Blog Post: "angry Ex-Mormon-Anti-Mormons"

[Scott Lloyd]

Dan Peterson on his blog linked to this blog post by Chet Cannon.

 

It's hilarious enough on its own.

 

But the real howler is that a number of enraged persons immediately jump in to rail against it in their online comments, thereby exemplifying through personal behavior the very thing that Cannon has just finished lampooning!

Edited October 6, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[Buckeye]

Um, I think your link connects back to your own post, not to the Chet Cannon post.  You've created an infinite loop!  Save me!

[Scott Lloyd]

Um, I think your link connects back to your own post, not to the Chet Cannon post.  You've created an infinite loop!  Save me!

Ahhhh, you're right! It's a Scott-Lloyd-generated Twilight Zone.

 

I've now fixed the link. Thanks for the heads-up.

 

Edited to add:

 

Reminds me of an old joke from my junior high school days:

 

You write on one side of a page "How to keep an idiot occupied. (Over)"

 

On the other side, you write "How to keep an idiot occupied. (Over)"

Edited October 6, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[EllenMaksoud]

Dan Peterson on his blog linked to this blog post by Chet Cannon.

 

It's hilarious enough on its own.

 

But the real howler is that a number of enraged persons immediately jump in to rail against it in their online comments, thereby exemplifying through personal behavior the very thing that Cannon has just finished lampooning!

Um, what did you do to me? The internet police will not allow me to look at his blog. Are the police constables going to be beating my door down?

[Calm]

You must have a setting on your computer that is doing this. It works for me.

Perhaps check your security settings?

[Tarski]

Dan Peterson on his blog linked to this blog post by Chet Cannon.

 

It's hilarious enough on its own.

 

But the real howler is that a number of enraged persons immediately jump in to rail against it in their online comments, thereby exemplifying through personal behavior the very thing that Cannon has just finished lampooning!

Enraged? Wow!

I think the level of frustration exmormons often feel and the reason they don't always just disappear quietly is fairly well explained by many of the comments.

It takes an extremely closed and unsympathetic mind to not get it. But you don't get it and neither does Chet Cannon. Chet Cannon looks foolish to me. That you think it is a howler is similarly embarrassing.

 

Think about it this way, I have heard more than one leader, even Gordon B. Hinckley

  for instance, say something to the effect that either the church is true or it is one of the greatest frauds in history. (

sauce: http://www.pbs.org/mormons/interviews/hinckley.html

More colorful language has been used by leaders making a similar point to the effect that either it is of God or of the devil. Well, are people not supposed to consider seriously which it is and act accordingly??

Well I guess many exmormons agree with the former church leader. So if they come to the considered and reasonable informed conclusion that it is indeed false then it is not an innocent thing to be ignored but rather  like all great frauds it is worth exposing.  It is arguably immoral to not give people a heads up.

If it is a fraud, then it has cost people plenty for reasons that are only hard to imagine for someone still convinced that the LDS church is God's own  mighty church. (JW's think a similar thing of course).

That is only the tip of the iceberg of what could be said along these lines. Of course, one need not show the church is a fraud to detail the way the culture and the doctrine have done harm but this is not the message board for that I am guessing.

Mormonism is not unique in this way. I just read the heartbreaking story of someone who came to realize that the Jehova's Witness religion was a fraud and tried to be honest and clear about it in their actions and words.

I heard many familiar themes. They even use similar language such as "anti-Witness literature" and so on. My own approach is to talk about Mormonism occasionally on a message board in a frank manner and take no other actions to fight the church. I don't go around trying to save people from Mormonism. Too much trouble. Maybe I am just selfishly happy to be out.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Tarski

[sethpayne]

Enraged? Wow!

I think the level of frustration exmormons often feel and the reason they don't always just disappear quietly is fairly well explained by many of the comments.

It takes an extremely closed and unsympathetic mind to not get it. But you don't get it and neither does Chet Cannon. Chet Cannon looks foolish to me. That you think it is a howler is similarly embarrassing.

 

Think about it this way, I have heard more than one leader, even Gordon B. Hinckley

  for instance, say something to the effect that either the church is true or it is one of the greatest frauds in history. (

sauce: http://www.pbs.org/mormons/interviews/hinckley.html

More colorful language has been used by leaders making a similar point to the effect that either it is of God or of the devil. Well, are people not supposed to consider seriously which it is and act accordingly??

