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Julie Rowe


maudieb

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hello, i am trying to decide if sister rowe had a real vision and if so it is quite remarkable . my 7 children are divided on the subject and i am not yet committed either way. i have tried e mailing to her but no reply but i am sure she is busy. nothing online that i see offers anything against her or i would say an opposing view on the matter. i do question her saying the church is purchasing tents for the coming gathering and preparing places of refuge.i went to the church website and thru feedback asked if tents were being prepared as she stated, also i looked around the website. i found the church does obtain tents but for the disasters as needed not for the gathering as she says, so far. the church rep for the church response team said he does not know of any such preparation of tents as sister rowe claims and also said she has no right to say such things which is the leaders job. now this may be as far as the rep knows and what he says may be opinion. so what do you think?  also i wonder what her bishops take is on all this as i think that could speak volumes. has anyone heard on this matter of the bishop or the church for that matter? i will talk to my bishop on this and i will soon come to the answer. yes i have prayed and so far this is the path i seem to be on now. my family is affected by this and so i will find what is the truth. for the most part all our lives are proceeding as usual none of my children are doing anything extreme but are more focused on prepping, i myself will do what i can but my resources are very limited so i just do what i can do. i really dont worry about myself i will just follow the prophet and the spirit. would like some opposing views on her to help weigh this matter. ive always liked movies on  end of the world stuff, you know road warrior, deep impact etc. trouble is im a little lame due to motorcycle accidents and bouncing off cars. bummer. as a side note all our blessing seem to address end of the world matters so that makes this all the more involving in a way. all my kids are promised safety when the destructions come and know this. thanks for any help and email me if you can, i hope i dont make trouble and if so i apologize.

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Maudie - would you mind giving a link? I have no idea what you are talking about.

Methinks based on other internet comments that its an account of her NDE.  I have not read hers, but in reading some others, parts inspire head nodding, parts cause head scratching, and parts induce eye rolling. 

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hello, i am trying to decide if sister rowe had a real vision and if so it is quite remarkable . my 7 children are divided on the subject and i am not yet committed either way. i have tried e mailing to her but no reply but i am sure she is busy. nothing online that i see offers anything against her or i would say an opposing view on the matter. i do question her saying the church is purchasing tents for the coming gathering and preparing places of refuge.i went to the church website and thru feedback asked if tents were being prepared as she stated, also i looked around the website. i found the church does obtain tents but for the disasters as needed not for the gathering as she says, so far. the church rep for the church response team said he does not know of any such preparation of tents as sister rowe claims and also said she has no right to say such things which is the leaders job. now this may be as far as the rep knows and what he says may be opinion. so what do you think?  also i wonder what her bishops take is on all this as i think that could speak volumes. has anyone heard on this matter of the bishop or the church for that matter? i will talk to my bishop on this and i will soon come to the answer. yes i have prayed and so far this is the path i seem to be on now. my family is affected by this and so i will find what is the truth. for the most part all our lives are proceeding as usual none of my children are doing anything extreme but are more focused on prepping, i myself will do what i can but my resources are very limited so i just do what i can do. i really dont worry about myself i will just follow the prophet and the spirit. would like some opposing views on her to help weigh this matter. ive always liked movies on  end of the world stuff, you know road warrior, deep impact etc. trouble is im a little lame due to motorcycle accidents and bouncing off cars. bummer. as a side note all our blessing seem to address end of the world matters so that makes this all the more involving in a way. all my kids are promised safety when the destructions come and know this. thanks for any help and email me if you can, i hope i dont make trouble and if so i apologize.

If she had a real vision it is,private and she should keep it her's and her's alone.
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If she had a real vision it is,private and she should keep it her's and her's alone.

Not necessarily. There may be value in sharing it, for others who might benefit (assuming it's true), or for her to even appreciate it better by talking about it. If people never shared their visions, the scriptures would have a lot of missing sections. :)

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  • 1 month later...

