Greek And Hebrew

[Avatar4321]

Been reading the Joseph Smith papers. It has been an excellent insight into the life of the prophet. And it has me pondering some questions.

The critics often claim Joseph to be a conman. But if that was so why endeavour to learn greek and Hebrew and encourage the other saints to do the same? How would that benefit a con? The only motivation that makes sense is the sincere desire to understand the Bible.

The more I read the more I am convinced that his faith and teachings are sincere

[carbon dioxide]

Been reading the Joseph Smith papers. It has been an excellent insight into the life of the prophet. And it has me pondering some questions.

The critics often claim Joseph to be a conman. But if that was so why endeavour to learn greek and Hebrew and encourage the other saints to do the same? How would that benefit a con? The only motivation that makes sense is the sincere desire to understand the Bible.

The more I read the more I am convinced that his faith and teachings are sincere

The only way to explain Joseph Smith if one thinks he is a fraud is to call him a con man.  Usually then never consider the application of their criticism.  One of my favorite is the claim that Joseph Smith copied from the KJV in producing the Book of Mormon coupled with the claim that he translated the Book of Mormon with his face buried in a hat.  I say to them go try that.  Read a couple of chapters of Isaiah for about an hour or two and then bury their face in a hat and dictate to a scribe those Isaiah chapters almost perfectly the first time through.  These "intellectuals" will make mistake after mistake after mistake in almost every verse but somehow Joseph Smith was able to do it without any mistakes.  And when Joseph did make an alteration, it was one that usually could be backed by some other version of Isaiah. 

Edited February 14, 2015 by carbon dioxide

[Avatar4321]

The only way to explain Joseph Smith if one thinks he is a fraud is to call him a con man.  Usually then never consider the application of their criticism.  One of my favorite is the claim that Joseph Smith copied from the KJV in producing the Book of Mormon coupled with the claim that he translated the Book of Mormon with his face buried in a hat.  I say to them go try that.  Read a couple of chapters of Isaiah for about an hour or two and then bury their face in a hat and dictate to a scribe those Isaiah chapters almost perfectly the first time through.  These "intellectuals" will make mistake after mistake after mistake in almost every verse but somehow Joseph Smith was able to do it without any mistakes.  And when Joseph did make an alteration, it was one that usually could be backed by some other version of Isaiah.

Excellent point I had not considered that.

[Uncle Dale]

Been reading the Joseph Smith papers. It has been an excellent insight into the life of the prophet. And it has me pondering some questions.

The critics often claim Joseph to be a conman. But if that was so why endeavour to learn greek and Hebrew and encourage the other saints to do the same? How would that benefit a con? The only motivation that makes sense is the sincere desire to understand the Bible.

The more I read the more I am convinced that his faith and teachings are sincere

 

 

Oh, I suppose it goes back to the notion of "restoring the ancient

order of things;" or to that of "restoring all things."

 

If the Mormons were to truly be the latter day "Chosen People," and

the rightful inheritors of the Apostolic Church, then they should be

familiar with the past six "dispensations" and what the saints of the

past did, thought and spoke.

 

Prior to the advent of Mormonism the Smith family at Manchester had

various arcane documents -- which were used for... ? What? Some of

the symbols/characters/letters on those papers appear to be Hebrew

and Greek.

 

Joseph Smith, Sr. and Hyrum (and perhaps Alvin) were members of the

Masonic fraternity, where the emphasis placed upon past, lost traditions

and lore was very heavy. Participation in some of the degrees of that

order practically paralleled the purported events and lifestyles of

biblical times -- and particularly those associated with the inner workings

of the Israelite temple. The Smiths probably pondered such things.

 

Why was Hebrew taught in the Kirtland School of the Prophets, and then

dropped? (Brigham's later revival of that school was not for language study)

Maybe because many of the students were either high priests or slated for

elevation to that office -- and the Israelite high priests knew Hebrew. If those

latter day high priests were promised an eventual face-to-face encounter

with the risen Christ (the Jehovah of Israelite religion -- they thought), then

an understanding of things Hebraic would be useful.

 

Take your pick...

 

Whatever the impetus was, it appears to have tapered off after Smith's death.

