Does The Woman In A Temple Marriage Go Where The Man Goes After Judgement?

[JLHPROF]

There are scriptures to back up all of which I stated. Salvation refers to being saved in the kingdom of heaven. All of the saved will be saved into the Celestial Kingdom (see Revelations). Christ does present the entire kingdom to the Father as "spotless" at the end of the millennium. This means that they all are washed clean through accepting Christ and repenting from all sins and being baptized. There is no other way to be saved from hell outside of this simple criteria.

 

Those who have been resurrected to this point have been resurrected with a telestial glory. When Christ comes they will be quickened into a terrestrial body and then finally at the end of the millennium they will be quickened into a celestial body.

 

I'm sorry.  I just don't find this to be scriptural at all.   I don't see that the last 3 chapters of Revelation support your position, and I find your position to disagree with D&C 76 and the established prophetic teachings.  But of course you have every right to your own doctrinal beliefs.

[thatjimguy]

My mom is a very devout TBM. If she were to be judged today she would go to exhaltation, no doubt.

 

My dad however is a jack mormon who hasn't been to church or paid tithing since 2006. If he were judged my guess would be that he would go to the Terrestrial Kingdom.

 

It is my understanding that where the man goes, the woman goes with him if they've been sealed. Which my parents have. They were sealed in the temple in 1985 and my dad served a mission in Fresno, CA from 1978-1980. So if my dad goes to the Terrestrial Kingdom, doesn't that mean my mom goes with him, even though she has lived a completely righteous life?

 

This is a true, honest question I have, no ill intentions.

 

The mistake here is assuming that different kingdoms of glory are different physical places. This is not the case.

 

They are kingdoms of glory.  A state of the good you have done.

 

Here is an example in this world of what I mean. (and a true story to boot!);

 

My buddy and I both joined the Navy practically at the same time. We made that choice to go through that process.

 

I was a terrible sailor. I wasn't evil, but I was irresponsible, didn't pay attention, never got work done, etc. I had a list of disaplinary problems. 

 

My friend, however, did great. He went through nuke school, was a Petty Officer before long and ended up staying in for 8 years.

 

In the end, we both chose to join the navy. He has the glory of having been a great sailor and was promoted and all that.

 

I, however, receved much less glory, and the only thing I ever got was a mop in my hand and a boot in the butt on the way out. 

 

We have different degrees of glory, but yet I can go over to his house and he can come to mine. We are not seperated by physical limitations. 

 

So where does this idea come from?

 

Primary!

 

When I was investigating, I was looking up everything about the church and seen a picture describing the three kingdoms. The Celestial Kingdom looked like the Elven forest from Lord of the Rings. The Terestial Kingdom looked like people lived in 1920' America. And finally, the Telestial Kingdom looked like people lived in log cabins.

 

It was because of this that I think people get the idea of the glories being physical places.

 

Hope that helps!

[Rob Osborn]

I'm sorry.  I just don't find this to be scriptural at all.   I don't see that the last 3 chapters of Revelation support your position, and I find your position to disagree with D&C 76 and the established prophetic teachings.  But of course you have every right to your own doctrinal beliefs.

Thanks. I am wondering why though you do not consider the last three chapters of Revelations as supporting what I have stated?

[JLHPROF]

The mistake here is assuming that different kingdoms of glory are different physical places. This is not the case.

 

They are kingdoms of glory.  A state of the good you have done.

 

It was because of this that I think people get the idea of the glories being physical places.

 

Hope that helps!

 

How do you explain D&C 76:112 then, when it says that WHERE the Celestial people go the Terrestrial people cannot come?  Or verse 21 that establishes that the Terrestrial is a "world" not a body.   Or D&C 88:37 which tells us that the Kingdoms are spaces.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

My mom is a very devout TBM. If she were to be judged today she would go to exhaltation, no doubt.

 

My dad however is a jack mormon who hasn't been to church or paid tithing since 2006. If he were judged my guess would be that he would go to the Terrestrial Kingdom.