Well I guess many exmormons agree with the former church leader. So if they come to the considered and reasonable informed conclusion that it is indeed false then it is not an innocent thing to be ignored but rather  like all great frauds it is worth exposing.  It is arguably immoral to not give people a heads up.

If it is a fraud, then it has cost people plenty for reason that are only hard to imagine for someone still convinced that the LDS church is God's own  mighty church. (JW's think a similar thing of course).

That is only the tip of the iceberg of what could be said along these lines. Of course, one need not show the church is a fraud to detail the way the culture and the doctrine have done harm but this is not the message board for that I am guessing.

Mormonism is not unique in this way. I just read the heartbreaking story of someone who came to realize that the Jehova's Witness religion was a fraud and tried to be honest and clear about it in their actions and words.

I heard many familiar themes. They even use similar language such as "anti-Witness literature" and so on. My own approach is to talk about Mormonism occasionally on a message board in a frank manner and take no other actions to fight the church. I don't go around trying to save people from Mormonism. Too much trouble. Maybe I am just selfishly happy to be out.

 

Under what philosophical and reasonable moral mandate are we under which compels us to interpret religious belief from the perspective of those who espouse it?  

[Tarski]

??

Was I advocating evaluating mormonism from the perspective of those who espouse it?

Was I even advocating doing the opposite?

I guess I don't get your point. I can't even tell if you are agreeing with me. Please clarify.

[sdc999]

Dan Peterson on his blog linked to this blog post by Chet Cannon.

 

It's hilarious enough on its own.

 

But the real howler is that a number of enraged persons immediately jump in to rail against it in their online comments, thereby exemplifying through personal behavior the very thing that Cannon has just finished lampooning!

We were one of those families who left the club.  We weren't looking to leave our friendships.  We weren't looking to leave our family.  But that is what we got in return.  The kids our kids grew up with and had sleep overs with were no longer allowed to come around.  Explain that to your 12 and 10 year old.  Your Mother-in-law calls you and basically says she has disowned you and doesn't speak to you for 7 months (okay, that may seem like a good thing to many).  The 'wonderful' relief society women who were all so loving and caring and 'bff's' with my wife all disappeared. 

I can tell you that it really stung us more for our kids' treatment than our own.  Now, I still maintained one of my good friends through all of this and through talks, he was appalled and even embarrassed at most of the people's Christ-less like behavior.  

Do I stay informed of what's happening in the church?  Sure.  I have many family members still there.  Was I very angry for a time at what I perceived the church culture  had perpetrated?  Indeed.  But, it is what it is.  People, not just Mormons, have no idea how to react when someone leaves and disavows the former belief.  They tend to circle the wagons as if the departing entities have a disease that could drag them away as well.

So, to wrap up--  Crazy ex/anti mormons - you bet.    Crazy TBMs - you bet.   If you don't think so then you have never played Fast and Testimony Bingo.  So, you think it's a 'howler' how these people jump right in.  Take a look around you, there are some real nut cases on the inside as well. 

[VideoGameJunkie]

A lot of exmormons feel shunned after they leave the church and lash out their frustration.

[teddyaware]

We were one of those families who left the club.  We weren't looking to leave our friendships.  We weren't looking to leave our family.  But that is what we got in return.  The kids our kids grew up with and had sleep overs with were no longer allowed to come around.  Explain that to your 12 and 10 year old.  Your Mother-in-law calls you and basically says she has disowned you and doesn't speak to you for 7 months (okay, that may seem like a good thing to many).  The 'wonderful' relief society women who were all so loving and caring and 'bff's' with my wife all disappeared. 

I can tell you that it really stung us more for our kids' treatment than our own.  Now, I still maintained one of my good friends through all of this and through talks, he was appalled and even embarrassed at most of the people's Christ-less like behavior.  

Do I stay informed of what's happening in the church?  Sure.  I have many family members still there.  Was I very angry for a time at what I perceived the church culture  had perpetrated?  Indeed.  But, it is what it is.  People, not just Mormons, have no idea how to react when someone leaves and disavows the former belief.  They tend to circle the wagons as if the departing entities have a disease that could drag them away as well.

