Latest On The Kennewick Man

[LinuxGal]

Decay doesn't begin until the death of the body. If there was no death during the creative periods, then the story of the fall of Adam contradicts the science of dating.

 

 

Everyone assumes that Adam and Eve where created inherently immortal, and lost this power by their sin.  What they don't consider is that the Tree of Life was in the garden even before they fell, and God did not forbid them from eating from it until after they fell.  The implication is obvious to anyone with a lick of sense:   Immortality was maintained by a regular diet of fruit from the Tree of Life.

[ERayR]

Everyone assumes that Adam and Eve where created inherently immortal, and lost this power by their sin.  What they don't consider is that the Tree of Life was in the garden even before they fell, and God did not forbid them from eating from it until after they fell.  The implication is obvious to anyone with a lick of sense:   Immortality was maintained by a regular diet of fruit from the Tree of Life.

 

So the fall came from a change of diet.  Interesting idea.  Brigham Young said basically the same thing.

[katherine the great]

Wow.  This thread is getting a little weird.

[Pinecone]

Wow.  This thread is getting a little weird.

Actually, the fall in knowledge came about when Lucy the Australopithecus hominid gave some fruit to Dr. Donald Johanson, Yves Coppens and Tim White in the Middle Awash of Ethiopia's Afar Depression, who discovered her bones.

[katherine the great]

Actually, the fall in knowledge came about when Lucy the Australopithecus hominid gave some fruit to Dr. Donald Johanson, Yves Coppens and Tim White in the Middle Awash of Ethiopia's Afar Depression, who discovered her bones.

I don't get it.

[ERayR]

Actually, the fall in knowledge came about when Lucy the Australopithecus hominid gave some fruit to Dr. Donald Johanson, Yves Coppens and Tim White in the Middle Awash of Ethiopia's Afar Depression, who discovered her bones.

 

I don't get it.

 

An attempt at humor I would guess. 

[katherine the great]

An attempt at humor I would guess.

.

[Pinecone]

.

Well, everyone knows we should be thankful this day to learn from science that a 3' tall homonid named Lucy was one of our ancestors.

[Sevenbak]

So the fall came from a change of diet.  Interesting idea.  Brigham Young said basically the same thing.

Yeah, it was called the forbidden fruit.

[Robert F. Smith]

Well, everyone knows we should be thankful this day to learn from science that a 3' tall homonid named Lucy was one of our ancestors.

So you accept evolution, Pinecone?  You are aware that Lucy is not Homo sapiens?  Well, perhaps not.

[LinuxGal]

Well, everyone knows we should be thankful this day to learn from science that a 3' tall homonid named Lucy was one of our ancestors.

 

She was the first equestrienne on Earth, but the horses she cared for were sort of small too.

[katherine the great]

Well, everyone knows we should be thankful this day to learn from science that a 3' tall homonid named Lucy was one of our ancestors.

She was 3 and a half feet tall.  Male australopiths were sometimes as tall as 5'--very similar in every way to Homo habilis with the exception of brain size.  And yes, I am thankful to know that Lucy was one of our ancestors (or at least a relative.)  I like big, crazy families. 

[Robert F. Smith]

Decay doesn't begin until the death of the body. If there was no death during the creative periods, then the story of the fall of Adam contradicts the science of dating.

So, who told you that there was no death during the creative periods?  As I have said before, we have no reason to imagine that the Garden on the east of Eden had the same conditions as the rest of the planet.  It alone was a Garden of immortality in the midst of which was the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge.  Once the Fall occurred, Adam & Eve were ejected from that exclusive Garden (actually a temple) into the cruel and fallen Terrestrial world.  Flaming sword and cherubim blocked reentry.  This is what you are overlooking, and that is huge!

[katherine the great]

So, who told you that there was no death during the creative periods?  As I have said before, we have no reason to imagine that the Garden on the east of Eden had the same conditions as the rest of the planet.  It alone was a Garden of immortality in the midst of which was the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge.  Once the Fall occurred, Adam & Eve were ejected from that exclusive Garden (actually a temple) into the cruel and fallen Terrestrial world.  Flaming sword and cherubim blocked reentry.  This is what you are overlooking, and that is huge!

That's an interesting hypothesis.  Would you suggest that the cruel and fallen terrestrial world was already fully peopled?  I've felt for some time that Adam was the first "covenant" man but certainly not the first Homo sapien.

[Robert F. Smith]

That's an interesting hypothesis.  Would you suggest that the cruel and fallen terrestrial world was already fully peopled?  I've felt for some time that Adam was the first "covenant" man but certainly not the first Homo sapien.

A great suggestion katherine, and I have no problem with it.

How do the rest of you feel?

[Calm]

I have thought that way for a long time....how could the Garden be east of anything if it was the whole world? Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden but could still look back into it, etc.

