why me Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Ok all. I think we've gotten off the track of my post. I understand the rules and all. Heck, I go there! (well, BYU-Idaho anyway) but what I wanted to know was about the experiences people have seen happen with this. The question wasn't about right or wrong, or snitching. It is about what has happened to those that had to go to the bishop. No hypothetical please. We all know what can happen. What I want to know is what has happened in general. How is it usually treated? I think that no society can function properly when there is snitching going on. BYU is a community of individuals and if snitching ever became a part of academic life, such life would be harmed. So, I believe that snitching is not rampant and if it does occur and if the snitch is discovered, the snitch would have a very hard time making friends and being included in the general society of BYU students.
mormonnewb Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I think that no society can function properly when there is snitching going on. BYU is a community of individuals and if snitching ever became a part of academic life, such life would be harmed. So, I believe that snitching is not rampant and if it does occur and if the snitch is discovered, the snitch would have a very hard time making friends and being included in the general society of BYU students.I am TOTALLY out of my element here, but when has that ever stopped me from chiming in? My understanding is that snitching is NOT rare. In fact, it seems to be encouraged by the recent "friends don't let friends watch porn" video out of BYU-I. The message from the video is the post 9/11 mantra: "See something. Say something."Of course, maybe the students have the good sense not to take it upon themselves to police OTHER people's religious observance. But wouldn't that be something we'd consider to be even worse - disobedience of the leadership?
Gohan Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) You know, I have been going to BYU-I now and am about to graduate soon. Of course, you know we have all heard about the honor code and how it is our duty to report violations. I would like to know you guy's experience with BYU schools and the honor code, specifically sex related stuff, and getting kicked out of school. The reason I am asking is because it is always being brought up in our classes by students in our "what if / cast study" scenarios (even outside religion classes) Kids are always asking questions like "should I turn my friend in to the bishop?". Obviously the would, but they seem scared more of the Bishop kicking their friend out of school than anything else. My question is what is usually the end result of a bishop finding out a student is having sex at the BYU schools? Are they toast?I'm up at BYU-I too. Personally, I despise the whole 'become narcs' attitude. If I've notice something, I'm going to privately discuss it with them and encourage them to go to their bishop. Not turn them over to the honor code office where the administrator tells kids that he didn't care what was best for them and "it's not my job to pray about your situation before I make a decision." Better that they work with a bishop that somewhat knows them and has the spirit than some office worker who says it has no place in what he does. And the outcome - with bishops - is generally mixed. If they confess, possess godly sorrow, and demonstrate the desire to change, that's generally a good sign, but it depends on where they stand in life(covenants) and whatever inspiration that the bishop gets for their scenario. Edited March 31, 2014 by Gohan 1
Truth 101 Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I'm up at BYU-I too. Personally, I despise the whole 'become narcs' attitude. If I've notice something, I'm going to privately discuss it with them and encourage them to go to their bishop. Not turn them over to the honor code office where the administrator tells kids that he didn't care what was best for them and "it's not my job to pray about your situation before I make a decision." Better that they work with a bishop that somewhat knows them and has the spirit than some office worker who says it has no place in what he does. And the outcome - with bishops - is generally mixed. If they confess, possess godly sorrow, and demonstrate the desire to change, that's generally a good sign, but it depends on where they stand in life(covenants) and whatever inspiration that the bishop gets for their scenario. I've always hated tattle-tells also. If anything was happening like my roommate who I share a room with is bringing his GF in and doing it with me in the room or if drugs are being sold out of my dorm, I'm not gonna nark, I'm gonna take care of it myself and tell the person off, and if they backtalk well then maybe they need a smack in their smart mouth.
thatjimguy Posted March 31, 2014 Author Posted March 31, 2014 This is actually a difficult dilemma to face. I grew up when snitching was forbidden and seemed to cast the tattle tale into the same degree of sin. It is still the same today. Wait, I don't get it. I havent heard that one as far as this is concerned. Aren't we also too not sustain someone's calling if we know they are not worthy? If I knew with 100% surety that my roommate was actively breaking the rules I would consider an anonymous note to his Bishop. Now this means the big honor code violation such as sex, we're not talking a parking violation here. I tend to lean this way because of the verses in the Book of Mormon about the Gadianton robbers who flourished because the covenants made not to snitch on each other. According to what I have gotten from our leaders and BYU materials, there is no "parking violation" for any kind of sexual contact. That is right. The Gadianton Robbers would make pacts not to tell on each other. I remember professors talking about that one. I would hope that the punishment process can be one without expelling the student, however BYU is a privet school and everyone seems to know what is allowed and what is not. Even here in Nebraska they know... That is what I am curious about. What is the norm in this case? I don't know I tend to lean on the telling side, but still is it my business? I am glad I have never been in that situation. It is tough. My thought is would a parent get involved if they knew? Probably. And they would because they love thier kid. The difference is they have no potential loss for social standing (everyone expects parents to take action, therefore no social stigma to carry with them). By telling, you would get railed by everyone behind your back.
