Reinstatement

[Ham Clam]

... and I've always been curious about the Jehovah's Witnesses. There's a strong Mormon internet presents (blogs, chat boards, bookstore, podcasts), but the things I see about the JW are mainly exposes. Where's the talking JW talking? 

[Bexyboo]

Jw's are forbidden to engage in online discussion because they inevitably engage apostates. Jwits are expected to not mix with anyone who isn't a Jwit, as such the only proselytizing that they do is house to house. 

[Bexyboo]

... and I've always been curious about the Jehovah's Witnesses. There's a strong Mormon internet presents (blogs, chat boards, bookstore, podcasts), but the things I see about the JW are mainly exposes. Where's the talking JW talking? 

Jw's are forbidden to engage in online discussion because they inevitably engage apostates. Jwits are expected to not mix with anyone who isn't a Jwit, as such the only proselytizing that they do is house to house. 

[Bexyboo]

FAIRMormon is our largest apologetics group out there. As an apologetics group, I wouldn't call it totally "unbiaist", but it's a good place to look at the positive and springboard into more learning. Frankly, Mormonism takes a heck of a long time to understand. Check out their bookstore for some good recommendations.

There is also the Mormon History Association (MHA) publication. They have many issues archived.

Greg Kofford Books is a great Mormon book publisher.

And don't forget BYU Studies or the Maxwell Institute!

 

Good Luck. 

 

 

Thanks for the tips i'll check them out. I'm on fair Mormon atm but i'm having a hard time navigating it but i'll get the hang of it. I have no doubt FM is bias too, but at least one expects an apologetic site to be biased, MT claim to be completely unbiased when in reality that's all they are.

[Ham Clam]

I think that just took you to the wiki page. Cant really get to the home page from there.

... and Oh, well I'm sure there would be a very interesting online community if they could have one.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Ham Clam

[Tacenda]

Bexyboo,  http://www.fairmormonsupport.org/  If you need to discuss on FairMormon but be forewarned there are people that are in crisis over their belief in Mormonism, just as they are in your former JW faith.. it's becoming an epidemic I believe, maybe secularism is a big problem, or the homosexual community needing equality, and religions that are against SSM.  Or they, like me, find unsavory history facts that they weren't told after being in the church most of their lives.

 

ETA:  Just saw this JW Discussion Board.  It was just a click away, no searching whatsoever. http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/ it's eerily close to what some of our non faith promoting discussion boards are. 

Edited December 5, 2014 by Tacenda

[Bexyboo]

Bexyboo,  http://www.fairmormonsupport.org/  If you need to discuss on FairMormon but be forewarned there are people that are in crisis over their belief in Mormonism, just as they are in your former JW faith.. it's becoming an epidemic I believe, maybe secularism is a big problem, or the homosexual community needing equality, and religions that are against SSM.  Or they, like me, find unsavory history facts that they weren't told after being in the church most of their lives.

 

ETA:  Just saw this JW Discussion Board.  It was just a click away, no searching whatsoever. http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/ it's eerily close to what some of our non faith promoting discussion boards are. 

 

Thanks for the web sites, i just joined fair mormon, hopefully it will provide me with the info i need to make a self informed choice. And touch wood it's not too toxic, i used to belong to a lot of ex jwit support groups etc.. but eventually found they became too toxic. I don't like holding on to anger, sooner or later you have to choose to let your past go and stop letting it define you. As a result i found it healthier for me to walk away from the support groups so i could self identify as Becky and not as an ex-jdub. (I hope that makes sense) 

[Bexyboo]

I think that just took you to the wiki page. Cant really get to the home page from there.

... and Oh, well I'm sure there would be a very interesting online community if they could have one.

 

At least i have a place to start looking now. Thank you! 

[Ham Clam]

Hey Bexyboo,

I'm on the Fair Mormon Support as 'dinosaurpaint'.

There are some really thoughtful people on there so I think you should be well received..

[Bexyboo]

Hey Bexyboo,

I'm on the Fair Mormon Support as 'dinosaurpaint'.

There are some really thoughtful people on there so I think you should be well received..

 

I joined under beccaboo but i'm still waiting for approval by the mods, i was able to view a few threads though and i'm glad to say most convo's look like well thought discussions, there were a couple highly emotional responses to questions but for the most part, members appear to really be thinking about things. I like that, that is what i need, a place to really talk about things with thoughtful people. 

[Calm]

Fair Mormon is supposed to be impartial but from what i've read it's passive aggressive and bias, it's a transparent agenda imo is to discredit the LDS church. Suffice to say i have not found it impartial enough to behelpful

No, we never claim to be impartial, most definitely not. Never have, this is a myth that has been created about us that we never claimed for ourselves. We are clear we are there to defend the Church and approach it from a devout believers' position.

To discredit the Church? I think you are confused. We are all quite committed to the Church and if anyone were found to be attempting to discredit the Church, they would be gone in a second....and I might be the one to boot them as I am the volunteer over the membership stuff.

