Evolution Is Alive And Well In Hawaii

[strappinglad]

We are composite beings. To make a strange analogy , gasoline is not the tank it goes in but without the tank it's energy is unfocused . A child of God is not the body it develops in but without that body it's progress is hindered . Our body is constructed from the elements of the earth using the DNA coding found in every organism. Like computer code, DNA code gives strong evidence of intelligence behind it's presence . If someone wants to believe that the bear and the eagle have a common ancestor, fine. I don't think God is that inefficient .Now if one takes God completely out of the picture, one still has to deal with the laws of probability.

[Tiki]

Right, because there hasn't been any new evidence since the 1850s.

Which evidence would that be? ManBearWhalePig?

[Duncan]

Which evidence would that be? ManBearWhalePig?

ManBearWhalePig!!hahahahahahahaha x 1000! that's something the care bears would dream about!

[jkwilliams]

Which evidence would that be? ManBearWhalePig?

 

Well, for one thing there's the observed evolution of e coli in the Lenski experiment, and then there are such things as the development of pesticide-resistant bedbugs in the US, where we can see the genetic mutations and compare them to a colony that has been in a controlled environment since the 1970s: no pesticides have been introduced, so there has been no such natural selection. You may think it's nonsense, but there's a lot of evidence in the fossil record, in nature, and in controlled laboratory experiments. If organic evolution is nonsense, we should see the opposite occurring.

[Calm]

. If someone wants to believe that the bear and the eagle have a common ancestor, fine. I don't think God is that inefficient.

Interesting...I have always looked on evolution as being more efficient...basically setting up the parameters and letting the earth and its inhabitants run themselves (as far as physical development goes). Most result for least effort....as far as time involved, if one has the eternities to play with why be concerned about speed?

Edited June 2, 2014 by calmoriah

[jkwilliams]

Interesting...I have always looked on evolution as being more efficient...basically setting up the parameters and letting the earth and it's inhabitants run themselves (as far as physical development goes). Most result for least effort....as far as time involved, if one has the eternities to play with why be concerned about speed?

 

Well said. If God created life, I think it's kind of cool that he provided a built-in mechanism so that life can adapt and survive. Without the possibility of evolving, a single catastrophic event could have wiped out all life at once.

[Duncan]

Well, for one thing there's the observed evolution of e coli in the Lenski experiment, and then there are such things as the development of pesticide-resistant bedbugs in the US, where we can see the genetic mutations and compare them to a colony that has been in a controlled environment since the 1970s: no pesticides have been introduced, so there has been no such natural selection. You may think it's nonsense, but there's a lot of evidence in the fossil record, in nature, and in controlled laboratory experiments. If organic evolution is nonsense, we should see the opposite occurring.

 

mutations are one thing but a bedbug is a bedbug is a bedbug but do bedbugs turn into something else entirely over time?like they don't grow gills or have flippers or something. I am no scientist but shouldn't we see bugs with very short life spans be turning into something else?

[jkwilliams]

mutations are one thing but a bedbug is a bedbug is a bedbug but do bedbugs turn into something else entirely over time?like they don't grow gills or have flippers or something. I am no scientist but shouldn't we see bugs with very short life spans be turning into something else?

 

That's not what we see in the fossil record, so no, we shouldn't expect such rapid evolution from one species to another. Speciation takes a very long time. Think, for example, of the nene in Hawaii, which apparently descended from a common ancestor of the Canada goose, arriving in Hawaii some 500,000 years ago. They look quite similar to a Canada goose, but they are different in morphology and behavior.

[Duncan]

Well said. If God created life, I think it's kind of cool that he provided a built-in mechanism so that life can adapt and survive. Without the possibility of evolving, a single catastrophic event could have wiped out all life at once.

 

isn't that the theory of why the dinosaurs aren't around anymore and who knows what else didn't make it, something catastrophic happened. I don't think all life was taken out but it seems the big stuff was

[Tiki]

One good evidence for the Theory of Evolution is the discovery of the primitive hominid "Eoanthropus dawsoni."