thatjimguy Posted March 31, 2014 Author Posted March 31, 2014 I wonder if the restrictions at BYU really stop what happens, but probably more than say, U of U. I just wonder if this mentality stunts maturity and the idea they are old enough to make decisions without the auhority figure. Old enough to kill for our coountry + old enough to get married and pop out kids = old enough to live without supervision 1
daz2 Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 In Calvin's Generva and in Puritan New England there was a tradition of "holy watching" to "help each other" follow God's standards. That is, everyone engaged in "holy watching" of everyone else, and were supposed to turn each other in to the disciplinary bodies if someone strayed. A lot of people chafed at people minding each other's business, and maybe critics refered to them as police states. As far as I know, "holy watching" is largely a thing of the past, except at the BYUs. ;-) Actually, I was a student at BYU 40 years ago, with essentially the same honor code. I never turned anyone in, ever, either to the honor code office or to the bishop. I did have friends who I encouraged to talk to the bishop about things they were struggling with, and as I recall, all of them did when they were ready, and they were positive experiences for them. I did not threaten to turn them--I took what they shared with me as something told to me in confidence, and I keep confidences. I don't know of anyone who was turned in by another student while I was there.
toon Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 My point was rather simple: since BYU is a church school, mormon parents would not be expecting to have their kids go to a place that did not have an honor code. It is only natural. I am sure that the same is true for most bible colleges too. Or even Notre Dame. http://honorcode.nd.edu/the-honor-code/ This is not just a mormon thing going on. It has more to do with reputation and church sponsorship. My daughter goes to a liberal arts college not affiliate with any religion, and I worry about things that I wouldn't have to worry (as much) about had she chosen BYU. On one hand, I see college, for at least the first two years, as a very precarious time on one's life. While the students technically are adults, many are still stupid kids that haven't developed an identity and are easily influenced. But on the other hand, lots of well adjusted adults have made it through this secular college experience, so it can be all that hazardous.
thesometimesaint Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 My daughter goes to a liberal arts college not affiliate with any religion, and I worry about things that I wouldn't have to worry (as much) about had she chosen BYU. On one hand, I see college, for at least the first two years, as a very precarious time on one's life. While the students technically are adults, many are still stupid kids that haven't developed an identity and are easily influenced. But on the other hand, lots of well adjusted adults have made it through this secular college experience, so it can be all that hazardous. You can find anything you want at BYU. The best we can do as parents is to help our children to understand that.
Tacenda Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 My daughter goes to a liberal arts college not affiliate with any religion, and I worry about things that I wouldn't have to worry (as much) about had she chosen BYU. On one hand, I see college, for at least the first two years, as a very precarious time on one's life. While the students technically are adults, many are still stupid kids that haven't developed an identity and are easily influenced. But on the other hand, lots of well adjusted adults have made it through this secular college experience, so it can be all that hazardous.I don't know, for awhile BYU has been a scary place.... http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865599181/Man-arrested-in-BYU-sexual-assault-but-groper-still-at-large.html?pg=all
Calm Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I don't know, for awhile BYU has been a scary place.... http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865599181/Man-arrested-in-BYU-sexual-assault-but-groper-still-at-large.html?pg=allUnfortunately the reputation of BYU and Utah Valley actually attracts predators who see the "purity" as a plus or so I was told when my BYU boss's little girl was kidnapped from UV and held for six weeks by someone from the LA area down in LA.
Gray Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Let he who is without sin report the first honor code violation 2
thatjimguy Posted April 1, 2014 Author Posted April 1, 2014 61 replies and not one reply about an actual case of this happening and it's result?
Calm Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 Given the number of students compared to the number of posters on the board, there is IMO a low probability of anyone being personally involved in such an action so any report would be at best secondhand and much more likely based on rumour alone.
thatjimguy Posted April 2, 2014 Author Posted April 2, 2014 True, but that would be just for that one incident. That one could be true or untrue. However, there is a saying. "If someone calls you a horse, you probably are not a horse. I three people say you are a horse, you might not be a horse. If twenty people call you a horse, you probably are a horse." Plus, I cannot belive that this would be all that rare.
VideoGameJunkie Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 I know that BYU basketball player Jeffrey Davies got kicked off the basketball team after being turned in for having sex with his girlfriend. He got to stay in school and rejoined the basketball team a year later.
thatjimguy Posted April 2, 2014 Author Posted April 2, 2014 Yeah, I heard that one. That was very high profile too. It hit ESPN. He wasn't a member from what I recall.
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