what I've seen. To pretend they never were is pretty unhelpful. Quit complaining
ERayR Posted April 22, 2015 Posted April 22, 2015 You're such an angel It is obvious that you don't know me.
ERayR Posted April 22, 2015 Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) Polyandry, racism, MMM are problems to many people, even some of the most faithful from what I've seen. To pretend they never were is pretty unhelpful. Who is pretending they "never were"? It is just that some don't see them as problems for the Church. Edited April 22, 2015 by ERayR 1
Jeanne Posted April 22, 2015 Posted April 22, 2015 Identifying problems isn't complaining.No of course not...it is just facing the reality and not ignoring some very obvious things... 1
ERayR Posted April 22, 2015 Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) No of course not...it is just facing the reality and not ignoring some very obvious things... Or maybe it is. " it is just facing the reality and not ignoring some very obvious things.." You see that could be the view from both directions. Edited April 22, 2015 by ERayR 1
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted April 22, 2015 Posted April 22, 2015 Polyandry, racism, MMM are problems to many people, even some of the most faithful from what I've seen. To pretend they never were is pretty unhelpful.Sounds like a straw man. Who has ever argued that these "issues" are not stumbling blocks for some, let alone in this thread?
Tacenda Posted April 22, 2015 Posted April 22, 2015 Sounds like a straw man. Who has ever argued that these "issues" are not stumbling blocks for some, let alone in this thread?BCSpace did, IMO.
Nevo Posted April 22, 2015 Posted April 22, 2015 Now there's the best apologetic yet! Problem? Where? What problem? I don't see any problem........... Sadly, this reaction is still very common among armchair apologists.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted April 22, 2015 Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) BCSpace did, IMO.He did? I guess ill have to go re read his comments. No, he didn't actually argue that people don't have issues with these. Essentially he doesn't see an issue with them and he feels they are manufactured. That is a different argument. Esp with MMM, I agree with him. Edited April 22, 2015 by Mola Ram Suda Ram 2
ERayR Posted April 22, 2015 Posted April 22, 2015 Sadly, this reaction is still very common among armchair apologists. And still others have this reaction
carbon dioxide Posted April 22, 2015 Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) Fine by me if people disagree about whether issues and topics present problems or not. But, it's silly to just say all who disagree with me are complainers, which is what your response came off as, to me.Polyandry, racism, MMM are problems to many people, even some of the most faithful from what I've seen. To pretend they never were is pretty unhelpful.If one has a grounded testimony, they are "problems" but not serious issues that keep them awake at night. There are issues I don't understand. The Church does things on occasion that causes me to ask questions of "why". Polyandry is an issue I don't fully understand. I suppose if Joseph Smith was to appear to me in my room and gave me a 10 minute explanation for it, I would learn more in those 10 minutes than what every researcher as said on the subject. I probably would respond to Joseph "Ok, this pretty much is a non-issue." I am not going to let "problems" of which we only have a partial understanding on affect my testimony and overall understand of the gospel and church as a whole. So I would say get a grounded testimony first and then once one has that, have fun with the problems. I enjoy reading material critical against the Church. What they present as problems against the Church I see as opportunities and challenges to learn new things and grow in understanding. Edited April 22, 2015 by carbon dioxide 2
BCSpace Posted April 23, 2015 Posted April 23, 2015 Now there's the best apologetic yet! Problem? Where? What problem? I don't see any problem........... Except that I've been through all the evidence and down all the anti-Mormon rabbit holes. I've never met a major LDS criticism that wasn't ultimately baseless. 2
BCSpace Posted April 23, 2015 Posted April 23, 2015 He did? I guess ill have to go re read his comments. No, he didn't actually argue that people don't have issues with these. Essentially he doesn't see an issue with them and he feels they are manufactured. That is a different argument. Esp with MMM, I agree with him. That is correct. I know various people who have problems with such issues. Some take comfort that I or others have no problems with them, others don't.
Senator Posted April 23, 2015 Posted April 23, 2015 That is correct. I know various people who have problems with such issues. Some take comfort that I or others have no problems with them, others don't. I guess I would be one of the others. Frankly, I'm a bit wary of any individual who appears to have no problems, or to word it differently, fear and trembling, in not only the idea of the gospel of Jesus Christ, but also in where the rubber of its implementation hits the road. 3
stemelbow Posted April 23, 2015 Posted April 23, 2015 That is correct. I know various people who have problems with such issues. Some take comfort that I or others have no problems with them, others don't. When you said the problems don't exist, I'm sure you understand the confusion. The problems are there and are real to many members. That some shrug them off easier than others, doesn't mean the problems aren't there.
ERayR Posted April 23, 2015 Posted April 23, 2015 When you said the problems don't exist, I'm sure you understand the confusion. The problems are there and are real to many members. That some shrug them off easier than others, doesn't mean the problems aren't there. On the other hand just because some have a problem doesn't mean that a problem really exists.
stemelbow Posted April 23, 2015 Posted April 23, 2015 On the other hand just because some have a problem doesn't mean that a problem really exists. Some have problems but their problems don't exist? Doesn't make a lick of sense to me. But if it makes you sleep better at night, then who am I to argue with ya?
ERayR Posted April 23, 2015 Posted April 23, 2015 Some have problems but their problems don't exist? Doesn't make a lick of sense to me. But if it makes you sleep better at night, then who am I to argue with ya? You seem to be having comprehension problems. Example: Someone may have a problem with polygamy but that does not mean that God has a problem with it.
Deborah Posted April 23, 2015 Posted April 23, 2015 My question is why does anyone want to point out the mistakes of others and make a bigger deal of it than needs to be? Would you want someone analyzing everything you've done or said and pointing out the mistakes. That being said some so-called mistakes are matters of interpretation or disagreement and not actual errors. 1
stemelbow Posted April 23, 2015 Posted April 23, 2015 You seem to be having comprehension problems. Example: Someone may have a problem with polygamy but that does not mean that God has a problem with it. It doesn't mean God doesn't have a problem with it either. That's not really the point. The point is, do problems exist? Sure they do.
thesometimesaint Posted April 23, 2015 Posted April 23, 2015 It doesn't mean God doesn't have a problem with it either. That's not really the point. The point is, do problems exist? Sure they do. What is the difference between a stumbling block and a stepping stone?
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