Hello, anybody out there? ( sounds of crickets chirping ) but seriously folks.... Well I thought since my topic is so hot and not to well attended I would supply a update on my search. I've found some strange things on the internet and maybe because I don't really engage in blogs or the such ever. I guess there have been similar nde experiences by mormons and some resulting in excommunication. It seems they start out all hunky dory then slowly sink into weird ideas and even fighting the church. First I want to address a few things about Julie that are to me red flags and to be fair are in and of themselves are not absolute evil but to me set a precedent. Now julie if I got this straight was inactive when receiving her nde and commission to preach or whatever you may want to call it. She is a emotion code practitioner and in my book has good and bad to it but the bad in my call cancels the good. If I may direct your attention to the center ring, now presenting... Nothing, please excuse my feeble attempt at humor, anyway my biggest concern is this. As far as I know there has been no official sanction of her preaching. Now be it far from me to assume any claim to all knowledge or perfection, I am just a weary beat up traveler on the road of life like most of us but I hope I have enough what ever it takes to be approved of God enough to still be human. Now if I had a dream and was told in that dream what julie was told the very first thing I would do is talk to my Bishop who is my father as far as the way the Savior in his wisdom set the church up. I would not presume in the least that I am one worthy to preach such great things like julie is imparting. That's what is bothering me the most and if you look some people have posted what the prophets have said on matters like this , which is basically if you feel you need to preach your vision talk with the leaders first . Not to control but to in a spirit of love to help you. julies story seems to do no harm and she seems to support the church which is Christ's church and this being His church there are strict ways to do things. Strict in a way that is to benefit you, and to some things there are exceptions and to some there are not. To know when exception is I would think to talk with leaders ordained and called of God personally is mandatory in order to be safe. If julie is approved officially called to preach for that is what she is doing then I support her. And to tell you I am not a yes man .

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I don't know much of anything about Julie Rowe other then what you have said and a quick 3 minute google search I just did- and I knew nothing 3 minutes ago.

That being said I would like to ask a couple questions in response to something you said about talking to your leaders first before sharing a vision/dream/visitation etc...

Did Lehi ask permission before preaching? Abinadi? Alma? John the Baptist?

If they had what do you believe the counsel would've been?


** Again, I am not saying Sis. Rowe has been called to do anything. **

 

Edited by BookofMormonLuvr
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I do not know much about Sister Rowe.   What I do know is that the official church position on gathering has been for many years to gather in local stakes.    Not buying a lot of tents for some trek somewhere.  (Not that church unites don't have tents for camps and for disaster preparedness.

 

And the Lord reveals information to us through prophets, not through individuals who have no stewardship over anyone but their own families.     No way Sister Rowe's visions of any kind can be seen as something the rest of us should act on.

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Luvr, if your asking if julie rowe needs to ask permission then the answer is yes. Why because the call to do Gods work comes from God and one is set apart by him. In the days past even if there was doubtful church organization do you think The Lord operated any different than He has always. Your question has nothing to do with anything in my assement and I'm thinking you know that. But I could be wrong but I'm doubting it. We do now have the church and the authority to do Gods work. If Julie was called of God then she would be called by her leaders not some entity called john. If she was sharing a vision then I see nothing wrong in that but from what I see and hear from her I quite sure this is not the case at all. But I'm still searching and open to ideas although it may not appear so. I hate doing scripture quotes to assist in a point but this time I will: and no man taketh this this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God as was Aaron. If you had her experience do you mean to say you would not talk with your Bishop about what you saw and what you were planning. If this vision is from satan pretty clever to have her keep fairly quite about it and inflict on her this waiting period.

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Luvr, if your asking if julie rowe needs to ask permission then the answer is yes. Why because the call to do Gods work comes from God and one is set apart by him. In the days past even if there was doubtful church organization do you think The Lord operated any different than He has always. Your question has nothing to do with anything in my assement and I'm thinking you know that. But I could be wrong but I'm doubting it. We do now have the church and the authority to do Gods work. If Julie was called of God then she would be called by her leaders not some entity called john. If she was sharing a vision then I see nothing wrong in that but from what I see and hear from her I quite sure this is not the case at all. But I'm still searching and open to ideas although it may not appear so. I hate doing scripture quotes to assist in a point but this time I will: and no man taketh this this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God as was Aaron. If you had her experience do you mean to say you would not talk with your Bishop about what you saw and what you were planning. If this vision is from satan pretty clever to have her keep fairly quite about it and inflict on her this waiting period.

 

Like I said I know nothing almost nothing about Julie Rowe and even less about whatever experience she claims to have had.

Nephi speaks of the "Elders of the church" of which his father was not one of their number.

Alma's church leader was King Noah

Abinadi came from ouside of church leadership

John the Baptist was outside of Jewish religious authority

There was a regularly organized church in every one of these instances. Now it may be that your leaders are more righteous the the leaders of the church I cite, but that doesn't take away from the fact that those righteous men operated independent of their "leaders".