So, to wrap up--  Crazy ex/anti mormons - you bet.    Crazy TBMs - you bet.   If you don't think so then you have never played Fast and Testimony Bingo.  So, you think it's a 'howler' how these people jump right in.  Take a look around you, there are some real nut cases on the inside as well.

I sympathize with you. Even so, agree with Him or not, Christ did teach His Gospel would bring strife and conflict into the world.

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. (Matthew 10)

It would be interesting and instructive to hear your story from the perspective who those LDS Church members who offended and abandoned you and your family. Perhaps these folks "jumped the gun," as it were, incorrectly presuming you would immediately join the ranks of the many bitter ex-Mormon-anti-Mormons who preceded you? Could it be some members of the LDS Church are becoming 'gun shy' in the wake of the actions of those angry former members who leave the Church but can't leave it alone? Wouldn't you agree it's possible the ex-member well of goodwill has been poisoned by former members who've filled the blogosphere with never-ending screeds of venomous invective and bitter sarcasm? It's possible you and yours got unfairly lumped in with these other Ex-Mormons before you were given a chance to demonstrate you wouldn't follow in their foul footsteps. Alas! What happened wasn't right, but it was an all-too-human thing to do.

Even though you feel slighted, I trust you and your family are not counted among the ranks of those who consistently poison cyberspace with bitter attacks against the Mormons...

Edited October 8, 2014 by teddyaware

[Darren10]

Chet's main point, at least one of them, is how certain ex-Mormons / anti-Mormons rant and rave on how Mormonism is irrelevant and never shut up about ranting and raving about how irrelevant it is. That's funny to read about in part because it is true. Chet did not address Mormons who left and went on their merry. He even praised the, for finding what makes the, happy. Nor do I think Chet was addressing Mormons who left and had to deal with the bitter and unjust reactions of family and friends. Chet specified who his target was: ex and anti Mormons who rant and rave on and on and on about how irrelevant Mormonism is?

Yes, that is a howler.

[sdc999]

I sympathize with you. Even so, agree with Him or not, Christ did teach His Gospel would bring strife and conflict into the world.

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. (Matthew 10)

It would be interesting and instructive to hear your story from the perspective who those LDS Church members who offended and abandoned you and your family. Perhaps these folks "jumped the gun," as it were, incorrectly presuming you would immediately join the ranks of the many bitter ex-Mormon-anti-Mormons who preceded you? Could it be some members of the LDS Church are becoming 'gun shy' in the wake of the actions of those angry former members who leave the Church but can't leave it alone? Wouldn't you agree it's possible the ex-member well of goodwill has been poisoned by former members who've filled the blogosphere with never-ending screeds of venomous invective and bitter sarcasm? It's possible you and yours got unfairly lumped in with these other Ex-Mormons before you were given a chance to demonstrate you wouldn't follow in their foul footsteps. Alas! What happened wasn't right, but it was an all-too-human thing to do.

Even though you feel slighted, I trust you and your family are not counted among the ranks those who consistently poison cyberspace with bitter attacks against the Mormons...

You're right.  I think that would make a very interesting study case.  Ex-members are always too willing to tell why they left and why this is wrong or that is wrong.  I was never one to poison cyberspace.  Now, to be forthcoming,  when confronted,(look at the consequences for your children or your family)  as I was several times, I was one who would confront you right back -  I didn't sheepishly back down.  But I also had the integrity to do it right back , face to face.  And man, do people really not like it when you have an answer. 

After time though, you would think some would come around to find out that you  (we) are the same person,  we still believe in Christ, we still attend church together as a family.  We've raised our kids so they have developed their own relationship with Christ.  One has gone to college and gets up, on her own, to attend church on Sundays and attends several bible study groups.  

So, who has come back around from the church.  From my wife's 'bffs', we are still around the zero to one mark.  (7years now) And we're in a relatively small town and area.  I still see my good friend, as regularly as we can since he now has several kids of his own and life/job keeps him busy.    My Mother-in-law eased into speaking to me 7 months after the fact.  One day she confessed to my wife that she new we were indeed good people and very Christlike.  Most - definitely not all, still come to my place of business for products they need.  

We are all really in violent agreement:    I believe in Christ as you do.  I believe Christ died for me as you do.  I believe in the Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost as you do.  We both believe in returning to our Father in Heaven.  