He was naturally selected from a quarry in Sussex, England.

[jkwilliams]

isn't that the theory of why the dinosaurs aren't around anymore and who knows what else didn't make it, something catastrophic happened. I don't think all life was taken out but it seems the big stuff was

 

I'm talking about all life being taken out. Species survive catastrophic events because certain parts of the population have traits that allow survival. Without the mechanism of mutation, everything could be wiped out at once.

[jkwilliams]

One good evidence for the Theory of Evolution is the discovery of the primitive hominid "Eoanthropus dawsoni."

He was naturally selected from a quarry in Sussex, England.

 

So, you aren't interested in actually discussing the evidence for or against evolution. Duly noted.

[Flyonthewall]

Scientifically speaking, if a I travel back far enough, I find a single celled organism or a puddle of primordial ooze brimming with chemicals on the verge of some sort of a reaction that will generate "life".

Religiously speaking, if I go back far enough, I will find God... not a puddle of ooze, not a single celled organism, not a rat, or a cat, or an ape.

Perhaps my poor mind is not sophisticated enough to discern enough shades of gray to be okay with evolution as fact. To me it is a theory, a work in progress with as many unknowns as anything else.

[jkwilliams]

Scientifically speaking, if a I travel back far enough, I find a single celled organism or a puddle of primordial ooze brimming with chemicals on the verge of some sort of a reaction that will generate "life".

Religiously speaking, if I go back far enough, I will find God... not a puddle of ooze, not a single celled organism, not a rat, or a cat, or an ape.

Perhaps my poor mind is not sophisticated enough to discern enough shades of gray to be okay with evolution as fact. To me it is a theory, a work in progress with as many unknowns as anything else.

 

The question is whether God could have created that initial organism and set the evolutionary process in motion. I don't see any reason why not.

[Flyonthewall]

The question is whether God could have created that initial organism and set the evolutionary process in motion. I don't see any reason why not.

That is true, God could have set the evolutionary process in motion.... or He could have not needed it and created everything on this earth as is.

[Tiki]

So, you aren't interested in actually discussing the evidence for or against evolution. Duly noted.

Sure I am. Didn't I just quote Charles Darwins claim that a North American Black Bear can evolve into a monstrous creature like a whale?

And Elder Talmage mentioned Piltdown Man in his writings. So why aren't you? Is it was evidence for evolution from the 1900s to the 1950s.

And, If you're actually interested in discussing the evidence for or against evolution, why don't you mention the scriptures or the article "Origins of Man" reprinted in the Feb 2002 Ensign? Or has more evidence for Evolution been discovered since 2002? You know like crickets being eaten by maggots which proves Adam descended from an Ape.

[jkwilliams]

That is true, God could have set the evolutionary process in motion.... or He could have not needed it and created everything on this earth as is.

 

Sure, he could have, but that's not what the fossil record shows. There is a clear and consistent pattern of evolving life forms in one direction. Either God has used evolution as a natural process to create the varieties of species we see, or he has intentionally made the history of the earth look that way, even though he created everything as is. I don't see any reason why God would try to fool us.

[Duncan]

That's not what we see in the fossil record, so no, we shouldn't expect such rapid evolution from one species to another. Speciation takes a very long time. Think, for example, of the nene in Hawaii, which apparently descended from a common ancestor of the Canada goose, arriving in Hawaii some 500,000 years ago. They look quite similar to a Canada goose, but they are different in morphology and behavior.

 

 

had no idea what a Nene was! hahaha! man, Hawaiians ripping off our birds, tsk tsk tsk! to me it's still a goose and looks like a descendant from another form of goose, that's what I am saying it's still a bird and not half bird and half something else. I agree things mutate but it's still a bird and that kind of bird and not something else, like do they carry the genes to start producing teeth or the ability to talk or something like I can't imagine all of a sudden they start changing into something else entirely but if it happens over millions of years something happened at some point to start this change from a goose to a bear or something, what is that mechanism of change and does it still exist in the DNA structure of that goose?