But, whatever, I have no skin in the game. I don't feel inclined to look to much into Rowe's claim. Just trying to give you something to think about.

God bless in your studying and searching.

Edited by BookofMormonLuvr
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Where do you think these men received their callings and priesthood! The same place you or any elder did, from someone else. Just because everything isn't laid out doesn't mean The Lord is doing anything different. The scriptures don't tell us they were married yet you can see they were from the children of the ones we know of. Who baptized Adam, who baptized you, who Baptized the prophet, authorized disciples of Christ. There are churches all over this planet or wards and they are all His. The Lord does not operate on darkness and confusion, what makes Him so great are His ways are so simple and easy to understand for his sheep. There is no mystery here only light. Adam was baptized by the spirit who operates under the direction of God. Sorry I am so quick to confront it is my way and I do need to be more patient sometimes. You know treat others as I would be treated or how Christ treats according to his perfect wisdom.

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Where do you think these men received their callings and priesthood! The same place you or any elder did, from someone else. Just because everything isn't laid out doesn't mean The Lord is doing anything different. The scriptures don't tell us they were married yet you can see they were from the children of the ones we know of. Who baptized Adam, who baptized you, who Baptized the prophet, authorized disciples of Christ. There are churches all over this planet or wards and they are all His. The Lord does not operate on darkness and confusion, what makes Him so great are His ways are so simple and easy to understand for his sheep. There is no mystery here only light. Adam was baptized by the spirit who operates under the direction of God. Sorry I am so quick to confront it is my way and I do need to be more patient sometimes. You know treat others as I would be treated or how Christ treats according to his perfect wisdom.

The question of who baptized who and how they received that authority is a very interesting topic (especially in the case of Alma) but probably not best for the Social section of the board.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm sorry this message is coming a little late, but...

Sister Rowe may or may not be a Prophet. Regardless, she is not THE Prophet given the keys of the priesthood to govern God's church. Lehi recieved the call to preach the word and call others to repentance lest the scriptures be fulfilled according to Isaiah and the Holy City razed. When the call came to flee by vision, he took HIS family and fleed into the night. He only asked Ishmael and his family to come after the Lord tested his obedience and that of his family. He has a pattern, as He is the same yesterday, today and forever.

I think the GA's at Conference said it well when they said to listen to the prophet.

My Grandmother has spent her life savings and mortgaged her house to purchase trailers for herself and my mom based on that book because she know shes too old to sleep in a tent. It's on her for being so naiive and not taking advantage of the word of God through the scriptures to find out the truth of it for herself from our Father in Heaven and what actions she should take accordingly; but, it was irresponsible of Sister Rowe to scream it from the rooftops as the hypocrites do and assume the responsibility of the Prophet in informing the Church of what she has or has not been told is to be expected.

This being said, it may still come to pass that it comes about just as she said.

Still, if it does and she was not given inspiration to publish the vision, I for my part, wouldn't wish to greet my Savior face to face upon His return having just one-upped His own prophet with information that was entrusted to me.

Just my two cents worth.

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Generational thanks for your input. That's a lot of money spent by your family for getting prepared for what julie is prophesying. To me she is prophesying and according to definition she is. To me she is not called and set apart by church leaders to do what she is falsely doing. Now some will say, but its said on the scriptures some will prophesy and others dream dreams and so on. I believe this is true but it does not mean you will be given a vision and told to teach people what you saw. And she has said this is what her mission is, to be another witness and share this message her vision. I'm fine with sharing a inspired experience but anyone with a ounce of integrity can see she is telling you events like tent city and installing fear thru veiled threats of being left behind if not prepared according to her supposedly harmonious view of being prepared as our leaders have set forth. Now some say she is doing no harm she is so nice and the spirit had confirmed to me the truth of her message. I'm sure some people thought hitler was nice and believed and shared his vision. I look at not only her message I look at how it affects me and how does God operate. And I search and pray, I hope I am worthy enough to be a real person and down to earth. Not a nut job and it's not that I'm anyone of any means or rep. I'm just trying to be like my Father as I learn of Him as He really is. And He quite amazing and not at all like us and yet like us in others. As I have said before I believe this entity john is not of God and julie takes it upon herself to presume she is called in a great calling in her pride. Also if I had this vision and some dude tells me to wait years and then share this vision I would think surely I am not worthy of such a thing as great and important as this so I would talk to my Bishop about this. Her message is quite sensational and I found it pleasing to my mind. But my gut tells me something is not right in her. Also people are acting on her predictions spending money and employing great efforts on different ways that are not in accordance to wisdom and prudence as our leaders have counseled. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe this is all a dream. Lol