As for my children, they are good as well.  The friends they had to grow up apart from - well, they are now friends on facebook,twitter, snapchat. there may be even others that my limited technology may not afford me to know about.  They have even slipped out to see each other or come over to our house, 'please don't say anything so our parents don't find out', to visit and catch up.   

[HappyJackWagon]

I am continually saddened when I see, hear, read expressions from "faithful" LDS which lack any semblance of compassion. For those parents who disown their gay children or prohibit their children from playing with the unworthy non-LDS or ex-LDS children (even referenced in last conference). My wife asked if I think that really happens because she couldn't fathom it. Sadly, it happens often. Why? Because people are either afraid their family's faith is so fragile it will be disrupted by a non-believer or because people feel righteous by not condoning the sins of others and they mistakenly feel that being kind, charitable, christlike, compassionate give aid and comfort to the sinner. Sad. Sad. Sad.

[sethpayne]

??

Was I advocating evaluating mormonism from the perspective of those who espouse it?

Was I even advocating doing the opposite?

I guess I don't get your point. I can't even tell if you are agreeing with me. Please clarify.

 

You claimed that since President Hinckley said that this Church is either true or a fraud that you must treat it as such.  My question is is why?  Why must you view it from that perspective?  Seems just as easy to say "Hmm... well, I don't believe the world works that way anymore."  Fraud, deception, whatever, never enter into the picture.

 

A non-believer saying that the Church must be true or a fraud based on the comments of past leaders demonstrates that the non-believer feels that these leaders have some objective, ultimate, authority in defining how specific religious views should be framed.  Seems odd to me.

[sethpayne]

I am continually saddened when I see, hear, read expressions from "faithful" LDS which lack any semblance of compassion. For those parents who disown their gay children or prohibit their children from playing with the unworthy non-LDS or ex-LDS children (even referenced in last conference). My wife asked if I think that really happens because she couldn't fathom it. Sadly, it happens often. Why? Because people are either afraid their family's faith is so fragile it will be disrupted by a non-believer or because people feel righteous by not condoning the sins of others and they mistakenly feel that being kind, charitable, christlike, compassionate give aid and comfort to the sinner. Sad. Sad. Sad.

 

I agree that it happens.  I had a friend attempt suicide -- twice -- because his LDS family disowned him for being gay.  Given the nastiness of such an action I'm glad that, in my experience at least, this tends to be the exception and most LDS families, while certainly dismayed at first with a gay son or daughter, don't get to the point where they stop loving their child.

 

Why do you say it happens often?  In all my years in Mormondom I've seen it 3 times.  All terrible, of course.  But I wouldn't say this has been "often."

[HappyJackWagon]

I agree that it happens.  I had a friend attempt suicide -- twice -- because his LDS family disowned him for being gay.  Given the nastiness of such an action I'm glad that, in my experience at least, this tends to be the exception and most LDS families, while certainly dismayed at first with a gay son or daughter, don't get to the point where they stop loving their child.

 

Why do you say it happens often?  In all my years in Mormondom I've seen it 3 times.  All terrible, of course.  But I wouldn't say this has been "often."

Here's a link to a story from last year stating that 40% of homeless teens in Utah identify as LGBT http://www.standard.net/stories/2013/10/29/40-percent-homeless-utah-children-identified-lgbt

 

I think we could find many additional stories that would support my claim that it happens frequently. Even the fact that you've personally known 3 is a fairly high number IMO. Just this past weekend I heard someone bragging about taking a hard line against a gay son. "I can't condone his behavior therefore he's not allowed in my home." Wow. Not a very loving parent or Christian.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

A lot of exmormons feel shunned after they leave the church and lash out their frustration.

Maybe because the ex-mos I have personally know that have left were bitter and always negative, and we tried to have respectful dialogue but that ship sailed early. Later, I would not even bring church things up. Any opportunity to mock, they took it. So yeah, some members might act badly but so do some of the ex mos.  I think some ex mos do the shunning all on their own. There is always a 2 way road here.

 

And there is another very real aspect to the shunning. I probably would not want my kids hanging around with the kids of parents that have left solely with the negativity I have experienced in the past and the shear onslaught at my beliefs.   I don't want my kids to have to deal with that while they are still kids. And I think that is a very legitimate reason. You cannot leave the church and expect things to be rosy all the time. I mean I dunno what some of you want us to do? Have you over for pot luck so you can rip my beliefs? So we could talk about the BoA?

