The Right To Die

[LOSTONE]

I know this subject is very hot and loaded. Perhaps too much for me to be posting it here. It is also a subject very close to home and heart for me so I wanted to say something.

Read this young lady’s story. [ http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/26782974/terminally-ill- ] It’s heart breaking, but a reality for so many people older and younger people than her and their family and friends.

My dad died of terminal lung cancer. He didn’t have the right to die because of the state he lived in. So he suffered in pain and very strong medications that messed with his head. He suffered minute by minute, day after day until his final breath came. His final breath was brutal and painful. He suffered because he didn’t have the legal right not to. My mother was there with him all those days and to the very end. She suffered in her own way too and has these horrible memories of his suffering. A man she loves and these are the memories she has had to have in her day after day, year after year because the legal system didn’t allow him to die with dignity or peace. The legal system failed horribly in this case. My family also watched my dad die and they suffered as well. My aunt, my uncle, my grandma-in-law, a close friend of mine all died in similar fashions and suffer for the same stupid, idiotic reason my dad did. The legal system did not give them the right to die as they felt fit to given they were terminally ill with no realistic chance of suffering beyond the pain and suffering for the short time they had left. It’s wrong.

To say to someone that they can not die as they feel fit to and thus have to suffer so horribly and prolong and have their love ones see and remember that is wrong. Been there more than once and have yet to see where it’s right to deny the right to die of the terminally ill. I know there is a lot of debate and people say that no one should take their life’s, even the terminally ill, but I say bull. Watch someone you love suffer to horribly for so long until their final moments come and say what then? That the quality of life ( the suffering ) was worth the denial of the right to die for terminally ill? Watch it happen with more than one as I have and say what? At least their death was legal. Was morally correct. Say what to justify such unnecessary suffering of a human being, a love one.

I am a Christian and understand this issue with in the faith, but I also believe that there is some consideration and grace to those who are terminally ill and suffering. I am ‘Pro Right To Die’ because I know what it’s like not to be.

Sorry about this post. It was a rant because this young lady’s story brought up some very deep and painful emotions I try not to feel.

[rpn]

I suspect that this case was not in hospice care.    There is nothing illegal about giving terminally ill (or for that matter otherwise healthy) patients all the pain management care required.   It is true that sometimes doctors are afraid of regulatory agencies to the point where they won't successfully manage pain.    But using the pain card to defend assisted suicide is a red herring.   It doesn't have to be that kind of hobson's choice.

[LOSTONE]

The use of the so-called 'Pain Card' to defend assistant suicide is a valid defense in some cases. In the case of terminal case, such as this woman has my dad died of, it is justified because letting someone suffer is so not justifiable. The legal system has failed the basic rights of humanity to not allow the suffering of terminally ill cancer patients to end as comfortable as possible. If I was in this place with my life ( and I pray I never am ) I would want my right to end my suffering and those who love me from suffering. I think unless you have seen a love one suffer so badly as this, it's hard to understand being pro-right to die. I get that, but my focus and heart is on the suffering and not the outsiders who don't understand that.

[Tacenda]

deleted

Edited October 16, 2014 by Tacenda

[Guest]

There is already a thread "Dying with Dignity" running.

[rpn]

I guess I didn't make myself clear.  I meant that it is not illegal to give patients all the pain killers they need so they are comfortable.   That doesn't address the problem of Alzheimer's or similar diseases, though.

[3DOP]

I guess I didn't make myself clear.  I meant that it is not illegal to give patients all the pain killers they need so they are comfortable.   That doesn't address the problem of Alzheimer's or similar diseases, though.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. I misunderstood you, I thought you were always against suicide. No rep point from me for self-murder. 

[WysteriaBlue]

Dear Lostone,

 

I am so very sorry for all the pain and grief and unnecessary pain that your Dad and other family members have had to endure...