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Maud, just a warning, using Hilter or Nazis as examples are seen as too extreme for civil discourse, tends to take it to a much more aggressive tone, so mods have banned the use of the two as comparison, only if one is talking about the history and about them themselves and not using them to add 'insight' to something else, hope that makes sense...

 

Any way, using such invokes what is labeled Godwin's law and causes the thread to be locked or the poster to be banned from the thread by mods or if they do it often or use other extremes like serial killers, mass murderers, etc….

 

So you might want to edit the thread, there is no need for that extreme.  Unless you mean she is a mass murderer psycho, not sure why you are using him as a comparison anyway….you should use someone you think is a much closer fit and not a psycho hopefully...

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hello, i am trying to decide if sister rowe had a real vision and if so it is quite remarkable . my 7 children are divided on the subject and i am not yet committed either way. i have tried e mailing to her but no reply but i am sure she is busy. nothing online that i see offers anything against her or i would say an opposing view on the matter. i do question her saying the church is purchasing tents for the coming gathering and preparing places of refuge.i went to the church website and thru feedback asked if tents were being prepared as she stated, also i looked around the website. i found the church does obtain tents but for the disasters as needed not for the gathering as she says, so far. the church rep for the church response team said he does not know of any such preparation of tents as sister rowe claims and also said she has no right to say such things which is the leaders job. now this may be as far as the rep knows and what he says may be opinion. so what do you think?  also i wonder what her bishops take is on all this as i think that could speak volumes. has anyone heard on this matter of the bishop or the church for that matter? i will talk to my bishop on this and i will soon come to the answer. yes i have prayed and so far this is the path i seem to be on now. my family is affected by this and so i will find what is the truth. for the most part all our lives are proceeding as usual none of my children are doing anything extreme but are more focused on prepping, i myself will do what i can but my resources are very limited so i just do what i can do. i really dont worry about myself i will just follow the prophet and the spirit. would like some opposing views on her to help weigh this matter. ive always liked movies on  end of the world stuff, you know road warrior, deep impact etc. trouble is im a little lame due to motorcycle accidents and bouncing off cars. bummer. as a side note all our blessing seem to address end of the world matters so that makes this all the more involving in a way. all my kids are promised safety when the destructions come and know this. thanks for any help and email me if you can, i hope i dont make trouble and if so i apologize.

It took me a while to find out what a NDE was. Well, it can't be refuted one way or the other.

 

Do you have doubts about it because Julie is a woman and someone has convinced you that God only works through men? Might I remind you that Deborah (Judges 4 and 5) was a prophet? This sticks in my mind because I was a visitor at the ARCO meeting house this summer when a woman started to give a message on Deborah and two men in the congregation began to openly make fun of her.

 

It pains me that you are so apologetic. You have as much right to an opinion as any man.

 

Can she have talked to God, or an angel in her experience? You bet !  The only way she will know if it is true is if it happens. I'd be on Julie's side.

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I get from Maud it is not about her being a woman, but not someone called to be a prophet, seer and revelator to the Church as a whole. The vast majority of men aren't in this position either.

" I'd be on Julie's side"

I wouldn't be because these types of promotions of individuals' visions have in my experience in many individuals led to greater fear, mistrust of one's fellowman including in one's community and less dependence on God.