 

UD

[Rain]

The only way to explain Joseph Smith if one thinks he is a fraud is to call him a con man. Usually then never consider the application of their criticism. One of my favorite is the claim that Joseph Smith copied from the KJV in producing the Book of Mormon coupled with the claim that he translated the Book of Mormon with his face buried in a hat. I say to them go try that. Read a couple of chapters of Isaiah for about an hour or two and then bury their face in a hat and dictate to a scribe those Isaiah chapters almost perfectly the first time through. These "intellectuals" will make mistake after mistake after mistake in almost every verse but somehow Joseph Smith was able to do it without any mistakes. And when Joseph did make an alteration, it was one that usually could be backed by some other version of Isaiah.

When I've compared the 2 I was impressed that the altered parts made more sense.

[Ferdinand55]

Been reading the Joseph Smith papers. It has been an excellent insight into the life of the prophet. And it has me pondering some questions.

The critics often claim Joseph to be a conman. But if that was so why endeavour to learn greek and Hebrew and encourage the other saints to do the same? How would that benefit a con? The only motivation that makes sense is the sincere desire to understand the Bible.

The more I read the more I am convinced that his faith and teachings are sincere

I think that this is why some critics are starting to take the stance that Joseph was a "pious fraud". He legitimately wanted to do good, but he used lies and deception to accomplish his goals.

 

I don't think that this conclusion is supported either, though...

[cinepro]

Been reading the Joseph Smith papers. It has been an excellent insight into the life of the prophet. And it has me pondering some questions.

The critics often claim Joseph to be a conman. But if that was so why endeavour to learn greek and Hebrew and encourage the other saints to do the same? How would that benefit a con? The only motivation that makes sense is the sincere desire to understand the Bible.

The more I read the more I am convinced that his faith and teachings are sincere

 

I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure when anti-Mormons attribute Joseph Smith's accomplishments to "fraud", they aren't saying that he is a black-hatted, mustache-twirling "conman" from a 1960s B-movie.

 

 

If you want to understand the ways in which Joseph may have been a "fraud", then you would probably need to study other frauds so you can learn about the depth and variety of ways in which people can fool themselves and others, both intentionally and unintentionally.  But even then, it's possible Joseph was totally unique among such people, and he could have been in a unique class all to himself the likes of which we have never seen before, and will never see again.

 

Personally, I don't think Joseph Smith was a "conman", but if I were interested enough to start a thread on the subject, that's what I would do.

Edited February 15, 2015 by cinepro

[Uncle Dale]

I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure when anti-Mormons attribute Joseph Smith's accomplishments to "fraud", they aren't saying that he is a black-hatted, mustache-twirling "conman" from a 1960s B-movie.

If you want to understand the ways in which Joseph may have been a "fraud", then you would probably need to study other frauds so you can learn about the depth and variety of ways in which people can fool themselves and others, both intentionally and unintentionally. But even then, it's possible Joseph was totally unique among such people, and he could have been in a unique class all to himself the likes of which we have never seen before, and will never see again.

Personally, I don't think Joseph Smith was a "conman", but if I were interested enough to start a thread on the subject, that's what I would do.

 

Some guy put his Master's level study on this topic on the web

a few years back... I think it is called "Was Joseph Smith a

Con Man," or some such thing.

 

 

Conclusion, his brother William

better fits that characterization.

UD

Edited February 16, 2015 by Uncle Dale

[omni]

Been reading the Joseph Smith papers. It has been an excellent insight into the life of the prophet. And it has me pondering some questions.

The critics often claim Joseph to be a conman. But if that was so why endeavour to learn greek and Hebrew and encourage the other saints to do the same? How would that benefit a con? The only motivation that makes sense is the sincere desire to understand the Bible.

The more I read the more I am convinced that his faith and teachings are sincere

Interesting how we can take the same information and come to opposite conclusions. It's not like Joseph was learning Russian to impress visiting dignitaries for some sort of parlor trick.

He was learning Greek and Hebrew for righteous reasons to further the work, so why didn't God simply bestow upon him the ability to translate these languages much like he did ancient Egyptian and reformed Egyptian? It seems a bit coincidental that the two languages (Greek and Hebrew) in which Joseph's translating abilities could be tested he had to learn the old fashion way, whereas with the other two languages he seemed to miraculously become fluent rather quickly.

