Lds Church Backs Lgbt Rights

[Daniel2]

Mormon church backs LGBT rights — with one condition

http://kdvr.com/2015/01/27/mormon-church-backs-lgbt-rights-with-one-condition/

POSTED 10:08 AM, JANUARY 27, 2015, BY CNN WIRE

SALT LAKE CITY — In at least one big and bruising culture-war battle, the Mormon church wants to call a partial truce.

Convening a rare press conference on Tuesday at church headquarters in Salt Lake City, Mormon leaders pledged to support anti-discrimination laws for gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people, as long the laws also protect the rights of religious groups.

In exchange, the Mormon church wants gay rights advocates — and the government — to back off.

“When religious people are publicly intimidated, retaliated against, forced from employment or made to suffer personal loss because they have raised their voice in the public square, donated to a cause or participated in an election, our democracy is the loser,” said Elder Dallin Oaks, a member of the church’s Quorum of Twelve Apostles.

“Such tactics are every bit as wrong as denying access to employment, housing or public services because of race or gender.”

The Mormon church is one of several religious groups to complain about religious freedom coming under “attack” in recent years. The Catholic church and Southern Baptists, among other evangelicals, have sounded the alarm as well.

Oaks cited several examples on Tuesday, including:

The mayor of Houston subpoenaing sermon notes last year from pastors who opposed an equal rights ordination. The subpoena was later dropped. Public pressure on a Mormon gymnast to step down as an Olympic liaison in 2011 because he had supported California’s Proposition 8, which banned gay marriage in 2008. In 2014, Mozilla CEO Brendan Eich was forced to resign because he had donated money to support the passage of Prop 8.

“It is one of today’s great ironies that some people who have fought so hard for LGBT rights now try to deny the rights of others to disagree with their public policy proposals,” said Oaks.

Tuesday’s offer doesn’t change church doctrine — including its opposition to gay marriage, Mormon leaders said.

“But we are suggesting a new way forward in which those with different views on these complex issues can together seek solutions that will be fair to everyone,” said Elder D. Todd Christofferson, a member of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles, one of the church’s top tiers of leadership.

Officially known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Mormon church, like other religious groups, has tried to strike a delicate balance on gay rights.

Mormons have fought the legalization of same-sex marriage, for example, while trying to avoid the “anti-gay” label sometimes affixed to conservative faiths. Many church members were particularly stung by the fierce backlash to Prop 8. The Mormon-backed referendum was later struck down in court.

Nearly two-thirds of Mormons say homosexuality should be discouraged by society, according to a 2012 survey conducted by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life. The church’s official position is that same-sex attraction is not a sin, but acting on it is.

At the same time, Mormon leaders have taken an increasingly civil tone towards gays and lesbians in recent years, and gay rights groups cheered the church for endorsing the Boy Scouts’ decision to allow gay scouts in 2013.

Notably, however, Mormon leaders said Tuesday that they would not — and could not — alter their opposition to gay marriage, calling such unions, “contrary to the laws of God.”

“This commandment and doctrine comes from sacred scripture and we are not at liberty to change it,” said Sister Neill Marriott, a leader in the church’s women’s organization.

“But, God is loving and merciful,” Marriott continued. Jesus ministered to marginalized outcasts, she said by way of example, while also obeying religious commandments.

“It’s for this reason that the church has publicly favored laws and ordinances that protect LGBT people from discrimination in housing and employment.”

In 2009, the Mormon church backed nondiscrimination regulations for gays and lesbians in Salt Lake City. On Tuesday, Mormon leaders said they are now willing to support similar measures elsewhere, including laws protecting LGBT persons from unfair bias in housing, unemployment and public transportation.

With nearly 6.5 million members in the United States, the Mormon church is one of the largest in this country to offer support of LGBT anti-discrimination laws, second only to the United Methodist Church. The country’s two largest Christian denominations, the Catholic church and Southern Baptist Convention, have opposed the Employee Non-Discrimination Act, or ENDA. None of those groups condone gay marriage.

In this country, less than a third of states have laws protecting gays and lesbians from discrimination, according to GLAD, the gay rights group. Even fewer state laws protect gender identity or expression.

It is unlikely that Mormons’ support of those measures could increase that number, except perhaps in church strongholds like Utah, Idaho and Wyoming. There are 16 Mormons in Congress, where LGBT civil rights legislation, including ENDA, has repeatedly failed.

Gay marriage, on the other hand, has proved far more successful, despite opposition from conservative groups, including the Mormon church. Thirty-five states now allow same-sex couples to wed. Earlier this month, the Supreme Court agreed to decide whether states have the constitutional right to ban same-sex marriage.

Perhaps with an eye on the high court, Mormon leaders said Tuesday the rights of gays and lesbians must not trump the religious freedom of faith communities.