Edited by calmoriah
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I guess I mean how can anyone prophesy for the Church without being called and set apart by Gods leaders here on earth. Especially in today's church it being organized as it is. There have been others like julie in the last at least 50 yrs. and it is perplexing seeing a female in the role as a prophet as in the office of the prophet, but now that I think about it maybe the role was of prophesying for what she had a right to. Also there is sometime the problem of mistranslation. Also I have no problem with a female driving as I can kick back and sleep. I received a great insight in the temple as to what a great person in all ways Eve was. To me she did what had to be done and it must of took great faith and courage. Anyway what gets me fired up is when we get people who lead people into real trouble and hurt them one way or another that's why I am here, be that what it may. In conference it seemed to me a few talks addressed julie rowes prophesying right on. The talks on who can revelate for who. And if satan is leading her around on a leash people will be hurt. And that's so sad. Also I agree anyone can be visited by angels spirits devils real and imaginary. Don't you think it would be a good idea to talk with your Bishop if you have a vision you have any question on or if you are told to share with the church and it contains new information for the church ie tent city specifics on other prophesy heavenly mother! And so on. Can you not see she is assuming a role she has no right to. Again as to those who say she is doing good, yes there is some good come of this but as in the garden even the snake spoke the truth to achieve evil. As to if she is evil can't a prayer answer that? Yes no maybe so? Of course it can but it isn't always so simple because of your circumstances now before and then. Why do you think there are so many answers on her as a false prophet or the real deal? They all say if was a confirmation from the Holy Ghost. What does it all mean Baasell.

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  • 1 month later...

When I first read Julie Rowe's book, I really questioned her authenticity. Not because what she was saying sounded wrong. Quite the opposite. It was similar to everything else I read that it sounded like she was regurgitating everything I've read before. I thought her book was a plagiaristic composite of everything you can find in this genre of material (LDS NDE's and OBE's). 

 

But then I heard her speak on Mills Crenshaw's radio. I after listening to her for 15 or 20 minutes, then for hours, I realized she was a very sincere person telling about what she really experienced.

 

So I say this regarding the content of her comments. They are consistent with everything I've ever read, and I think I've read 'em all. Her NDE is supported by a number of other sources, which have come out at different times and places for over 180 years. It's quite fascinating to "harmonize" these accounts one with another. Go read Dreams and Visions of the Latter Days for a veritable compendium of many of them.

 

I become concerned when people (readers/listeners) make sudden, drastic changes in their life based on another person's recounting--selling all they have for example, buying tents and selling their houses, cashing out, that kind of thing. I think there is real personal and family harm that can come of this. I see these materials as motivation to repent and to draw closer to the spirit. When Joseph Smith appeared to Brigham Young after his death, BY, who asked a lot of questions, was simply told to get the Spirit and all would be well. We should do likewise.

 

There is a lot of confusion between prophetic utterances and being the Prophet with a capital "P" or even prophets, seers and revelatory for the LDS church. A testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy (Revelation 19:10), no matter your religion. Joseph Smith said anyone can develop it if they work at it and pay attention to it.* Moses and later Joseph lamented "Would the Lord that all his people were prophets." Numbers 11:29. But that does not make someone the Prophet. And Rowe would never say that. She states she honors the leaders of the church, and she openly supports and sustains them. She tries to be very careful with what she says while still following the mandate to share what she has seen with others. We have become too entrenched that only the Prophet or leaders can prophesy. That's not true. Anyone who speaks under the influence of the Holy Spirit is making scripture**, but does that mean we are bound by their words? Probably not.

 

I don't think a NDE qualifies as a prophetic utterance. We have wonderful spiritual elements in the gospel at our disposal: dreams, visions, prophecy, seers and revelators. NDE may be classified partially among those categories. One interesting feature of NDE'ers is they are more spiritually attuned after their experience, and that can be helpful in administering to others after the event.

 

I think Julie Rowe would be concerned to hear people taking drastic action in their lives such as selling all they have and buying tents in place of their home, or making extremely rash, significant short-term decisions based upon her opening up about her NDE. 

 

The trickiest part about revelations concerning future events is timing. Even after Jesus died, people thought his second coming was imminent. When the restoration of the gospel occurred, those in and out of the church expected his return in their lifetime. The Lord pushed it out for Joseph, saying if he lived to be 85 it would be before that, and for us, it's been even longer.

 

Anyone who has felt the spirit intensely always feels a sense of urgency and the "the time is now." Having said that, I don't know what the time is for these things to occur, but there are too many witnesses to isolate her experience only to ignore her. She is the most recent of a long of NDE's and other visions. And there will be others in the future. Hundreds of people have already contacted her to say she is not alone in her iexperiences.

 

When Rowe says it's "now," she is not putting a date on it. On one interview she said the car they just bought is the car they had when things "hit the fan" and they change out cars every 5 years. Are we to RELY on that alone to make major financial decisions, or head for the hills? I don't think so. Maybe future events will cause her to keep the car longer than normal. The Lord always makes the future NOW. "Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man..." D&C 64:23.