[omni]

The only way to explain Joseph Smith if one thinks he is a fraud is to call him a con man. Usually then never consider the application of their criticism. One of my favorite is the claim that Joseph Smith copied from the KJV in producing the Book of Mormon coupled with the claim that he translated the Book of Mormon with his face buried in a hat. I say to them go try that. Read a couple of chapters of Isaiah for about an hour or two and then bury their face in a hat and dictate to a scribe those Isaiah chapters almost perfectly the first time through. These "intellectuals" will make mistake after mistake after mistake in almost every verse but somehow Joseph Smith was able to do it without any mistakes. And when Joseph did make an alteration, it was one that usually could be backed by some other version of Isaiah.

Ironically, I see the BoM's usage of dozens (hundreds?) of identical verses to the KJV Bible as perhaps the greatest single evidence against it's historicity.

[Calm]

Interesting how we can take the same information and come to opposite conclusions. It's not like Joseph was learning Russian to impress visiting dignitaries for some sort of parlor trick.

He was learning Greek and Hebrew for righteous reasons to further the work, so why didn't God simply bestow upon him the ability to translate these languages much like he did ancient Egyptian and reformed Egyptian? It seems a bit coincidental that the two languages (Greek and Hebrew) in which Joseph's translating abilities could be tested he had to learn the old fashion way, whereas with the other two languages he seemed to miraculously become fluent rather quickly.

It would seem the usual pattern of God's work is to allow us to do as much as we can and then he steps into help with those things we can't do.  No one was there to teach Joseph Egyptian or Reformed.  He had however in time access to teachers and books that could teach him other languages.

[omni]

So why not have angelic beings to teach him Egyptian? I realize this would take quite a bit more time, but so did learning Greek and Hebrew through the use of teachers and books. Certainly time was at a premium for Jospeph, perhaps if instead of spending his time learning these languages he could have finished the JST or better yet the Book of Joseph. Do we know for what purposes Joseph used his these languages?

[Avatar4321]

So why not have angelic beings to teach him Egyptian? I realize this would take quite a bit more time, but so did learning Greek and Hebrew through the use of teachers and books. Certainly time was at a premium for Jospeph, perhaps if instead of spending his time learning these languages he could have finished the JST or better yet the Book of Joseph. Do we know for what purposes Joseph used his these languages?

my guess it was to help with translating the Bible.

and it seems consistent with the principles the Lord has taught us. He expects us to do our part in learning and He makes up the difference.

Brigham made a similar statement in regards to faith healing

[Uncle Dale]

So why not have angelic beings to teach him Egyptian? I realize this would take quite a bit more time, but so did learning Greek and Hebrew through the use of teachers and books. Certainly time was at a premium for Jospeph, perhaps if instead of spending his time learning these languages he could have finished the JST or better yet the Book of Joseph. Do we know for what purposes Joseph used his these languages?

 

If even half of Rev. Caswall's report of his visit to Nauvoo can be

relied upon. President Smith did not understand the Greek writing

of even a few centuries past. I doubt very, very much that he was

fluent in the koine of Jesus' day and age, or in the classical text of

the LXX Bible.

 

 

 

The few instances in which Smith attempted to demonstrate a

command of ancient languages come off looking like a parody,

and the examples published in the "Times & Seasons" and in

his Presidential platform are best attributed to ghost writers

G. J. Adams and W. W. Phelps.

 

 

No doubt Smith picked up a smattering of biblical Hebrew, and

he probably knew a sentence or two of French and Spanish --

that would have been typical for a leader of his era. But I see

no instance recorded where Smith is depicted as conversing

with anybody in any language other than Yankee vernacular.

 

The person in Nauvoo at that time who did know Hebrew and

Greek was Sidney Rigdon. Rigdon probably taught the latter

language to members of the Snow family before Mormonism

ever reached northern Ohio -- at least he did so to some of

their neighbors, including the father of President Garfield's

wife (who lived near the Snows).

 

If angelic beings were to teach him anything, I suppose his

claim would have been for the original language of Adam.

For example, when Smith dedicated the Jackson County

Temple, he revealed that the Adamic name for Enoch's

Zion was "Zomas." Some other texts originating with Smith

appear to show a pretended familiarity with Adam's tongue.

 

 

Again, I would direct attention back to what Quinn calls

the "magic" documents of the Joseph Smith, Sr. family,

their possible connection to Royal Arch Freemasonry,

and the markings upon those papers which look like words

and abbreviations in Hebrew and Greek.

