LOSTONE Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 I didn't get offended by anything anyone here said to me. I just get confused in my understanding sometimes and it tends to lead me into trouble, so I figure I might ask first. All is good and again, I want to express that I hold zero hate towards the LGBT. Thanks.
Calm Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) To Daniel: Yep, just clarifying for Lost One. Since I most fervently believe there are as many good people outside the LDS faith as in it (percentage wise, in straight numbers, they overwhelm LDS given even in the US we are only at most 2% of the population), I do not want anyone to think that being nonLDS in my view is inherently something bad....or in the view of the vast majority of LDS and those few LDS who may feel that way would be strongly corrected by our leaders. Edited January 31, 2015 by calmoriah
Rob Osborn Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 Congrats on your family--it's wonderful to enter into a marriage with someone that is meaningful and resonates with your own deepest beliefs, personality, and desires. And children certainly are lucky to be raised by loving, committed parents.That hypothetical story is rather useless, because it simply will never be a reality, and ignores other positive non-procreative contributions by gays and lesbians to society (kin selection, adoption, fulfilling roles beyond procreative functions that still benefit society). For what it's worth, though, if we were all gay on a deserted island and we HAD to procreate for the perpetuation of the species, I'd willingly help father kids for their lesbian parents to raise and be glad for any lesbians that carried children for my husband and I to raise. Chances are that the majority of our kids would be heterosexuals without any coercion from their supportive gay parents. ;-)Not really sure what positive contributions a gay couple could offer to the traditional family.
rockpond Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 Not really sure what positive contributions a gay couple could offer to the traditional family.Wow. But that does help explain your feelings about gay marriage.
Daniel2 Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) Not really sure what positive contributions a gay couple could offer to the traditional family.Rob,The body is made up of many organs. Each organ serves a different function or purpose. Some organs protect against the elements. Some provide direction to the whole to gather food and drink. Other organs digest food and water. Others circulate the blood that carries vital nutrients to all systems, as well as defend against foreign contaminants. Still others eliminate waste and toxins from the system. A variety of other systems are at play, with numerous other purposes--each unique, and only part of thr whole. And, of course, some organs are used to procreate. What if every organ performed the same function as all the others? What if every organ only regulated sleep? Or what if every organ only processed air? Or what if every organ was only a procreative organ...? What would happen to the body?If you recall, the Bible offers a similar parable. Can one part of the body tell another it has no need of it...?Humanity is much like the body. Different people play different roles, each adding something to the whole. If every person's sole or singular purpose was to procreate, how would that affect society? Who would farm, gather, teach, innovate, discover, explore, build, create, heal, protect, administer?Those that don't personally reproduce can and do serve other vital functions--functions that actually help the whole, even allowing those that procreate to even further their procreative purposes by aleviating some of the other non-related, but still important, social functions. Edited January 31, 2015 by Daniel2 1
thesometimesaint Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Threatening people with legal fines and fees if they don't want to bake a cake for a ceremony they don't approve of is a threat to hurt the baker, too. Do you approve of that type of threat? Sure it's a great way to run a society if you don't care that it may violate somebody's conscience but do we really need to threaten to do that when there are other alternatives? Take it up with your legislature. I don't know of any fine for not baking a cake for a ceremony you don't approve of where I live, unless your normal business is making cakes. However a business license could be in jeopardy(depending on your local). IE; Say I bake birthday cakes as my business. I can't legally refuse to sell you a birthday cake, because I don't like why you eat them.Yes; What other peaceful and legal means do we have to insure compliance with a law you don't like, and won't obey?If all men were angels no government would be necessary. If all men were devils no government would be possible.
Rob Osborn Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Wow. But that does help explain your feelings about gay marriage.Yeah. I am totally against gay marriage in every aspect. I see it as a major scourge on the face of the earth and completely abominable before God.
thesometimesaint Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 People have been doing a pretty good job for about 4 millennia now of being judge, jury, and royal executioners of those whom they think God finds an abomination.
Rob Osborn Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Gay marriage is dangerous to society just as is pornography and all other immoral things.
rockpond Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Gay marriage is dangerous to society just as is pornography and all other immoral things.How is gay marriage dangerous to society?
carbon dioxide Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 To threaten or actually fine a person for not wanting to bake a cake / cookies due to personal religious believes sounds a lot like a dictatorship or communist mentality to me. I will stand in defiance when called to in defense of my religious believes and accept the results of doing so. I answer to God, not man. Whatever man does to me, God can easily undo and fix.Or you could respond by baking a horrible cake.
carbon dioxide Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Gay marriage is dangerous to society just as is pornography and all other immoral things.Dangerous might not be the correct word for those things. Just bad for society over the long run.
Rob Osborn Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 How is gay marriage dangerous to society?Gay marriage corrupts families and homes and in that process the strength of our nation weakens and we become bound into immorality and sin and lose our freedom.