[jkwilliams]

Sure I am. Didn't I just quote Charles Darwins claim that a North American Black Bear can evolve into a monstrous creature like a whale?

And Elder Talmage mentioned Piltdown Man in his writings. So why aren't you? Is it was evidence for evolution from the 1900s to the 1950s.

And, If you're actually interested in discussing the evidence for or against evolution, why don't you mention the scriptures or the article "Origins of Man" reprinted in the Feb 2002 Ensign? Or has more evidence for Evolution been discovered since 2002? You know like crickets being eaten by maggots which proves Adam descended from an Ape.

 

I'm not going to argue with you about your religious beliefs. Sorry.

[jkwilliams]

had no idea what a Nene was! hahaha! man, Hawaiians ripping off our birds, tsk tsk tsk! to me it's still a goose and looks like a descendant from another form of goose, that's what I am saying it's still a bird and not half bird and half something else. I agree things mutate but it's still a bird and that kind of bird and not something else, like do they carry the genes to start producing teeth or the ability to talk or something like I can't imagine all of a sudden they start changing into something else entirely but if it happens over millions of years something happened at some point to start this change from a goose to a bear or something, what is that mechanism of change and does it still exist in the DNA structure of that goose?

 

Yes, the mechanism of change is the same: genetic mutation and natural selection.

Edited June 2, 2014 by jkwilliams

[halconero]

had no idea what a Nene was! hahaha! man, Hawaiians ripping off our birds, tsk tsk tsk! to me it's still a goose and looks like a descendant from another form of goose, that's what I am saying it's still a bird and not half bird and half something else. I agree things mutate but it's still a bird and that kind of bird and not something else, like do they carry the genes to start producing teeth or the ability to talk or something like I can't imagine all of a sudden they start changing into something else entirely but if it happens over millions of years something happened at some point to start this change from a goose to a bear or something, what is that mechanism of change and does it still exist in the DNA structure of that goose?

We actually all share the same DNA. From trees, to plankton, to the most complex organism. It's how it's arranged that counts.

[Duncan]

Yes, the mechanism of change is the same: genetic mutation and natural selection.

 

I agree things mutate, my sisters-the gruesome twosome are a prime example   but I don't see things totally changing into something else

[strappinglad]

Which is the most complex organism, a mosquito with 6 chromosomes, a dog with 78 or the ciliated protozoa with 15600 ?

[Flyonthewall]

Sure, he could have, but that's not what the fossil record shows. There is a clear and consistent pattern of evolving life forms in one direction. Either God has used evolution as a natural process to create the varieties of species we see, or he has intentionally made the history of the earth look that way, even though he created everything as is. I don't see any reason why God would try to fool us.

I don't think it is a matter of God trying to fool us, just that our interpretation needs refinement.

I believe the fossil record pre-dates this world, the world created for us as described in the scriptures.

[Calm]

Scientifically speaking, if a I travel back far enough, I find a single celled organism or a puddle of primordial ooze brimming with chemicals on the verge of some sort of a reaction that will generate "life".Religiously speaking, if I go back far enough, I will find God... not a puddle of ooze, not a single celled organism, not a rat, or a cat, or an ape.Perhaps my poor mind is not sophisticated enough to discern enough shades of gray to be okay with evolution as fact. To me it is a theory, a work in progress with as many unknowns as anything else.

I love the image of God squatting down next to a puddle of ooze stirring it with his finger or maybe simply blowing on it, causing ripples and just that little shift that was needed for "dust" to become life.

If Jesus can heal a blind man using mud, I don't see God being adverse to making some rather interesting mudpies that then made other mudpies and eventually some things more complicated.

Edited June 2, 2014 by calmoriah