 

One thing we know about the difficult and wonderful times ahead: we're closer now than we've ever been. Having a sense of urgency and a spirit of preparation is a good thing. The food storage my parents bought 45 years ago that has for the most part spoiled and rotted was still a good thing and it's a good thing today. Rowe does not stand alone in her predictions based upon what she saw. In fact, I found very little that was unique, it's always good to hear a new perspective on the same scenarios, whether you read the revelations of the future from Jesus of Nazareth, Joseph Smith, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, Heber C. Kimball, Charles D. Evans, George Washington, the woman at the Cardston temple dedication, Sarah Menet, Betty Eadie, Johns Pontius's "Spencer," Alfred D. Young's OBE in 1842 (out of body experience, he was not sick or in bad health, unlike most, which are NDE's arising out of sickness or physical trauma), or my friend's account who had an OBE at the tender age of three years old, they all have similar messages of warning and comfort.

 

I believe the time is short. Very short. But I don't know if that means 5 years, 10 years, or 20 years. Rowe says, based upon the things she saw, it's very, very soon, basically, now. My only challenge to this prediction is this. John Taylor saw these calamities but he did not see or describe cars or other modern contraptions in the scenes he saw. He describes contraptions that were current, not futuristic. Charles D. Evans is the first one to sound very modern, in the late 1880's, describing "missiles." My point is, maybe NDE'ers have contextual visions explained by current surroundings and things, not items yet to be created int the future, so it all seems very NOW. I'm suggesting that the "contextual" way they see the "future" may push the time frame out a little beyond their NOW view of things.

 

Do I believe these things will happen in my lifetime? Absolutely. Do I think others 100 years ago thought they would happen in their lifetimes? Absolutely. 2000 years ago? Absolutely. But I'm closer to being right than they only because I live in the present, which is the closest thing to the future.

 

Let's look at the signs the times as guideposts, and above that, always follow the spirit. Then all will be well with us, no matter when, where or what happens. 

 

Aren't we blessed to have so many witnesses and warnings about the future? I thank those who have have the courage and willingness to be outspoken when prompted. I often wish they could say more, but unfortunately, they are constrained, and I know things are withheld for many good reasons.

 

 

 

*“A person may profit by noticing the first intimation of the spirit of revelation; for instance, when you feel pure intelligence flowing into you, it may give you sudden strokes of ideas, so that by noticing it, you may find it fulfilled the same day or soon; (i.e.) those things that were presented unto your minds by the Spirit of God, will come to pass; and thus by learning the Spirit of God and understanding it, you may grow into the principle of revelation, until you become perfect in Christ Jesus.” History of the Church, 3:381

 

** 4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation." D&C 68:4.

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When I first read Julie Rowe's book, I really questioned her authenticity. Not because what she was saying sounded wrong. Quite the opposite. It was similar to everything else I read that it sounded like she was regurgitating everything I've read before. I thought her book was a plagiaristic composite of everything you can find in this genre of material (LDS NDE's and OBE's).

But then I heard her speak on Mills Crenshaw's radio. I after listening to her for 15 or 20 minutes, then for hours, I realized she was a very sincere person telling about what she really experienced.

So I say this regarding the content of her comments. They are consistent with everything I've ever read, and I think I've read 'em all. Her NDE is supported by a number of other sources, which have come out at different times and places for over 180 years. It's quite fascinating to "harmonize" these accounts one with another. Go read Dreams and Visions of the Latter Days for a veritable compendium of many of them.

I become concerned when people (readers/listeners) make sudden, drastic changes in their life based on another person's recounting--selling all they have for example, buying tents and selling their houses, cashing out, that kind of thing. I think there is real personal and family harm that can come of this. I see these materials as motivation to repent and to draw closer to the spirit. When Joseph Smith appeared to Brigham Young after his death, BY, who asked a lot of questions, was simply told to get the Spirit and all would be well. We should do likewise.

There is a lot of confusion between prophetic utterances and being the Prophet with a capital "P" or even prophets, seers and revelatory for the LDS church. A testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy (Revelation 19:10), no matter your religion. Joseph Smith said anyone can develop it if they work at it and pay attention to it.* Moses and later Joseph lamented "Would the Lord that all his people were prophets." Numbers 11:29. But that does not make someone the Prophet. And Rowe would never say that. She states she honors the leaders of the church, and she openly supports and sustains them. She tries to be very careful with what she says while still following the mandate to share what she has seen with others. We have become too entrenched that only the Prophet or leaders can prophesy. That's not true. Anyone who speaks under the influence of the Holy Spirit is making scripture**, but does that mean we are bound by their words? Probably not.