Rivers Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 I'm not so sure gay marriage has been around long enough for us to make a case concerning its effects on society. Its uncharted territory.
thesometimesaint Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Gay marriage corrupts families and homes and in that process the strength of our nation weakens and we become bound into immorality and sin and lose our freedom. The exact same thing was said about interracial couples not that long ago.
LOSTONE Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Or you could respond by baking a horrible cake. I love cake, but I can't do gay cake even if it was a lesbian cake. Sorry. Even cake has it's limits, lol.
Daniel2 Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) Starting a business as a bakery is a choice. Owning a business carries certain responsibilities. If one doesn't want to comply with the requirements of owning a business, other options are available... Feel free to bake cakes as a hobby for whomever you wish, and you can discriminate to your heart's content--and as an added bonus, you won't have to pay taxes! Edited February 1, 2015 by Daniel2
LOSTONE Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Last I checked, in my country, we have the right to refuse business to anyone and a right to have our religious believes protected against prosecution. Well, it use to be this way before the shift to a communist rule and dictatorship. If it my business, I should have the right to refuse service to anyone and stand by my religious believes without prosecution and without getting permission form the communist dictatorship that seems to have taken over.
The Nehor Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Last I checked, in my country, we have the right to refuse business to anyone and a right to have our religious believes protected against prosecution. Well, it use to be this way before the shift to a communist rule and dictatorship. If it my business, I should have the right to refuse service to anyone and stand by my religious believes without prosecution and without getting permission form the communist dictatorship that seems to have taken over. You may want to check out Haiti. It sounds like your dream country. Virtually no regulations. Communist rule and dictatorship? Thanks for giving me my laugh of the day.
Daniel2 Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) Last I checked, in my country, we have the right to refuse business to anyone and a right to have our religious believes protected against prosecution. Well, it use to be this way before the shift to a communist rule and dictatorship. If it my business, I should have the right to refuse service to anyone and stand by my religious believes without prosecution and without getting permission form the communist dictatorship that seems to have taken over.Are you a U.S. citizen?When was this "last time you checked"?I mean that literally... what was the date?What, exactly, were you checking?And what, specifically, did you uncover that resulted in your erroneous conclusion that you "have the right to refuse service to anyone"? (Businesses do not have that right) Edited February 1, 2015 by Daniel2
The Nehor Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Are you a U.S. citizen?When was this "last time you checked"?I mean that literally... what was the date?What, exactly, were you checking?And what, specifically, did you uncover that resulted in your erroneous conclusion that you "have the right to refuse service to anyone"? (Businesses do not have that right) I think he believes those "We refuse the right to refuse service to anyone" signs that used to hang in most fast food places were legally binding. They weren't. They were put in so you could point at them when you were throwing out rowdy people, people who come in right before closing time demanding service, someone with no sense of hygiene, people in excess of your capacity to serve, and things of that nature. Since the Civil Rights movement you cannot discriminate based on race, color, or religion or any other arbitrary discriminating factor. There are limited exceptions where you can discriminate by gender.
HappyJackWagon Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 Yeah. I am totally against gay marriage in every aspect. I see it as a major scourge on the face of the earth and completely abominable before God.Ironically, many feel the same way about Mormons. I'd prefer to promote a world that is accepting of differences in belief and behavior and not one of fanatical judgement and discrimination. 1
KevinG Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 Ironically, many feel the same way about Mormons. I'd prefer to promote a world that is accepting of differences in belief and behavior and not one of fanatical judgement and discrimination. Unfortunately we live in a world that does discriminate. Violently in some cases. I have been disregarded as an applicant for a job because of my Mormonism. Twice this has been verified by recruiters. Funny how I walked away relieved that I would not be working for bigots, as opposed to suing them.
The Nehor Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 Unfortunately we live in a world that does discriminate. Violently in some cases. I have been disregarded as an applicant for a job because of my Mormonism. Twice this has been verified by recruiters. Funny how I walked away relieved that I would not be working for bigots, as opposed to suing them.You were fortunate that the discrimination was not widespread through all of society.
KevinG Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 You were fortunate that the discrimination was not widespread through all of society. It was in Wyoming and Utah. I escaped to Georgia where Mormon's are more of a curiosity than a lightening rod. I prefer it that way. Many of my black, gay, female, etc. friends appreciate Atlanta for its international and cosmopolitan views, that respect a diverse culture. Anti-Mormons in Wyoming and Utah, not so much. But now you bring it up. Do you suppose Mormons or Gays are more accepted in the broader culture here in the USA today? Would it be easier to elect an Atheist official or a Mormon official to national office? Would the views of a genderqueer individual or a Mormon be more likely to be argued with in a college classroom? Traditionally under represented does not always translate to present social acceptance and vice versa.
Recommended Posts