There is no easy answers and I hope you can find peace somehow.  It was very courageous for you to write about this as it is a very pertinent subject as seen in the other thread and all the newstories about the same lack of humane ways to let people pass with dignity and some sense of honour.

I have no answers either, but do think that at that point people must be insensible with pain and the doctors and others did indeed let you down.

lovingly,

wb

[LOSTONE]

@ Pa Pa ... So should this thread be removed?

 

@ rpn ...Thank you for clarifying what you where saying. I did get a different meaning before. I don't know about the cures. I just know that people should have the right not to suffer and the legal system shouldn't deny them that right. In the right to die, the legal system does just that and with my experiences, it's wrong.

 

** Everyone has the right to be believe what works best for them. I am not here to post anything to insult or judge anyone's believes. I just needed to get a release out for my own believes because the story of this young lady stirred up emotions I need not to carry around in me.

[Tacenda]

I guess I didn't make myself clear.  I meant that it is not illegal to give patients all the pain killers they need so they are comfortable.   That doesn't address the problem of Alzheimer's or similar diseases, though.

That does put a twist to it.  When the individual isn't quite brain dead, but is trapped in their bodies none the less.  I deleted my story of my Mom's bout with Alzheimer's, just decided to keep her out of this conversation.  She and her story are too sacred to me to share at this point, and I don't do her story justice.  You'd have to have been there in those 10 or so years to really get the picture. 

[LOSTONE]

@ Tacenda "You'd have to have been there in those 10 or so years to really get the picture." You said this perfectly. Unless you have had the experience of seeing a love one suffer, it is hard to understand the debate or feelings about the right to die. Sadly, you and I understand by experience. My best to you.

[Tacenda]

@ Tacenda "You'd have to have been there in those 10 or so years to really get the picture." You said this perfectly. Unless you have had the experience of seeing a love one suffer, it is hard to understand the debate or feelings about the right to die. Sadly, you and I understand by experience. My best to you.

No, I want to thank you! If I ever get the disease my Mom had, I think I'd rather die. But I guess some on here won't understand that stance, it really is a thing where you'd have to be there. I mentioned my mother was brave as all get out and unselfish. I think she'd have rather passed on to the other world, if there is one and lived with her parents and other siblings, and relatives then sit in a room, day after day, while people take care of her every need, including bodily functions, showering, eating.....she was a proud women, and modest to a "T"! Imagine her if she were aware of what happened on a daily basis? Why even male CNA's may have touched her private areas to wash or bathe or clean. I hope to heck she didn't know what was happening. Talk about hell. That my friend is something I'm not excited to have happen to me. I'm not my brave, heroic mother. But maybe she didn't want to be brave, she just wasn't able to tell anyone that. Again, hell.

Sorry for ranting. I may have to delete this also.

Best to you too, LOSTONE!!

ETA: My Dad died of a heart attack right before Mom passed, he was a very devoted husband, she had this disease for over 10 yrs. started with it around the age of 62 or so and died of it at the age of 75.

Also, I can't imagine the suffering your family dealt with also. My Mom's brothers suffered with early onset Alzheimer's also, and sounds like your Aunts/Uncles and others, suffered with the same thing your Father did. It is terrible, that we hate to see animals suffer and will ease their pain, but not the animals of the human kind I guess.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Tacenda

[VideoGameJunkie]

Tacenda, that's what I brought up in the other thread how we put animals to sleep to end their suffering, but when it comes to humans apparently we have to let them suffer until their last breath. It's not something I understand. I'm afraid of suffering. I'd rather go quickly and pain free. I have 2 best friends and their dads both died within 3 months of each other. One went quick where his aorta exploded and he was dead before he even knew it. No suffering. My other friend's dad died after a horrible battle with pancreatic cancer and withered away to a slender man. He was a big man before. I hate that some people have to suffer. I wish we all had peaceful ends to our lives.