I don't think a NDE qualifies as a prophetic utterance. We have wonderful spiritual elements in the gospel at our disposal: dreams, visions, prophecy, seers and revelators. NDE may be classified partially among those categories. One interesting feature of NDE'ers is they are more spiritually attuned after their experience, and that can be helpful in administering to others after the event.

I think Julie Rowe would be concerned to hear people taking drastic action in their lives such as selling all they have and buying tents in place of their home, or making extremely rash, significant short-term decisions based upon her opening up about her NDE.

The trickiest part about revelations concerning future events is timing. Even after Jesus died, people thought his second coming was imminent. When the restoration of the gospel occurred, those in and out of the church expected his return in their lifetime. The Lord pushed it out for Joseph, saying if he lived to be 85 it would be before that, and for us, it's been even longer.

Anyone who has felt the spirit intensely always feels a sense of urgency and the "the time is now." Having said that, I don't know what the time is for these things to occur, but there are too many witnesses to isolate her experience only to ignore her. She is the most recent of a long of NDE's and other visions. And there will be others in the future. Hundreds of people have already contacted her to say she is not alone in her iexperiences.

When Rowe says it's "now," she is not putting a date on it. On one interview she said the car they just bought is the car they had when things "hit the fan" and they change out cars every 5 years. Are we to RELY on that alone to make major financial decisions, or head for the hills? I don't think so. Maybe future events will cause her to keep the car longer than normal. The Lord always makes the future NOW. "Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man..." D&C 64:23.

One thing we know about the difficult and wonderful times ahead: we're closer now than we've ever been. Having a sense of urgency and a spirit of preparation is a good thing. The food storage my parents bought 45 years ago that has for the most part spoiled and rotted was still a good thing and it's a good thing today. Rowe does not stand alone in her predictions based upon what she saw. In fact, I found very little that was unique, it's always good to hear a new perspective on the same scenarios, whether you read the revelations of the future from Jesus of Nazareth, Joseph Smith, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, Heber C. Kimball, Charles D. Evans, George Washington, the woman at the Cardston temple dedication, Sarah Menet, Betty Eadie, Johns Pontius's "Spencer," Alfred D. Young's OBE in 1842 (out of body experience, he was not sick or in bad health, unlike most, which are NDE's arising out of sickness or physical trauma), or my friend's account who had an OBE at the tender age of three years old, they all have similar messages of warning and comfort.

I believe the time is short. Very short. But I don't know if that means 5 years, 10 years, or 20 years. Rowe says, based upon the things she saw, it's very, very soon, basically, now. My only challenge to this prediction is this. John Taylor saw these calamities but he did not see or describe cars or other modern contraptions in the scenes he saw. He describes contraptions that were current, not futuristic. Charles D. Evans is the first one to sound very modern, in the late 1880's, describing "missiles." My point is, maybe NDE'ers have contextual visions explained by current surroundings and things, not items yet to be created int the future, so it all seems very NOW. I'm suggesting that the "contextual" way they see the "future" may push the time frame out a little beyond their NOW view of things.

Do I believe these things will happen in my lifetime? Absolutely. Do I think others 100 years ago thought they would happen in their lifetimes? Absolutely. 2000 years ago? Absolutely. But I'm closer to being right than they only because I live in the present, which is the closest thing to the future.

Let's look at the signs the times as guideposts, and above that, always follow the spirit. Then all will be well with us, no matter when, where or what happens.

Aren't we blessed to have so many witnesses and warnings about the future? I thank those who have have the courage and willingness to be outspoken when prompted. I often wish they could say more, but unfortunately, they are constrained, and I know things are withheld for many good reasons.

*“A person may profit by noticing the first intimation of the spirit of revelation; for instance, when you feel pure intelligence flowing into you, it may give you sudden strokes of ideas, so that by noticing it, you may find it fulfilled the same day or soon; (i.e.) those things that were presented unto your minds by the Spirit of God, will come to pass; and thus by learning the Spirit of God and understanding it, you may grow into the principle of revelation, until you become perfect in Christ Jesus.” History of the Church, 3:381

** 4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation." D&C 68:4.

Well written and presented; food for thought.