“What kinds of religious rights are we talking about?” said Elder Jeffrey Holland, a member of the church’s Quorum of Twelve Apostles.

It begins with the rights of faith communities to preach their beliefs from the pulpit, teach them in church classrooms and freely select their own leaders and ministers, Holland said.

But religious freedom should also extend to Mormon physicians who refuse to perform abortions or artificial insemination for a lesbian couple, or a Catholic pharmacist who declines to carry the “morning after” pill, he added.

As Mormon leaders acknowledged Tuesday, such situations have perplexed politicians, appeared on court dockets across the country and set conservative and liberals at fierce odds.

“These are serious issues,” Holland said, “and they require serious minds engaged in thoughtful, courteous discourse.”

TRADEMARK AND COPYRIGHT 2015 CABLE NEWS NETWORK, INC., A TIME WARNER COMPANY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

[Scott Lloyd]

Any reason why we should have two separate threads on the same topic?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

BTW it is not just about LGBT rights but every one's rights must not be infringed.

[Scott Lloyd]

And once again, Elder Christofferson said the doctrine of the Church is not changing.

 

Some people here have trouble grasping that fact. For some reason, they think Elder Christofferson, in contradiction to his brethren of the Twelve, is soft on homosexual behavior being sinful.

[Daniel2]

Another take on the press conference:

Mormon leaders call for measures protecting gay rights

http://news.yahoo.com/mormon-leaders-gay-rights-religious-rights-must-joined-172041843.html

Associated Press By BRADY McCOMBS and RACHEL ZOLL 2 hours ago

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Mormon church leaders are making a national appeal for a "balanced approach" in the clash between gay rights and religious freedom.

The church is promising to support some housing and job protections for gays and lesbians in exchange for legal protections for believers who object to the behavior of others.

It's not clear how much common ground the Mormons will find with this new campaign. The church insists it is making no changes in doctrine, and still believes it's against the law of God to have sex outside marriage between a man and a woman.

But church leaders who held a rare news conference Tuesday said "we must all learn to live with others who do not share the same beliefs or values."

The language of the new campaign mirrors a website the church launched in 2012 instructing Latter-day Saints to be more accepting and compassionate toward gays. The church made clear then and now that it still opposes gay marriage and insists on its right to apply its own rules within church-affiliated charities, schools, businesses and properties, even those that provide services to non-Mormons.

The church announced the campaign in a rare news conference including three elders from a high-level Mormon governing body called the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.

Church leaders condemned discrimination against gays in stark terms, speaking of centuries of "persecution and even violence against homosexuals." bc

"Ultimately, most of society recognized that such treatment was simply wrong, and that such basic human rights as securing a job or a place to live should not depend on a person's sexual orientation," Neill Marriott, a member of the church's Public Affairs Committee, said in a prepared text ahead of the news conference.

Mormon leaders still want to hire and fire workers based not only on religious beliefs, but also on behavior standards known as honor codes that require gays and lesbians to remain celibate or marry someone of the opposite sex. The church also wants legal protections for religious objectors who work in government and health care, such as a physician who refuses to perform an abortion, or provide artificial insemination for a lesbian couple.

"Accommodating the rights of all people — including their religious rights — requires wisdom and judgment, compassion and fairness," said Jeffrey R. Holland, one of the apostles. "Politically, it certainly requires dedication to the highest level of statesmanship. Nothing is achieved if either side resorts to bullying, political point scoring or accusations of bigotry."

Accommodations for religious objectors have factored into every state legislative debate over gay rights. But political pressure on rights groups to make concessions to religious conservatives is plummeting as support for same-sex marriage grows around the country. In some states, such as Arizona, business leaders now side with gay advocates, saying extensive religious exemptions hurt a state's image.

When the U.S. Supreme Court set a broad expansion of gay marriage in motion last year, religious conservatives said they would press states to allow some groups, companies and people to refuse some benefits or service for gay spouses. And gay rights groups seeking job and housing protections have faced an uphill battle in the more politically and religiously conservative states. Under these circumstances, advocates for broader religious exceptions believe they can win some concessions.

The Mormon church operates an extensive network of charities, schools and for-profit businesses around the country, with total operating budgets in the billions of dollars, but the new LDS approach is likely to be especially significant in the Mormon strongholds of Utah, Idaho, Nevada and Arizona, where the church and its members play a large civic role.

After coming under intense criticism for leading the fight for California's Proposition 8, church leaders have been trying to heal tensions by telling Latter-day Saints to be more loving and respectful toward gays and lesbians, while appealing to gay and lesbian Mormons to stay in the church.

I'm not sure yet that I agree with the church's compromise, but I appreciate the efforts and chance for thoughtful dialogue.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Daniel2

[Daniel2]

Any reason why we should have two separate threads on the same topic?