 

It is my understanding that where the man goes, the woman goes with him if they've been sealed. Which my parents have. They were sealed in the temple in 1985 and my dad served a mission in Fresno, CA from 1978-1980. So if my dad goes to the Terrestrial Kingdom, doesn't that mean my mom goes with him, even though she has lived a completely righteous life?

 

This is a true, honest question I have, no ill intentions.

She will go where her faith takes her, she has made proper choices. From what you said in your little time here is that you nor you father are ever going back to Church. Are you prepared to brink yet again? She deserves better, and so do you.

[thatjimguy]

How do you explain D&C 76:112 then, when it says that WHERE the Celestial people go the Terrestrial people cannot come?  Or verse 21 that establishes that the Terrestrial is a "world" not a body.   Or D&C 88:37 which tells us that the Kingdoms are spaces.

 

D&C 76:112 

 

And they shall be ^aservants of the Most High; but ^bwhere God and Christ ^cdwell they ^dcannot come, ^eworlds without end.

 

And I will never have the glory that my buddy did. I can repent and become just as responsible (I like to think I have), but during that time, during that test, he did better than I did and that will never change.

 

 

D&C 88:37

 

And there are many ^akingdoms; for there is no ^bspace in the which there is no ^ckingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom.

 

There are no gaps in glory is what that means to me. Everyone gets a kingdom that took the test. Everyone is judged.

 

 

 

On verse 21 that you are talking about, is that in chapter 76, because I am not gettig you on that one.

Edited March 19, 2014 by thatjimguy

[Rob Osborn]

How do you explain D&C 76:112 then, when it says that WHERE the Celestial people go the Terrestrial people cannot come?  Or verse 21 that establishes that the Terrestrial is a "world" not a body.   Or D&C 88:37 which tells us that the Kingdoms are spaces.

All good questions. If I may have a go at em.

D&C 76:112-

112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.

In the temple we are told that this earth is the telestial kingdom. Certainly, we cannot go where God and Christ dwell. And where do they dwell? On worlds without end. Thats one interpretation. Ambiguos here is the term "worlds without end". Is this a time reference or a place reference? I am inclined to believe it is a place reference as it is referring to the many creations and residences of God. With this in mind we truly are "servants" of the Most High and Christ nor the Father dwell here physically on this planet at this point.

D&C 76:71-

71 And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament.

This is the only instance in scripture that mentions this term. Only one other place officially carries this exact wording in our doctrine and that is in the temple endowment ceremony where the Father sends his messengers down to the "terrestrial world" to check on man and give him further instruction preparatory to entering into the celestial kingdom. Personally I think Joseph Smith saw in vision the different stages of this earth from its telestial kingdom, to its terrestrial kingdom and then to its celestial kingdom stage. Why do I think this? Look at this key verse regarding some of the terrestrial heirs-

72 Behold, these are they who died without law

Who are those who died without law? They are the only ones who thus cannot be judged by law and thus are not in a state of judgment. This means literally they committed no sin as only those who live and die with sin also die with law and are also thus judged by law. This then literally means that they are not in spirit prison and are fully redeemed at death and brought back t paradise. This includes little children who die without law and also handicapped people who die without law. So why are they heirs to the terrestrial? Once again, if we take the terrestrial kingdom to mean that state of the earth during the millennium then it makes perfect sense that these are given the opportunity in a more perfect state- or should I say- ina state where they can live within law and be judged within law thus not taking away any agency for them to choose on their own the plan of salvation and be saved in the manner God has commanded all men to be saved.

D&C 88:37-

37 And there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom.

This earth is the telestial kingdom soon to pass away and be quickened into the terrestrial kingdom.

[Truth 101]

Can you honestly not think of any scenario where one gender can preside in an organization and yet that organization can still be fair to both genders?  You seem to be very black and white in your thinking on this-Patriarchal must be harmful to women.

 

Maybe your mother understands something about the church that you don't.  

 

So men are just better than women then, cause that's what you kind of just implied.

 

I'm willing to bet almost anything there are a lot of mormon women out there who would like to see church leadership split between the two genders. The church is all about creation right? Well last time I checked you need a male and female to procreate. If there's a heavenly father there must be a heavenly mother. Why don't women get keys, leadership positions and separate priesthood powers through her?