[sethpayne]

Here's a link to a story from last year stating that 40% of homeless teens in Utah identify as LGBT http://www.standard.net/stories/2013/10/29/40-percent-homeless-utah-children-identified-lgbt

 

I think we could find many additional stories that would support my claim that it happens frequently. Even the fact that you've personally known 3 is a fairly high number IMO. Just this past weekend I heard someone bragging about taking a hard line against a gay son. "I can't condone his behavior therefore he's not allowed in my home." Wow. Not a very loving parent or Christian.

 

Well, I suppose it is quite likely that my personal experience doesn't match the broad experience of others and that 40% homeless number is pretty shocking.  I'm sure we could chalk some of that up to other issues but man.  Any parent who disowns their child or withholds support *simply* because they are gay, is unworthy of the name "Mormon", IMO.

[sdc999]

.

 

And there is another very real aspect to the shunning. I probably would not want my kids hanging around with the kids of parents that have left solely with the negativity I have experienced in the past and the shear onslaught at my beliefs.   I don't want my kids to have to deal with that while they are still kids. And I think that is a very legitimate reason. You cannot leave the church and expect things to be rosy all the time. I mean I dunno what some of you want us to do? Have you over for pot luck so you can rip my beliefs? So we could talk about the BoA?

That is a really interesting perspective.  This is just a 'what if' scenario that, unfortunately plays out in real life too much.  But what about family?  Usually, members are related to other members.   So then what?    Do you tell your kids, 'no, you cannot go to Uncle Matt's house and spend time with your cousins anymore, they have left the church.'   Or, No more going to grandma's and grandpa's house.  Yes, there are parents that leave the church as well while the kids remain.  There's also the flip side of that coin.  Did I want my children to go visit their grandparents, the mother-in-law who shunned me?  You bet I did.  That is their grandmother and we wanted to establish that we were family.   If I thought they were being disrespectful, which they never were to the children, we would address it.   If it were a problem, then I would have to make that decision.  I surely wouldn't go into it anticipating a problem. 

[Mystery Meat]

Enraged? Wow!

I think the level of frustration exmormons often feel and the reason they don't always just disappear quietly is fairly well explained by many of the comments.

It takes an extremely closed and unsympathetic mind to not get it. But you don't get it and neither does Chet Cannon. Chet Cannon looks foolish to me. That you think it is a howler is similarly embarrassing.

 

Think about it this way, I have heard more than one leader, even Gordon B. Hinckley

  for instance, say something to the effect that either the church is true or it is one of the greatest frauds in history. (

sauce: http://www.pbs.org/mormons/interviews/hinckley.html

More colorful language has been used by leaders making a similar point to the effect that either it is of God or of the devil. Well, are people not supposed to consider seriously which it is and act accordingly??

Well I guess many exmormons agree with the former church leader. So if they come to the considered and reasonable informed conclusion that it is indeed false then it is not an innocent thing to be ignored but rather  like all great frauds it is worth exposing.  It is arguably immoral to not give people a heads up.

If it is a fraud, then it has cost people plenty for reasons that are only hard to imagine for someone still convinced that the LDS church is God's own  mighty church. (JW's think a similar thing of course).

That is only the tip of the iceberg of what could be said along these lines. Of course, one need not show the church is a fraud to detail the way the culture and the doctrine have done harm but this is not the message board for that I am guessing.

Mormonism is not unique in this way. I just read the heartbreaking story of someone who came to realize that the Jehova's Witness religion was a fraud and tried to be honest and clear about it in their actions and words.

I heard many familiar themes. They even use similar language such as "anti-Witness literature" and so on. My own approach is to talk about Mormonism occasionally on a message board in a frank manner and take no other actions to fight the church. I don't go around trying to save people from Mormonism. Too much trouble. Maybe I am just selfishly happy to be out.

 

I gave you a rep point even if I don't agree with your basic premise. I think we as members of the Church can do better at showing compassion and trying (we will never fully understand) to sympathize with what some of these folks go through.

 

Here is where I take issue with what you said:

 

First, in my experience those who leave the Church over tough history or other issues, do not make reasonable or informed decisions. That sounds harsh. I understand that. Let me clarify. My experience has to do with family and friends. I don't think they left the church because they want to sin, I just don't think they were being reasonable either. Without exception, of the people I know made hot headed and emotional decisions. They still proscribe to a type of group think that I believe manipulates the way they think. Some of them still cling to difficult issues or history that has long since been refuted (even by critics). I am sure not everyone falls into this category, but EVERY person I know does, so what other conclusion am I left to draw? (For the record I think there are a fair amount of TBMs that are not reasonable either).