Didn't realize from the titles that another thread was on the same subject. Mods can merge them if they feel so inclined.

[Boanerges]

And once again, Elder Christofferson said the doctrine of the Church is not changing.

 

Some people here have trouble grasping that fact. For some reason, they think Elder Christofferson, in contradiction to his brethren of the Twelve, is soft on homosexual behavior being sinful.

 

I don't think he's soft, but I do think he has a different and more compassionate point of view on the subject than some of his colleagues might.

 

And, I agree with him - no doctrine has changed here. I am fairly minimalist in what I consider to be doctrine anyway, but it doesn't matter of basic human rights are doctrine or policy - nothing changed here. The church does believe in human rights, the church does believe in allowing people to choose who, what, where, and how they worship, etc.

 

In a way I'm a bit puzzled why they felt it necessary to have a press conference, although I do understand this may be a legislative item in Utah and is therefore pertinent to members there (of which there are no small number). Living in a much more liberal state, this type of legislation was hashed out years ago without much ado - and rightly so.

[Kenngo1969]

I don't think he's soft, but I do think he has a different and more compassionate point of view on the subject than some of his colleagues might.

 

 

That's interesting.  Is that thought based on something other than, or in addition to, your own mere inference, and, if so, would you be willing to give us something more (and more concrete) to go on?  (C'mon, Boanerges!  Throw us a bone! )

Edited January 27, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[Scott Lloyd]

I don't think he's soft, but I do think he has a different and more compassionate point of view on the subject than some of his colleagues might.

 

I don't think that does justice to his colleagues, all of whom are good and kind men. But this is all speculative anyway. There is no denying that they are unified in their position that homosexual behavior is wrong

 

And, I agree with him - no doctrine has changed here. I am fairly minimalist in what I consider to be doctrine anyway, but it doesn't matter of basic human rights are doctrine or policy - nothing changed here. The church does believe in human rights, the church does believe in allowing people to choose who, what, where, and how they worship, etc.

Elder Christofferson is on record as saying that the Church's position on the only proper expression of sexuality being between a married man and woman is central to God's plan, that homosexual behavior is wrong and always will be. Some have supposed that Elder Christofferson did not believe that, due to his family circumstances, but in this, they are engaging in vain imaginings.

 

In a way I'm a bit puzzled why they felt it necessary to have a press conference, although I do understand this may be a legislative item in Utah and is therefore pertinent to members there (of which there are no small number). Living in a much more liberal state, this type of legislation was hashed out years ago without much ado - and rightly so.

 

On the contrary, from a reporting I've read (some of which has not yet been published) the impression I get is that the news conference is very global and universal in its reach, extending not just to Utah or the United States, but the world in general in light of events happening everywhere.

 

The impression that this is just a Utah thing is, in itself, a provincial outlook.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

Another take on the press conference:

I'm not sure yet that I agree with the church's compromise, but I appreciate the efforts and chance for thoughtful dialogue.

What compromise?

[USU78]

I still ain't baking nobody no cake.

[Scott Lloyd]

I still ain't baking nobody no cake.

And I will stand with you in your refusal.

[Kenngo1969]

... The impression that this is just a Utah thing is, in itself, a provincial outlook.

You dare to suggest that enlightened, intelligent, broad-minded, liberal folk outside of Utah possibly could be provincial?!!!

 

Perish the thought!

 

 

Sincerely,

 

Ken, President of D*** Utah Mormons

[Scott Lloyd]

You dare to suggest that enlightened, intelligent, broad-minded, liberal folk outside of Utah possibly could be provincial?!!!

 

Perish the thought!

 

 

Sincerely,

 

Ken, President of D*** Utah Mormons

I call it reverse provincialism.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I still ain't baking nobody no cake.

I think this is part of the point they are making in their press release.

[USU78]

I think this is part of the point they are making in their press release.

 

And the only point the NYT got out of it.

[Daniel2]

The Human Rights Campaign, the country's largest LGBT organization, responds to the church's press conference:

HRC to LDS Leadership: True Protections Shouldn’t Leave Anyone Behind

http://www.hrc.org/m/blog/hrc-to-lds-leadership-true-protections-shouldnt-leave-anyone-behind

P January 27, 2015 U Liz Halloran

Today, HRC recognized the three apostles and a senior female leader of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for their televised statement in support of housing, workplace and public accommodation protections for LGBT people.

“Symbolically, seeing the church leaders advocating so openly for these protections will no doubt be deeply meaningful to Mormon families with LGBT members, and provide encouragement to LGBT youth in the church,” said HRC Legal Director Sarah Warbelow. “But, as a matter of public policy, it appears deeply flawed.”

Doctors would still be allowed to deny medical care. Pharmacists would still be allowed to refuse to fill valid prescriptions. And landlords, as well as business operators, would still be allowed to reject LGBT people. All in the name of religion.

