Stone holm Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 A firm that was in the news a lot during the run up to the 2012 election was Bain Capital. The Church felt the need, especially under Pres. Hinckley, to enter the political forum regarding "issues of morality", so at what point does the Church have a duty to enter the public realm regarding morality regarding business? For example, Bain Capital is now reportedly buying up Methadone clinics in the East. Are there any "issues of morality" regarding operation of private businesses, or businesses dealing with substitute addictives? Or is business irrelevant to morality, just being business?
The Nehor Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 Morality is irrelevant when there is profit to be made. You can find that counsel in Laman's appendix to the 116 lost pages. 1
stemelbow Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) Look to the inner-workings of the business that is the Church--corporation of the pres. On second thought, don't try that. Edited March 26, 2014 by stemelbow 1
Storm Rider Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 Businesses are not mindless entities capable of independent thought and/or action. People manage, run, and direct businesses and therefore businesses are a reflection of the morals of those individuals. I do not believe in managing businesses as if they were mindless entities with the sole objective of profits. That is not a definition of business that I support or endorse.
thesometimesaint Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 A firm that was in the news a lot during the run up to the 2012 election was Bain Capital. The Church felt the need, especially under Pres. Hinckley, to enter the political forum regarding "issues of morality", so at what point does the Church have a duty to enter the public realm regarding morality regarding business? For example, Bain Capital is now reportedly buying up Methadone clinics in the East. Are there any "issues of morality" regarding operation of private businesses, or businesses dealing with substitute addictives? Or is business irrelevant to morality, just being business? Businesses have a fiduciary responsibility to their owners. They also have a legal responsibility to operate within the law. We personally may like or dislike a particular business or its practices. However as long as they meet their fiduciary and legal responsibilities there isn't much we can do except to not buy what it is they are selling, and tell all our friends. 1
stemelbow Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 Businesses have a fiduciary responsibility to their owners. They also have a legal responsibility to operate within the law. We personally may like or dislike a particular business or its practices. However as long as they meet their fiduciary and legal responsibilities there isn't much we can do except to not buy what it is they are selling, and tell all our friends. Oops. And now we have a great explanation of why the Church is so small and insignificant in the world. One of these days, we'll explode--probably about the time what we're selling becomes useful/helpful to people.
thesometimesaint Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 Oops. And now we have a great explanation of why the Church is so small and insignificant in the world. One of these days, we'll explode--probably about the time what we're selling becomes useful/helpful to people. It doesn't take much salt to give flavor to the whole bowl of pasta. I don't have much expectation that the Church will be big and significant before Christs return and probably a good whiles after that.
Mystery Meat Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 Is it moral to turn a profit? How much is too much? Or is there such a thing?
thatjimguy Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 Is it moral to turn a profit? How much is too much? Or is there such a thing? This is an easy question to answer when you use the spirit. Also Jesus said something about a rich guy, heaven, and the eye of a needle somewhere. Also, Jesus' standard of tithing is to give everything. And if LDS were ever to try the United Order again, that might not be as much of an issue.
The Nehor Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 Is it moral to turn a profit? How much is too much? Or is there such a thing? It can be moral to profit. Of course in the perfect society everyone always profits. 1
Mystery Meat Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 This is an easy question to answer when you use the spirit. Also Jesus said something about a rich guy, heaven, and the eye of a needle somewhere. Also, Jesus' standard of tithing is to give everything. And if LDS were ever to try the United Order again, that might not be as much of an issue. K good. One day I plan on flying around in a 747 business jet (I am not joking). I just wanted to get all of your approval.
thesometimesaint Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 It can be moral to profit. Of course in the perfect society everyone always profits. Only if they use prophets.
thatjimguy Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 K good. One day I plan on flying around in a 747 business jet (I am not joking). I just wanted to get all of your approval. Use God's approval, not mine! Like I said, use the spirit.
The Nehor Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 K good. One day I plan on flying around in a 747 business jet (I am not joking). I just wanted to get all of your approval. I disapprove. Why would you need such a big plane? Are you hauling a legion of staffers with you? Only if they use prophets. Only if they all are prophets.