[Truth 101]

Except for the "whateveritis" bit, you sound a little like Joseph Smith there...he taught that when we get to where God is that God moves onto a higher exaltation (and again, unlike McConkie, I think that entails more than an increase in dominion).

 

I just believe in transcendence is all. If that's something me and old Joe Smith had in common, whatever.

[Truth 101]

She will go where her faith takes her, she has made proper choices. From what you said in your little time here is that you nor you father are ever going back to Church. Are you prepared to brink yet again? She deserves better, and so do you.

 

I'm sure my dad would eventually go back. He still wears his temple garments and considers himself mormon. As for me, no, I will never go back. As much as I love my mother I'm not going to falsely believe in a faith for her happiness. Besides, she doesn't care anyway, she's told me that my two brothers and I, as well as my dad, have our free agency to do whatever we want.

[Truth 101]

You don't have kids.  They are never there for you, don't ever have your back in times of need.

 

They are bundles of need and give nothing in return, except cuteness because they have big eyes and we are programmed to find that "cute".

 

I suggest you need another model of who you love most before you are a dad.

 

Oh I assure you buddy, there are a lot of things I need to get figured out before I become a dad.

[JLHPROF]

I just believe in transcendence is all. If that's something me and old Joe Smith had in common, whatever.

 

Careful - the board rules prohibit referring to Joseph as Joe...you might incur some wrath.

[jana at jade house]

 

 

 Besides, she doesn't care anyway, she's told me that my two brothers and I, as well as my dad, have our free agency to do whatever we want.

 Oh, young man, you can be assured she cares very very very much.  That she is allowing you to use your agency to trash her hearts desires is an example of just how much she loves you and cares about you.   Just because she does not get on her high horse, or judge you, or make snarky comments doesn't mean she does not want you to find the Light again, regain your testimony and all become a forever family. Trust me, I know this.

[bluebell]

So men are just better than women then, cause that's what you kind of just implied.

I didn't imply any such thing.

A patriarchal society, in and of itself, does not imply that men are better. If that is automatically how you define such an organization, then you'll probably need to work on trying to be more open to different understands than you currently have.

You seem to have assumptions about how things have to be, that aren't based on anything other than your opinion of how they have to be. This will make it hard for you to really understand the teachings of the church.

 

I'm willing to bet almost anything there are a lot of mormon women out there who would like to see church leadership split between the two genders. The church is all about creation right? Well last time I checked you need a male and female to procreate. If there's a heavenly father there must be a heavenly mother. Why don't women get keys, leadership positions and separate priesthood powers through her?

First, WHY are you willing to bet that a lot of mormon women want to see the church leadership split? Do you have any evidence at all to support such an idea?

I've been a member for about 25 years or so, have lived in and attended church in 5 different states, and i can sincerely tell you that this is something I've never heard myself. It would be interesting to know how you know this, when I, as someone who has had so much more experience with mormon women than you have, have never heard it even mentioned.

Second, we don't know why women aren't ordained to the priesthood, but we do have access to it and use it.  We don't need separate priesthood powers.  There is only one God and only one priesthood-His.

 

[CMZ]

PS - it doesn't matter if it's the man without the woman, or the woman without the man - or the parent without their children, or child without their parent - no one is in charge, everyone relies equally on one another being there together.

 

True. It needs to be heavily emphasized that there's nothing going on about "who gets to boss who around in the eternities." Anybody that has a tendency to be authoritarian simply will not be exalted. It's not in the character of a glorified, celestialized being to be that way. The whole thing about "men running the church" is partly an exaggeration and partly people not seeing that it is men that are being called to be the servants of everyone else, to lovingly see that everyone achieves exaltation. It's not about women not being given the privilege to boss others around. As President Monson has said, the priesthood is the robe of responsibility, not the cloak of comfort. The fact that the majority of members (men and women) don't get this has caused all sorts of misunderstandings in the Church: "The priesthood is the right to boss other people around. So why is God afraid of giving women that right? Is he saying that women aren't capable or worthy of bossing men around?"

Edited March 20, 2014 by CMZ