 

Second, my sister (who left the Church) told another member of my family how she hates the Church now because when she left it hurt her relationships with her family. None of us for the life of us have any idea what she is talking about. Each of us goes out of our way to make sure she is included in every single family gathering. More often than not she comes up with a reason not to attend. Yes, we talk about the Church when we are together. Are we not supposed to just because she is no longer active? I think what is going on is she really wants to be a victim, and while I have seen members treat those who leave badly before, I have a hard believing half of what is reported as true. My sister has put herself in her own box. I love her just as much now as I ever did, but SHE decided to pull away from us when she left the Church, not the other way around (even though she still blames us).

[Tacenda]

I think it's cult like behaviour, but don't think TBM's specifically try to shun, it happens naturally. They are into their religion and it's their life...and when they don't have it in common with ex-LDS or they're on a different playing field, it creates the feeling that they are shunning.

[sethpayne]

I think it's cult like behaviour, but don't think TBM's specifically try to shun, it happens naturally. They are into their religion and it's their life...and when they don't have it in common with ex-LDS or they're on a different playing field, it creates the feeling that they are shunning.

 

I agree.  The problem is cultural.  Not necessarily institutional.

[Tarski]

You claimed that since President Hinckley said that this Church is either true or a fraud that you must treat it as such. 

No I think you missed my angle. I was pointing out an irony for rhetorical effect. The idea was simply that many exmormons effectively agree with GB Hinckley in that they feel that if the church isn't true then it must be effectively an evil fraud.  No principle of reason forces them to agree with him but based on their own considerations and own reasoning, they ironically do agree on at least that dichotomy. 

 

On the other hand, while in general the opposition between simply true and outright fraud is a false dilemma, my own opinion given the details of the particular case of historical Mormonism is that it does boil down to that dichotomy with very little remainder. So ironically, I agree with President Hinckley. 

 

Does that mean I think there is nothing good in Mormonism? No because even with a system that began in fraud or fantasy and even if some of that continues, it may well be that as long as there are enough members that are basically good people and bring that to bear in the way they interpret the religion, then there can be many reliable positives in being a member. But, even if there we no obvious negatives at all, many of us would still not prefer to remain if  it is not true in every relevant way. That is it matters whether there really were Nephites and whether Joseph Smith really had a unique authority from a living God. Maybe the love of factual truth is a character flaw but what can one do?

Edited October 8, 2014 by Tarski

[Tacenda]

I gave you a rep point even if I don't agree with your basic premise. I think we as members of the Church can do better at showing compassion and trying (we will never fully understand) to sympathize with what some of these folks go through.

Here is where I take issue with what you said:

First, in my experience those who leave the Church over tough history or other issues, do not make reasonable or informed decisions. That sounds harsh. I understand that. Let me clarify. My experience has to do with family and friends. I don't think they left the church because they want to sin, I just don't think they were being reasonable either. Without exception, of the people I know made hot headed and emotional decisions. They still proscribe to a type of group think that I believe manipulates the way they think. Some of them still cling to difficult issues or history that has long since been refuted (even by critics). I am sure not everyone falls into this category, but EVERY person I know does, so what other conclusion am I left to draw? (For the record I think there are a fair amount of TBMs that are not reasonable either).

Second, my sister (who left the Church) told another member of my family how she hates the Church now because when she left it hurt her relationships with her family. None of us for the life of us have any idea what she is talking about. Each of us goes out of our way to make sure she is included in every single family gathering. More often than not she comes up with a reason not to attend. Yes, we talk about the Church when we are together. Are we not supposed to just because she is no longer active? I think what is going on is she really wants to be a victim, and while I have seen members treat those who leave badly before, I have a hard believing half of what is reported as true. My sister has put herself in her own box. I love her just as much now as I ever did, but SHE decided to pull away from us when she left the Church, not the other way around (even though she still blames us).

Try coming out of your box also. Be open about your situation, joke and kid to break the ice about your differences now. It's crucial that you're all open, don't let it be an elephant in the room.