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I think your post is quite thoughtful and I would likely be a lot more comfortable if this was all it is.

But too often it becomes a business for those sharing their experiences and they become mini messiahs to their followers, especially if they talk about all the wonderful miracles and roles they will be given to fulfill later on as "Spencer" does.

Not having read Rowe I don't know how she has described her future role if any, being a woman in the Church she less likely presents herself as a future leader, I am guessing. I have however gone to her website where she is promoting many things including a form of alternative healing she is claiming the Lord has instructed her to spread the word about that is going to change the world.

And with all her appearances she is becoming a celebrity and making it appear as if this was some God given mission she is on...even asking for prayers because "someone doesn't want her on" some radio show.

Given her books are the number 1 and 2 on the Mormon market on Amazon, Pontius is three...a sad statement IMO on what is most important to many lds, and the many financial aspects of her website, she is probably bringing in a ton of money in her role of prophetess. I would be more impressed if all that money was going somewhere else, she just pit her experiences online for anyone to read and encouraged people to go to the Church websites to study instruction there about being prepared.

Edited by calmoriah
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  • 4 weeks later...

I recently read her book, and enjoyed reading everyone's comments below.

 

I had my own childhood experiences (visions/dreams) which are aligned very closely with Julie's. After reading her book and seeing her video clips, I believe that the experience was very real for her. I also believe that everything she says about the future is possible - but I do not believe it to be fact. If you consider all the predictions made throughout the past 2000 years, and prepared yourself for each of them, you would be a very busy person with a lot food and equipment, and living perpetually in fear. That is not the reason why we are here on earth.

 

We should look at the core truths in Julie's message, which is consistent with our LDS knowledge from scripture and prophets:

- live your life today as if Christ is going to be with you tomorrow, because he might (be Christ-like in all that you do). This is spiritual preparation.

- set aside food storage and other needs to support you and your family for 3-6 months, in case there is a catastrophic event. This is temporal preparation.

- if there is a need to 'run for the hills', we will receive that counsel from our prophet at the appropriate time. Julie said this also. There is no need to take that matter into our own hands.

 

There is no need to mortgage your house and buy a cabin/tent in the mountains. If everyone did that, we would have a self-fulfilling prophecy. 

 

I think we need to ask ourselves, "what is my focus?". Is it to stay alive and survive at all costs, living in constant fear of threat from invasion from other countries, and hoarding supplies to survive in the wilderness?

 

Our focus should be to be prepared spiritually as best as possible, because this is within our control. 

 

I would rather remain with my family where I am now, with 3-6months of food for emergencies. Then, if our Prophet calls for us, I will respond. Or, if I have personal, strong, revelation, I will respond. 

 

I'm going to die one day of something, and I am not afraid of that. So I don't want to live in fear about not knowing which hill or tent to run to, even if it means dying in the process of running. If I continue to live a gospel centered life in the present, I will have eternal life anyway.

 

I think Julie is entitled to share her experience and message, and I hope that this inspires everyone to prepare themselves spiritually and create a sense of urgency. God will still love you if you don't make it to the tents.

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

The fireside flyer I received said that she is going to share what she was taught and "what it means for you" in those words. I really think its fine for someone to talk about their experiences - although I will not contend with anyone who says a sacred experience is for them and them alone - but I think it crosses the line when someone starts telling others what they must do, when they begin seeing and disclosing the future, oh heck I will just say it: When they start prophesying and directing.  So now enters a motivation for that being done: Books get sold. Do the profits go for a charity or into the bank?

(Actually the answer to that is that she probably has not made profit on the books. I know how that goes for too many authors who aren't general authorities of one sort or other.)

 

There certainly have been books about NDE experiences. I think that a person who has a special experience needs to protect against getting carried away talking about it more than appropriate.

 

That's what I think.

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I so agree with davidjk. If we truly believe the gospel and about eternal life, then....

 

"Our focus should be to be prepared spiritually as best as possible, because this is within our control. 

 

I would rather remain with my family where I am now, with 3-6months of food for emergencies. Then, if our Prophet calls for us, I will respond. Or, if I have personal, strong, revelation, I will respond. 

 

I'm going to die one day of something, and I am not afraid of that. So I don't want to live in fear about not knowing which hill or tent to run to, even if it means dying in the process of running. If I continue to live a gospel centered life in the present, I will have eternal life anyway."

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