[Jeanne]

For much of our early marriage life, my husband and I laid on the couch and in the early 80's it was the "cancer of the week" movie. I am sure you all remember those.  Often we would look at eachother and say "If I ever get that way..please let me go".  Years later I watched him die.  For him it was just 3 months, but a lot of crying in the doctor's offices telling me that he didn't want to do this anymore!  His courage and his desire to have our last Christmas together gave him the strength to go past the "if I ever get this way" heartache.  He requested every emergency trip during Thanksgiving and Christmas..please do no resusitate(sp). I wouldn't have wanted him to go on..as much as I loved him, dignity should always be an option. 

[pogi]

As a hospice nurse I can say that most severe pain can be well managed with morphine.  Neuropathic pain can be a little more tricky but I have yet to see a case where pain has not been managed at a tolerable level for the patient.  Quality of life on the other hand is a different story.  I have many patients who want to die not from the pain but from the loneliness, depression, fear that they are a burden on their family, etc.  That is the hardest symptom to comfort in my experience.  

[Buzzard]

I have commented multiple times over on this subject on the other thread. If you want the input of someone with an incurable illness, go read it on that one. My opinion hasn't changed.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I'm afraid of suffering and the pain of organs shutting down and the uncomfortableness of not being able to breathe well. I'm worried about the physical pain more than loneliness.

[Calm]

How many years have you to go before likely have problems? 40? Medical advances will come strong in ageing because that is where the money will be given the large older population, IMO. keep yourself fit now, use brain, body and spirit to the best that you can given your physical and emotional limitations you've talked about, and you will probably have an easy time of it by your old age.

40 years ago they didn't even recognize my genetic disorder though a doctor discovered it over 500 years before. They made my gp's life pure hell because they gave him drugs that made it much worse. Ten years later there was a slight chance he might have had an understanding doc, now every doc I've gone to knows of it, treatment still needs to be done by specialists but they listen to you when you say I need different drugs ( unless you have very evil insurance that makes you jump through hoops). I anticipate my life will stay pretty steady treatment getting slowly better as I get worse, but my kids won't be saddled with it forever.

[pogi]

No rep point from me for self-murder. 

 

 

Hi 3DOP!

 

Would you consider the refusal of treatment suicide or "self-murder"? For example the removal of a  feeding tube, oxygen, or refusing dialysis, etc.

 

Part of the financial mess our health care system is in is due to our relentless quest for life.  We can successfully prolong life, but at what cost?  There can be a significant financial/emotional burden on the patient, caregiver, and system as a whole which can significantly impede well-being and quality of life, and even the meaning of life and death.  Simply because we can extend life, does that mean we should?  If we think it not a sin to interfere with the natural order of life by unnaturally extending it through modern medicine, why should we have any problem unnaturally shortening it through the same means in an effort to preserve the dignity of life/death and well being. What is death but more life anyway? 

 

The Lord said "Thou shall not kill", yet we justify killing in war to preserve our own way of life, well-being, and freedoms.  What if disease and suffering has stripped an individual of their way of life, well being and freedoms?  Why can we not justify killing in that instance to free them from their bonds when no hope to reclaim them remains?  We kill to free prisoners of war, so why cannot we kill to free prisoners of disease and suffering?  I don't believe that the scriptures preclude us from this merciful option.  

Edited October 17, 2014 by pogi

[LOSTONE]

I am sad to say that this issue has hit home today with a close friend of mine from church. His daughter has stage 4 cancer and it has spread out her body. There is no course of treatment that will save her life. She is terminal. It's heart breaking and her dad has to watch his daughter suffer and die before him. I did not bring up the issue of right to die to him. That would of been wrong and hurtful as I am sure he knows of the matter. I don't know what to say, but my heart is broken and I can't imagine his pain. What does one do in a case like this?

[Tacenda]

Definitely get her on the "Make a Wish" program and hope for belief in God on their end.

I've never had to go through a family member having terminal cancer, so painfully sad at every age but with a child it's almost beyond comprehension.