 

UD

Edited February 16, 2015 by Uncle Dale

[omni]

If even half of Rev. Caswall's report of his visit to Nauvoo can be

relied upon. President Smith did not understand the Greek writing

of even a few centuries past. I doubt very, very much that he was

fluent in the koine of Jesus' day and age, or in the classical text of

the LXX Bible.

 

 

 

The few instances in which Smith attempted to demonstrate a

command of ancient languages come off looking like a parody,

and the examples published in the "Times & Seasons" and in

his Presidential platform are best attributed to ghost writers

G. J. Adams and W. W. Phelps.

 

 

Which makes one wonder all the more what the purpose was.  Of course my ever cynical mind can think of at least one possible benefit of Joseph's study of Hebrew - the very cool, exotic and Semitic sounding names like Enosh-go-on-dosh.

[Calm]

If even half of Rev. Caswall's report of his visit to Nauvoo can be

relied upon.

 

That is a big if, imo.

[Uncle Dale]

That is a big if, imo.

 

Well, he really was there in Nauvoo. And he really had a Greek

text. Some of his personal papers ended up in a Kentucky archive;

so we know a little about the fellow.

 

His host in Montrose was David W. Kilbourne, who also visited 

Nauvoo and reported on the papyrus relics, etc. At least some

of what they said agrees with reports from other, contemporary

travelers and visitors to the Mormon capital and Smith's home.

 

Caswall's depiction of President Smith, as a sly but bumbling

pseudo-translator is very likely a gross exaggeration. But his

demonstration, of Smith's inability to read Medieval Greek,

was probably factual.

 

Who knows for certain?

None of us were there.

 

UD

[Robert F. Smith]

Been reading the Joseph Smith papers. It has been an excellent insight into the life of the prophet. And it has me pondering some questions.

The critics often claim Joseph to be a conman. But if that was so why endeavour to learn greek and Hebrew and encourage the other saints to do the same? How would that benefit a con? The only motivation that makes sense is the sincere desire to understand the Bible.

The more I read the more I am convinced that his faith and teachings are sincere

Yes, and another indicator was that he surrounded himself with men of great individuality, innovation, and integrity.  The men who assassinated him were no doubt disappointed that his Church did not immediately fizzle, but became more powerful than ever due to those same great leaders chosen by Joseph.

 

Leaders in industry and government could take a cue from Joseph to surround themselves with people other than sycophants.

[Robert F. Smith]

my guess it was to help with translating the Bible.

and it seems consistent with the principles the Lord has taught us. 

.........................................................

Actually, he and the much better educated Sidney Rigdon collaborated on their revision of the Bible, at the same time that Rigdon's former boss, Alexander Campbell was also revising the Bible.  President Thomas Jefferson had also tried his hand at revising parts of the Bible.  Everybody wanted in on the act.

[Robert F. Smith]

Which makes one wonder all the more what the purpose was.  Of course my ever cynical mind can think of at least one possible benefit of Joseph's study of Hebrew - the very cool, exotic and Semitic sounding names like Enosh-go-on-dosh.

Hebrew or Semitic?  Perhaps you could offer an etymology?  Or, are you being snide?

 

Of course, nowhere does the text suggest that Enish-go-on-dosh is Hebrew or Semitic, but instead terms it "Egyptian" for "the Sun" (Abraham Fac 2:5).  A further meaning for it can be found in J. Smith letter to James A. Bennett, Nov 13, 1843, LDS Archives MS d 155, Box 2, folder 6, sheet 2, page 4, “the power of attraction [it has with the earth]”; Phelps & Parrish, Egyptian MS #1 = “Grammar and Alphabet,” 30, “Enish-go-on-dosh or in other words the power of attra(c )tion it has with the earth” (J. Smith, Times & Seasons, IV:373, Nov 13, 1843).