Kenngo1969 Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) I disapprove. Why would you need such a big plane? Are you hauling a legion of staffers with you? ... Only if they all are prophets. I'm available lvjd66. Can I be amongst your legion of staffers? (Please PM me so I know where to send my resume. Thanks in advance! ) P.S.: Come to think of it, does Air Force One qualify as a "business jet"? Edited March 27, 2014 by Kenngo1969
Kenngo1969 Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Is it moral to turn a profit? How much is too much? Or is there such a thing? Jacob 2: 18 But before ye seek for riches, seek ye for the kingdom of God. 19 And after ye have obtained a hope in Christ ye shall obtain riches, if ye seek them; and ye will seek them for the intent to ado good—to clothe the naked, and to feed the hungry, and to liberate the captive, and administer relief to the sick and the afflicted. 1
mormonnewb Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 I'm not so sure that the Church has anything to say about Bain Capital's business practices as I don't think that all of their equity holders are Mormons. Of course, if they are perpetrating some evil in the world, then the Church could denounce it (just as anyone else could and should). But for me this raises a question that I've been dying to ask: Can church members profit from activity that the church prohibits for its members? The most obvious question is whether church members can own liquor stores or smoke shops? What about a Starbucks? If so, can they own and operate a strip club or a legal brothel in Nevada? If not, what makes okay to traffic in tobacco but not in lust? 1
AndyDnom Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 It doesn't take much salt to give flavor to the whole bowl of pasta. I don't have much expectation that the Church will be big and significant before Christs return and probably a good whiles after that. but if it was big, you'd be saying that is proof of the truthfulness. Only because the church has failed to cover the whole earth as prophesied, are people now taking comfort in saying "the church was never meant to be that big, it was always supposed to be about a few choice elect spirits. "
Stone holm Posted March 27, 2014 Author Posted March 27, 2014 I'm not so sure that the Church has anything to say about Bain Capital's business practices as I don't think that all of their equity holders are Mormons. Of course, if they are perpetrating some evil in the world, then the Church could denounce it (just as anyone else could and should). But for me this raises a question that I've been dying to ask: Can church members profit from activity that the church prohibits for its members? The most obvious question is whether church members can own liquor stores or smoke shops? What about a Starbucks? If so, can they own and operate a strip club or a legal brothel in Nevada? If not, what makes okay to traffic in tobacco but not in lust?Well depends if they pay for a stadium or student union at BYU, i think 1
Coreyb Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 In my latest class a graduating honors student in business management wrote this—the assignment was to compare oneself with some character in the Pearl of Great Price, and he quite seriously chose Cain:Many times I wonder if many of my desires are too self-centered. Cain was after personal gain. He knew the impact of his decision to kill Abel. Now, I do not ignore God and make murderous pacts with Satan; however, I desire to get gain. Unfortunately, my desire to succeed in business is not necessarily to help the Lord’s kingdom grow [a refreshing bit of honesty]. Maybe I am pessimistic, but I feel that few businessmen have actually dedicated themselves to the furthering of the church without first desiring personal gratification. As a business major, I wonder about the ethics of business—“charge as much as possible for a product which was made by someone else who was paid as little as possible. You live on the difference.” As a businessman will I be living on someone’s industry and not my own? Will I be contributing to society, or will I receive something for nothing, as did Cain? While being honest, these are difficult questions for me. ~Hugh Nibley 1
thesometimesaint Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 but if it was big, you'd be saying that is proof of the truthfulness. Only because the church has failed to cover the whole earth as prophesied, are people now taking comfort in saying "the church was never meant to be that big, it was always supposed to be about a few choice elect spirits. " I don't do Ad Populum arguments. Actually the Church does cover the whole earth. We have members in virtually every country on the earth. So that prophesy has been fulfilled, What we're working to be fulfilled is for everyone to hear the Restored Gospel. BTW It was Nephi that saw our times and remarked at how few members there were.
Mystery Meat Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 What if I let byu football team use the jet for roadies?
rodheadlee Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Oops. And now we have a great explanation of why the Church is so small and insignificant in the world. One of these days, we'll explode--probably about the time what we're selling becomes useful/helpful to people. Judgment Day?
Stone holm Posted March 27, 2014 Author Posted March 27, 2014 In my latest class a graduating honors student in business management wrote this—the assignment was to compare oneself with some character in the Pearl of Great Price, and he quite seriously chose Cain:Many times I wonder if many of my desires are too self-centered. Cain was after personal gain. He knew the impact of his decision to kill Abel. Now, I do not ignore God and make murderous pacts with Satan; however, I desire to get gain. Unfortunately, my desire to succeed in business is not necessarily to help the Lord’s kingdom grow [a refreshing bit of honesty]. Maybe I am pessimistic, but I feel that few businessmen have actually dedicated themselves to the furthering of the church without first desiring personal gratification. As a business major, I wonder about the ethics of business—“charge as much as possible for a product which was made by someone else who was paid as little as possible. You live on the difference.” As a businessman will I be living on someone’s industry and not my own? Will I be contributing to society, or will I receive something for nothing, as did Cain? While being honest, these are difficult questions for me. ~Hugh NibleyYeah, well we tend not to go with that, instead we follow the same insight as was displayed in the song, "If I were a rich man." In Fiddler on the Roof. I once attended a lecture by Milton Friedman at the BAI school of banking where he related the idea of repeating to your children the following mantra, "Buy cheap, sell dear." You don't hear much about the "laborer being paid for his labor" or " not muzzling the ox" , nor "not planting fence row to fence row" anymore. But we do praise free market theory like a fifth Gospel, not exactly sure where you find that in the Gospel, but am sure it must be there somewhere right next to St. Ayn Rand.
Coreyb Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Yeah, well we tend not to go with that, instead we follow the same insight as was displayed in the song, "If I were a rich man." In Fiddler on the Roof. I once attended a lecture by Milton Friedman at the BAI school of banking where he related the idea of repeating to your children the following mantra, "Buy cheap, sell dear." You don't hear much about the "laborer being paid for his labor" or " not muzzling the ox" , nor "not planting fence row to fence row" anymore. But we do praise free market theory like a fifth Gospel, not exactly sure where you find that in the Gospel, but am sure it must be there somewhere right next to St. Ayn Rand.Agreed. As beautiful a thing as financial security is, Jesus must have missed the memo when he gave the consider the lilies sermon, or the treasures in heaven sermon, or the lose your life to save it sermon, or the sell all you own and give to the poor and follow me sermon, or...
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