It makes sense that if Genesis is a temple creation story that the Garden is a temple in essence, if a mountain can function in that way at times and even a river (in part for baptism of the dead).

And if the Garden was only part of the world, what is to stop life from continuing to progress and grow outside of it including the tribes of man from which God, IMO, took two humans from to consecrate themselves to him.

[LinuxGal]

That's an interesting hypothesis.  Would you suggest that the cruel and fallen terrestrial world was already fully peopled?  I've felt for some time that Adam was the first "covenant" man but certainly not the first Homo sapien.

 

There has been a suggestion that the "nephilim" of Genesis 6 were not the offspring of men and angels, but of the sons of god (descendants of Adam) and daughters of men (human beings who did not descend from the Edenic family).  This makes sense to me, because why would angels be equipped with those organs of joining associated with earthly existence?

[sunstoned]

I think it is best that the church back off from the literal interpenetration of Adam and Eve and the garden of Eden.  Without exception, anytime the views of religion have conflicted with science, the looser is religion.  The earth is much older than 6000 years (as stated in the Bible and D & C).  There has been an overwhelming amount  of evidence found that supports Evolution.  Most of us carry the DNA of Neanderthals.  There is a fossil (read: dead things) record extending back hundreds of thousand years, and the record shows that homo sapiens are late comers this living record.  This flies in the face of the "no death before the fall" teachings.  It is best we relegate these teachings to the "speaking as a man" folder and save us all a lot of embarrassment as we move forward in the twenty first century.  Other things to dump are the world wide flood and the tower of babel. 

 

are late comers to this 

[omni]

So, who told you that there was no death during the creative periods? As I have said before, we have no reason to imagine that the Garden on the east of Eden had the same conditions as the rest of the planet. It alone was a Garden of immortality in the midst of which was the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge. Once the Fall occurred, Adam & Eve were ejected from that exclusive Garden (actually a temple) into the cruel and fallen Terrestrial world. Flaming sword and cherubim blocked reentry. This is what you are overlooking, and that is huge!

This is a nice alternative explanation, however I bet you have trouble backing up your theory with scripture and authoritative statements from the brethren. The same cannot be said for the traditional view of no death anywhere before the Fall.

Edited December 1, 2014 by omni

[LinuxGal]

This is a nice alternate explanation, however I bet you have trouble backing up your theory with scripture and authoritative statements from the brethren. The same cannot be said for the traditional view of no death anywhere before the Fall.

 

Alma conditioned death on the lack of access to the Tree of Life.  Removing access to this tree was the Lord's penalty for Adam's fall, lest his word be made void.

 

Alma 12:23 And now behold, I say unto you that if it had been possible for Adam to have partaken of the fruit of the tree of life at that time, there would have been no death, and the word would have been void, making God a liar, for he said: If thou eat thou shalt surely die.

 

If you think about it, this means Adam and Eve were created in a mortal state.  Immortality required the Tree of Life.

[Vance]

Alma conditioned death on the lack of access to the Tree of Life.  Removing access to this tree was the Lord's penalty for Adam's fall, lest his word be made void.

 

Alma 12:23 And now behold, I say unto you that if it had been possible for Adam to have partaken of the fruit of the tree of life at that time, there would have been no death, and the word would have been void, making God a liar, for he said: If thou eat thou shalt surely die.

 

If you think about it, this means Adam and Eve were created in a mortal state.  Immortality required the Tree of Life.

Nah,  It just means that they had partaken of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, which resulted in their mortality.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Vance

[ERayR]

So, who told you that there was no death during the creative periods?  As I have said before, we have no reason to imagine that the Garden on the east of Eden had the same conditions as the rest of the planet.  It alone was a Garden of immortality in the midst of which was the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge.  Once the Fall occurred, Adam & Eve were ejected from that exclusive Garden (actually a temple) into the cruel and fallen Terrestrial world.  Flaming sword and cherubim blocked reentry.  This is what you are overlooking, and that is huge!

A position that I have taken, and taught to my family, for quite some time. 

[LinuxGal]

Nah,  It just means that they had partaken of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, which resulted in their mortality.

 

Why would there BE a Tree of Life at all, if they were created immortal, unless God likes a challenge of seeing if he can kick them out of the Garden before they ate of it after they fell and became immortal again?   Seriously, doesn't anyone consider what the scriptures actually say?

[Thinking]

So, who told you that there was no death during the creative periods?

 

You must not have read my entire post, otherwise you would have read this.

Latter-day revelation teaches that there was no death on this earth before the Fall of Adam. Indeed, death entered the world as a direct result of the Fall. Link

[ERayR]

You must not have read my entire post, otherwise you would have read this.

Quote

Latter-day revelation teaches that there was no death on this earth before the Fall of Adam. Indeed, death entered the world as a direct result of the Fall. Link

Please cite the revelation you are referring to.  I do not deny that there are some who have interpreted the creation narrative this way.  However, IMNSHO it is not the best understanding.