JLHPROF Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Dear Drums -Polygamy was simply wrong and a mistake, but due to our upbringing we have been led to believe that prophets don't make mistakes. Joseph Smith would have been the first to tell you he was very flawed and made many mistakes, just like all prophets past, present and future. Polygamy just happens to be a very big mistake. Remember Joseph Smith did many great and inspiring things. He taught that we are never required to trust any man, including himself, but we can talk to God and get revelation from God DIRECTLY, just like he did. God will tell you what you need to do if you can put aside the baggage you have collected about how a relationship with God works, (i.e. if you don't get the right answer you are doing something wrong). Dropping baggage was the single most important thing I did when facing doubt. I sincerely hope you to stay with us. That you help us build a new future for our tribe. But its not for me to say if this is your path. You must be true to yourself, God and your path. Good Luck and God Bless Completely, 100%, absolutely, disagree. (Except for the part where I too hope you stay with us). Edited January 17, 2015 by JLHPROF
Calm Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Dear Drums -Polygamy was simply wrong and a mistake, but due to our upbringing we have been led to believe that prophets don't make mistakes.But it is just not prophets….there were all the women who gave their own personal testimony not of the prophet's witness but of their own spiritual witness (and men, but for me the women count more because I see them as more likely in general to resist accepting plural marriage in the long run, there may have been individual men that had as significant issues that needed resolving as the women but in general when I read experiences it seems women recognized more issues existed with it past just personal distaste)I am not claiming Joseph got everything right or even a majority right, I just don't see how one can completely remove plural marriage as inspired by God from the table given the many witnesses of it, I just don't but they all talked themselves into it because they were so certain Joseph was a prophet. Edited January 17, 2015 by calmoriah 1
Avatar4321 Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 What has the Lord said about this to you? He has told me that Joseph Smith was a prophet.was he flawed? Yes. I don't think his plural marriages we flaws but if they were does being a polygamist mean you can't be a prophet? The scriptures make that clear. Even David was still acknowledged as inspired of God and he went way beyond anything Joseph did.if you have a problem with something Joseph did, forgive him. It's better to have a flawed prophet lading us to Christ then no prophet at all. And the doctrine he taught is still true. 1
mass168 Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 The part of this whole debate that is particularly troubling to me is the sealings to women who were already married. Even if you can come up with some reason for why these sealings were necessary in some spiritual sense, it still just feels like adultery. Anyways, if this has already been discussed in detail in another thread, could someone point me there? Would be much appreciated.
JLHPROF Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 The part of this whole debate that is particularly troubling to me is the sealings to women who were already married. Even if you can come up with some reason for why these sealings were necessary in some spiritual sense, it still just feels like adultery. Anyways, if this has already been discussed in detail in another thread, could someone point me there? Would be much appreciated. This has been debated ad nauseum and to no conclusion. The bottom line doctrinally is that civil marriage was seen by members at the time as inferior to eternal sealings, and even by some as non-binding. The women chose who they would rather have for eternal companions - their civil husbands or their priesthood leaders. They have that right and the agency to do so just as we would expect the right to choose our own spouse. Brigham Young also taught the same doctrine, and for those who understand the higher ordinances (and the woman with the ointment) it is a clear part of our religion. But, no, there has been no inarguable conclusion.
mass168 Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 This has been debated ad nauseum and to no conclusion. The bottom line doctrinally is that civil marriage was seen by members at the time as inferior to eternal sealings, and even by some as non-binding. The women chose who they would rather have for eternal companions - their civil husbands or their priesthood leaders. They have that right and the agency to do so just as we would expect the right to choose our own spouse. Brigham Young also taught the same doctrine, and for those who understand the higher ordinances (and the woman with the ointment) it is a clear part of our religion. But, no, there has been no inarguable conclusion.Some of the husbands were faithful members though. I guess that's why you said "The women chose who they would rather have for eternal companions"?
Tacenda Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Some of the husbands were faithful members though. I guess that's why you said "The women chose who they would rather have for eternal companions"?I think JS let the power he had go to his head. I don't believe it's from God, but like some have said God uses imperfect people to get the work done I guess. And if the church is true, maybe Joseph was the best option. Even though I don't agree with it.
JLHPROF Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Some of the husbands were faithful members though. I guess that's why you said "The women chose who they would rather have for eternal companions"? If my memory is correct only 2 of Joseph's "married" wives had husbands who were active members of the Church at the time.
mass168 Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 If my memory is correct only 2 of Joseph's "married" wives had husbands who were active members of the Church at the time.It might have been only 2 I'm not sure, could have been 1 and I think it's still uncomfortable. Do you think God delights in that? Women choosing another eternal partner because he "looked" better? Celestial adultery? If that's even what happened. Some say Joseph chose the women, not the other way around. Social Hall is not for arguing.
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