We have a rule that if the Church leadership ever asks us to stop we will do so immediately, they never have....and yes, they are aware of us. Scott Lloyd who works for the Church News has done stories on us for several years, Deseret News has as well, there are even a few references to our site from lds.org for those who wish to go into more depth.

Some of the information can be painful to read, but if you read the full amount and go over many pages, I think you will be able to see a faithful and strong belief in the prophets and revelation can exist side by side with the full history. In fact the more I learn the stronger my personal faith is even though it is clear mistakes have been made in the past.

Please point out where you feel it is discrediting the Church please.

[Garden Girl]

Please point out where you feel it is discrediting the Church please.

 

This confused me also... given the purpose of fairmormon is defending the faith...

 

GG

[Calm]

Thanks for the web sites, i just joined fair mormon, hopefully it will provide me with the info i need to make a self informed choice. And touch wood it's not too toxic, i used to belong to a lot of ex jwit support groups etc.. but eventually found they became too toxic. I don't like holding on to anger, sooner or later you have to choose to let your past go and stop letting it define you. As a result i found it healthier for me to walk away from the support groups so i could self identify as Becky and not as an ex-jdub. (I hope that makes sense)

I am a moderator on FM support board, please if you find any negativity report it. We are very much attempting to help people focus on the positive aspects of belief even if they feel overwhelmed by doubt at the moment.

We are actually working on approaching it differently but I've gotten very distracted with my mom and Dad's move and they are waiting for something from me before moving to next stage. I should draft the entire board here to nag me until I get it done.

[Tacenda]

I am a moderator on FM support board, please if you find any negativity report it. We are very much attempting to help people focus on the positive aspects of belief even if they feel overwhelmed by doubt at the moment.

We are actually working on approaching it differently but I've gotten very distracted with my mom and Dad's move and they are waiting for something from me before moving to next stage. I should draft the entire board here to nag me until I get it done.

I hate to say it but some people find a lot of what is on FairMormon disheartening.  They think they have questions about 2 or 3 things and boom-o there are many more they had no idea about.  But I'm grateful for FairMormon and the ability that I had in the past of bringing those tough questions to an apologist (Greg Smith).  It helped because I had absolutely zero persons to discuss with other than the ones just like me, until Greg.  So it's needed I believe.   

[Ham Clam]

Yea, the wiki-format can back-fire  

I could like to think they'd just heard the rest of the problems anyways, but in some cases I think people are self-selecting enough that they woouldn't have. 

[Coreyb]

Fair Mormon is supposed to be impartial but from what i've read it's passive aggressive and bias, it's a transparent agenda imo is to discredit the LDS church. Suffice to say i have not found it impartial enough to behelpful

Both fair mormon and mormon think are bias. Complete objectivity about a subject like mormonism is impossible. If you read from one, read from the other just as much. Also, spend most of your time reading the sources that they cite. The problem with online mormonism is that it fools people into thinking they are an expert on a subject just because they read a long blog post or listened to an emotional podcast about it. Don't fall into that trap, read books

[Bexyboo]

No, we never claim to be impartial, most definitely not. Never have, this is a myth that has been created about us that we never claimed for ourselves. We are clear we are there to defend the Church and approach it from a devout believers' position.

To discredit the Church? I think you are confused. We are all quite committed to the Church and if anyone were found to be attempting to discredit the Church, they would be gone in a second....and I might be the one to boot them as I am the volunteer over the membership stuff.

We have a rule that if the Church leadership ever asks us to stop we will do so immediately, they never have....and yes, they are aware of us. Scott Lloyd who works for the Church News has done stories on us for several years, Deseret News has as well, there are even a few references to our site from lds.org for those who wish to go into more depth.

Some of the information can be painful to read, but if you read the full amount and go over many pages, I think you will be able to see a faithful and strong belief in the prophets and revelation can exist side by side with the full history. In fact the more I learn the stronger my personal faith is even though it is clear mistakes have been made in the past.

Please point out where you feel it is discrediting the Church please.

 

No, we never claim to be impartial, most definitely not. Never have, this is a myth that has been created about us that we never claimed for ourselves. We are clear we are there to defend the Church and approach it from a devout believers' position.

To discredit the Church? I think you are confused. We are all quite committed to the Church and if anyone were found to be attempting to discredit the Church, they would be gone in a second....and I might be the one to boot them as I am the volunteer over the membership stuff.

We have a rule that if the Church leadership ever asks us to stop we will do so immediately, they never have....and yes, they are aware of us. Scott Lloyd who works for the Church News has done stories on us for several years, Deseret News has as well, there are even a few references to our site from lds.org for those who wish to go into more depth.

Some of the information can be painful to read, but if you read the full amount and go over many pages, I think you will be able to see a faithful and strong belief in the prophets and revelation can exist side by side with the full history. In fact the more I learn the stronger my personal faith is even though it is clear mistakes have been made in the past.

Please point out where you feel it is discrediting the Church please.

 

I'm so SORRY i wrote fair mormon, i meant to write Mormon think. I muddled up my websites. 