“We share the church’s commitment to freedom of religion. We embrace the principles of the First Amendment and believe churches do and should have the right to make determinations about who fills their pews. But non-discrimination protections only function when they are applied equally,” Warbelow said.  "It should be stated that there are countless LGBT Mormons, and Mormon allies, who support equality, not in spite of their faith but because of it."

The Mormon church in recent years has been adjusting its language around LGBT people to be kinder, more accepting. Today’s announcement reflected that, but falls far short of embracing full inclusion and equality for LGBT people.

“All Americans should have the right to be employed, receive housing and services in environments free of discrimination,” Warbelow said. "We await the day the church embraces that fully, without any exceptions or exemptions.”

[Daniel2]

The Human Rights Campaign, the country's largest LGBT organization, responds to the church's press conference:

HRC to LDS Leadership: True Protections Shouldn’t Leave Anyone Behind

http://www.hrc.org/m/blog/hrc-to-lds-leadership-true-protections-shouldnt-leave-anyone-behind

P January 27, 2015 U Liz Halloran

Today, HRC recognized the three apostles and a senior female leader of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for their televised statement in support of housing, workplace and public accommodation protections for LGBT people.

“Symbolically, seeing the church leaders advocating so openly for these protections will no doubt be deeply meaningful to Mormon families with LGBT members, and provide encouragement to LGBT youth in the church,” said HRC Legal Director Sarah Warbelow. “But, as a matter of public policy, it appears deeply flawed.”

Doctors would still be allowed to deny medical care. Pharmacists would still be allowed to refuse to fill valid prescriptions. And landlords, as well as business operators, would still be allowed to reject LGBT people. All in the name of religion.

“We share the church’s commitment to freedom of religion. We embrace the principles of the First Amendment and believe churches do and should have the right to make determinations about who fills their pews. But non-discrimination protections only function when they are applied equally,” Warbelow said.  "It should be stated that there are countless LGBT Mormons, and Mormon allies, who support equality, not in spite of their faith but because of it."

The Mormon church in recent years has been adjusting its language around LGBT people to be kinder, more accepting. Today’s announcement reflected that, but falls far short of embracing full inclusion and equality for LGBT people.

“All Americans should have the right to be employed, receive housing and services in environments free of discrimination,” Warbelow said. "We await the day the church embraces that fully, without any exceptions or exemptions.”

[JLHPROF]

I still ain't baking nobody no cake.

 

A wise man once said "Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose".

If giving one person rights takes away another person's rights it should not be legislated.

[Scott Lloyd]

The Human Rights Campaign, the country's largest LGBT organization, responds to the church's press conference:

 

Whining combined with lip service paid to "freedom of religion," which, apparently, to them means "you are free to practice your religion as long as you keep it shut up within closed doors and don't try to express it or act on it out in public."

[emarkp]

And I will stand with you in your refusal.

But you won't bust him out of prison when California Boy's brownshirts throw him in prison, or pay for the kids' raising when said brownshirts take away his living. Which makes you pretty damned useless.

But I'm sure you'll feel righteous when you're rotting in prison.

Edited January 28, 2015 by emarkp

[Boanerges]

That's interesting.  Is that thought based on something other than, or in addition to, your own mere inference, and, if so, would you be willing to give us something more (and more concrete) to go on?  (C'mon, Boanerges!  Throw us a bone! )

It's based on the fact that he has a gay brother who actively participates in his ward and whom Elder Christofferson (and the rest of the family) loves.

[Boanerges]

 

On the contrary, from a reporting I've read (some of which has not yet been published) the impression I get is that the news conference is very global and universal in its reach, extending not just to Utah or the United States, but the world in general in light of events happening everywhere.

 

The impression that this is just a Utah thing is, in itself, a provincial outlook.

Yeah, except Utah is behind the curve on this one and most states already have nondiscrimination laws protecting the rights of Gays the same way race and gender are protected, and have had them for years. They made no statement when this came up in other states. Clearly the church has a large presence in Utah, and I'm cool with that. While the overall statement that the church supports protection of basic human rights is great, but it only came up because of Utah politics.

[Boanerges]

I don't think that does justice to his colleagues, all of whom are good and kind men. But this is all speculative anyway. There is no denying that they are unified in their position that homosexual behavior is wrong

 

 I don't disagree they are all good men, not did I indicate that any of them believe sexual sin of any kind to be OK. Consensus, however, does not indicate total agreement. I think none of us can deny that when we have a personal relationship with someone who involved with cancer, for instance, that our view of cancer doesn't change somewhat. I was YMP to a couple of boys who as adults are openly gay. I still love them, I don't agree with their lifestyle - and I also have more compassion for gays than I did before I knew this about them.

[canard78]

Press conferences like this only serve as a reminder that Mormonism remains a highly American-centric church.