 

Such compound names were quite common in ancient Egypt, and I could suggest hypothetical ancient Egyptian *wnš kЗ n tЗš "Sledge of the Ka of the Boundary," referring to the "hyper-physical Vital Force" (kЗ) represented by the solar sledge being ritually drawn around the Egyptian temple in imitation of the circuit of the Sun (C. J. Bleeker, Egyptian Festivals, 70,85; E. F. Wente, “Egyptian Religion,” in Freedman, ed., Anchor Bible Dictionary, II:409).  The final element tЗš comes to us in Sahidic Coptic as twš, toš (ntoš in a proper name), and in Egyptian Arabic as twš, tāš (Behnstedt & Woidich, ägyptisch-arabischen Dialekte, IV:293, V:383).  kЗ is normally vocalized as ku' (Albright, From the Stone Age to Christianity, 130; Albright, Vocalization of the Egyptian Syllabic Orthography, 26,61, XVII.C., citing Steindorff, ZÄS, 48:152-159).

Edited February 16, 2015 by Robert F. Smith

[Uncle Dale]

Actually, he and the much better educated Sidney Rigdon collaborated on their revision of the Bible, at the same time that Rigdon's former boss, Alexander Campbell was also revising the Bible.  President Thomas Jefferson had also tried his hand at revising parts of the Bible.  Everybody wanted in on the act.

 

As things worked out, Campbell's 1822 & 1828 revisions of the

New Testament were almost entirely comprised of "modern"

translations prepared by linguists far better than the

Bethany reformer. Campbell did emphasize a few points:

equating angel with "messenger," baptism with "immersion,"

etc. He was keen on the idea that "bishops" should oversee

groups of congregations, and he introduced the intermediate

ministerial office of "teacher" between that of deacon and

elder. But he had little interest in the Hebrew Bible.

 

A fact which must have irritated Elder Sidney Rigdon, posted

out in the wilderness of southeastern Geauga County, Ohio,

through the efforts of Campbell and Adamson Bentley. Rigdon

almost certainly was sent a crate of Campbell's new bible, to

peddle amongst the region's Campbellites (and to Baptists on

the verge of turning Campbellite).

 

 

But Rigdon was more interested in the restoration of "all things"

scriptural -- and in seeing the prophecies of the Hebrew Bible

made real, in the Second Coming and the Millennium.

 

Handing out Campbell's "half-a-bible" must have frustrated

Elder Rigdon to no end. And perhaps that is part of the

reason that Parley P. Pratt pointed back to this period, of

1824-29, as the time of the rise of the "Rigdonites" -- folks

who paid lip service to Campbell's half-a-bible and limited

"restoration," while following Elder Rigdon's teachings on

a soon-to-come marvelous work and a wonder...

 

UD

Edited February 16, 2015 by Uncle Dale

[Robert F. Smith]

Well, he really was there in Nauvoo. And he really had a Greek

text. Some of his personal papers ended up in a Kentucky archive;

so we know a little about the fellow.

 

His host in Montrose was David W. Kilbourne, who also visited 

Nauvoo and reported on the papyrus relics, etc. At least some

of what they said agrees with reports from other, contemporary

travelers and visitors to the Mormon capital and Smith's home.

 

Caswall's depiction of President Smith, as a sly but bumbling

pseudo-translator is very likely a gross exaggeration. But his

demonstration, of Smith's inability to read Medieval Greek,

was probably factual.

...........................................

More than a "gross exaggeration," as shown by Pahoran back in 2011 on this board at http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/55326-caswall-and-his-psalter-part-2/ , as well as by FAIR at http://fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Translator/Greek_psalter .

 

Those who are on record as calling Joseph a "liar" based on his various versions of his First Vision, please take note of Caswall's infinite variety of descriptions.

[Robert F. Smith]

As things worked out, Campbell's 1822 revision of the

New Testament was almost entirely comprised of "modern"

translations prepared by linguists far better than the

Bethany reformer. Campbell did emphasize a few points:

equating angel with "messenger," baptism with "immersion,"

etc. He was keen on the idea that "bishops" should oversee

groups of congregations, and he introduced the intermediate

ministerial office of "teacher" between that of deacon and

elder. But he had little interest in the Hebrew Bible.

 

A fact which must have irritated Elder Sidney Rigdon, posted

out in the wilderness of southeastern Geauga County, Ohio,

through the efforts of Campbell and Adamson Bentley. Rigdon

almost certainly was sent a crate of Campbell's new bible, to

peddle amongst the region's Campbellites (and to Baptists on

the verge of turning Campbellite).

 

But Rigdon was more interested in the restoration of "all things"

scriptural -- and in seeing the prophecies of the Hebrew Bible

made real, in the Second Coming and the Millennium.