[Bexyboo]

Fair Mormon is supposed to be impartial but from what i've read it's passive aggressive and bias, it's a transparent agenda imo is to discredit the LDS church. Suffice to say i have not found it impartial enough to behelpful

 

Correction Mormon Think, that is supposed to read Mormon Think

[Bexyboo]

This confused me also... given the purpose of fairmormon is defending the faith...

 

GG

'

Sorry that was supposed to read Mormon Think, Sorry i didn't mean or even realize i had types fair mormon. 

[Ham Clam]

Okay, now we got it, Bexyboo! 

[Calm]

No problem.

[Stargazer]

'

Sorry that was supposed to read Mormon Think, Sorry i didn't mean or even realize i had types fair mormon.

I must not get out as much as I thought I did. Up to this thread I had never heard of Mormon Think. Thanks for increasing my knowledge store.

[Bexyboo]

I thought i'd follow up with a "what's happened so far" I was too sick on Sunday to make it to church, i woke with a migraine and spent the day vomiting, I've been under the weather ever since. So i didn't get a chance to visit with my bishop but he did call me tonight, unfortunately i missed that call as i'd turned my phone off, because i was resting, by the time i checked my phone it was 10pm and i didn't want to call at that hour, so i'll try him tomorrow and hopefully we'll catch each other. 

[Bexyboo]

For what it's worth this was my disassociation letter and my subsequent "I've changed my mind letter" I thought i'd share it with you since people have asked. The disassociation letter is a copy of the one my exmo friend gave me to send in. 

 

This letter is my formal resignation from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and it is effective immediately. I hereby withdraw my consent to being treated as a member and I withdraw my consent to being subject to church rules, policies, beliefs and 'discipline'. As I am no longer a member, I want my name permanently and completely removed from the membership rolls of the church.

I have given this matter considerable thought. I understand what you consider the 'seriousness' and the 'consequences' of my actions. I am aware that the church handbook says that my resignation "cancels the effects of baptism and confirmation, withdraws the priesthood held by a male member and revokes temple blessings" I also understand that I will be "readmitted to the church by baptism only after a thorough interview".

Let me make myself clear, I DO NOT BELIVE IN JOSEPH SMITH, THE PROPHETS, OR APOSTLES!!! I DO NOT BELIEVE IN CREATION AND I DO NOT BELIVE IN THE CHURCH, THERE IS NO SALVATION THROUGH LDS INC!!! The church is an abusive cult like religion preying on members and society for its own financial gains.

My resignation should be processed immediately, without any 'waiting periods'. I am not going to be dissuaded and I am not going to change my mind.

I expect this matter to be handled promptly, with respect and with full confidentiality.

After today, the only contact I want from the church is a single letter of confirmation to letting me know that I am no longer listed as a member of the church.

Any member attempting to visit me at my home will be arrested and prosecuted for stalking harassment and trespassing. NO means NO, LDS members are NOT exempt from obeying my NO RELIGIOUS CALLERS and NO CANVASERS SIGNS!!!

You legally have 72 hours to remove my name from your records as I waive your 30 day holding period policy. Refusing to or ignoring my request for resignation will also be prosecuted under article 18 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights by the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission (HREOC).

Sincerely,

 

 

 

 

This is my "i've changed my mind letter" 

 

I am wondering if it is possible to withdraw my “withdrawal” from membership of the church? I recently wrote in using a letter given to me by a friend to withdraw my membership from the church, however it has come to my attention that the information given to me by my friend about the church may not be accurate. I have begun reading Mormon think for myself and I am finding many inconsistencies and “cherry picked” arguments. For example, my friend and Mormon think claim Joseph was a great story teller and thus the book of Mormon is just another work of fiction like for example Lord of the Rings. But after checking for myself I find the “great stories” they claim, Joseph’s mother talked about, were in fact BOM stories and only started after the first vision. They also claim Joseph copied much of the BOM from the book “View of the Hebrews” but then claim that book was only released 5 years before the BOM. The arguments make no sense, either Joseph began citing BOM stories as a kid after the first vision, as his mother claimed or, he copied the whole BOM from another book. They also claim Joseph could not have been as illiterate as Emma and others stated because both Joseph Snr and Hyrum were part time school teachers, but why then did they not also teach him proper grammar. I am yet to meet a teacher who isn’t a “grammar nazi”

Mormon think and my friend claim that if one problem can be found then surely that brings into question the whole LDS teachings, by that definition I can apply the same theory to Mormon think and my friends’ logic. Currently I am not personally sure what to believe, I was a Jehovah witnesses till the age of 24 and spent 7 years in full time preaching service to them. Losing my faith was one of the most traumatic experiences of my life, I would not wish that loss and subsequent emptiness on anyone, but for the same reason I am hesitant to blindly follow another religious organisation. I have often felt that I was baptised too soon and before I had a proper knowledge and foundation in the LDS faith, but similarly I am not now comfortable to hastily remove my name from your membership records on what now appears to be the illegitimate heresy of a friend. I would like therefore to cancel, my request to withdraw my membership from the church.

 

Kind Regards

 

 

Hopefully it's enough for the Bishop to at least consider re-instating me

[Ham Clam]

You may need to get re-baptized. I'm not too sure how the process works or how long ago you sent in your first letter.