 

Handing out Campbell's "half-a-bible" work have frustrated

Elder Rigdon to no end. And perhaps that is part of the

reason that Parley P. Pratt pointed back to this period, of

1824-29, as the time of the rise of the "Rigdonites" -- folks

who paid lip service to Campbell's half-a-bible and limited

"restoration," while following Elder Rigdon's teachings on

a soon-to-come marvelous work and a wonder...

 

UD

Wow.  I did not know that, Dale.  You mean to say that Rigdon was (in effect) preparing the way in the wilderness for Joseph Smith?  Amazing and breathtaking!!  Restoration was in the air . . . 

[Uncle Dale]

Wow.  I did not know that, Dale.  You mean to say that Rigdon was (in effect) preparing the way in the wilderness for Joseph Smith?  Amazing and breathtaking!!  Restoration was in the air . . . 

 

Well, the people to ask were the Whitney family in Kirtland.

Seems that angelic (?) voices were heard in their residence,

announcing that wonderful things were about to occur in

their little town. Other members of Rigdon's congregations

in the area had less supernatural, but equally exciting

discoveries to rally their enthusiasm. Eliza Snow had heard

of Joseph Smith's gold bible, before the "four missionaries"

ever showed up -- as had Orson Hyde, another of Rigdon's

parishioners. Not to mention the fact that the local newspaper

had printed the breath-taking news as early as 1829.

 

Parley P. Pratt's "Angel of the Prairies" experiences date to

this era, and his lore-revealing serif compares well with Eliza's

published poem, hinting at similar fore-telling.

 

Obviously "something" was in the air...

 

UD

[Robert F. Smith]

..........................................................................  

 

No doubt Smith picked up a smattering of biblical Hebrew, and

he probably knew a sentence or two of French and Spanish --

that would have been typical for a leader of his era.

..................................................

 

The person in Nauvoo at that time who did know Hebrew and

Greek was Sidney Rigdon. Rigdon probably taught the latter

language to members of the Snow family before Mormonism

ever reached northern Ohio -- at least he did so to some of

their neighbors, including the father of President Garfield's

wife (who lived near the Snows).

Surely you know of that Joseph and the Brethren had studied Hebrew systematically in Kirtland, Ohio, under a Jewish instructor named Joshua Seixas.

Seixas, Joshua, Manual: Hebrew Grammar for the Use of Beginners, 2nd rev. and enlarged ed. (Andover: Gould & Newman, 1834/ reprint SLC: Sunstone Foundation, 1981); 

Zucker, Louis C., “Joseph Smith as a Student of Hebrew,” Dialogue, 3/2 (Summer 1968):41-55.

 

Surely you know that Joseph used such knowledge in his funeral oration for King Follett in 1844.

 

...........................................................................  .

 

 

Again, I would direct attention back to what Quinn calls

the "magic" documents of the Joseph Smith, Sr. family,

their possible connection to Royal Arch Freemasonry,

and the markings upon those papers which look like words

and abbreviations in Hebrew and Greek.

 

UD

On this and the other parchment lamens in the possession of Joseph’s older brother Hyrum Smith, see Mike Quinn, Early Mormonism and the Magic World View, 1st ed. (1987), 78-79, 97-111, and figs. 50-83; and in his  2nd ed.  Such documents were passed down through Hyrum's family, and were photographed while in the hands of the last Patriarch of the LDS Church.

 

You probably also know of Joseph's Qabbalistic silver Jupiter medallion or talisman, which is in the Wilford Wood Museum in Woods Cross, Utah.

 

All that the sort of thing one could find in Francis Barrett, The Lives of the Alchemystical Philosophers (1815); or Barrett, The Magus, or Celestial Intelligencer; Being a Complete System of Occult Philosophy, I:vii, 142-3, 146, 174 (1801/  reprints 1875/ 1896/ 1967/ 1970/ 1975/ 1977/ 1980).

 

Richard Bushman has repeatedly referred to Joseph's involvement in "vernacular magic" (Century 2, IV/4 (1980):36; Sunstone, 11/5 #61 (Sept 1987):5, and in his Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling, and some Mark Hofmann forgeries played off of that same basic theme.

 

None of this should surprise those of us familiar with David M. Ludlum, Social Ferment in Vermont 1791-1850 (1939/ 1948), and similar historical works.  This is yesterday's news.