MiserereNobis Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 Ora pro nobis, sancta Dei Genetrix R. Ut digni efficiamur promissionibus christi. Amen.
mfbukowski Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 He's sitting on the right hand of the Father (note: Jesus resurrected pre-Ascension is different than post-Ascension)Ah I figured there must be an explanation. References?
Ahab Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 The whole point is it doesn't even remotely imply that God is restricted to "this" universe.It repeats "There is NO END to ____" again and again. The clear implication is that God is NOT restricted by paltry little universes like ours.It says that if we could get to Kolob in"the twinkling of an eye" it would still take eternities to get to where God's powers end, and even then we would not get there.In no way does that imply that God's power is restricted in any way!!For the benefit of those unfamiliar with the hymn:Does that sound like we restrict God to earth alone as the critics would have you believe?"Kolob" is believed to be a physical location for "heaven".Don't laugh.If Christ has a body, where is he?He is in the one place where all other places exist, and that one place is referred to as the universe.
jchristopher Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 Yep. Then I disagreed and showed you why I thought differently. Creation is clearly dependent on gravity. It's the thing that holds mater together.Is not matter in its most disorganized state not bound together? Secondly, could not matter be bound together by a creator and then stay bound together without gravity?
Stone holm Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 Is not matter in its most disorganized state not bound together? Secondly, could not matter be bound together by a creator and then stay bound together without gravity? Not sure this is what is meant by matter unorganized.
Ahab Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 Is not matter in its most disorganized state not bound together?Do you know what a quark looks like? That's what I think of when I think about the most basic form of matter, and I don't think they are all necessarily bound together, even though they can be.Secondly, could not matter be bound together by a creator and then stay bound together without gravity?Like in an atom, maybe? Do you think gravity is what holds all atoms together?
jchristopher Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 The disintegration of the family unit, is merely a symptom of the disintegration of community cohesiveness, which in turn is just a symptom of an economic system which places no value on community or family, which in turn is a symptom of religions which no longer are advocating effective community action, but are concentrating solely on individual atomistic perfection, sexual purity, and individual material success as a measure of righteousness, and ignoring what the economic system may actually be doing to families and community. Something like covering three holes in a collander and expecting it to still carry water.The disintegration of the family unit in any civilization is result of individuals breaking covenants. After the martyrdom of the Lord's prophets, there is nothing stopping the complete unraveling of the moral code in that society.
jchristopher Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 I don't want to get into it with you.That is a sectarian position derived from Neoplatonism and is not a Restoration concept. Good and evil do not exist independent of behaviors. To believe so is to believe in pagan Greek philosophy derived from Plato.That idea is totally non-biblical.But as I said I don't want to get into it with you. Study some Plato, I would suggest, and you will see that he agrees with you. Unfortunately Plato was not LDS.Plato saw God as an unchanging Form of Goodness.That is not the God we worship, we worship our Heavenly Father who is a being much like us in many ways, but is infinitely above us in wisdom, love etc. He is not an unchanging vague principle floating nowhere in the universe.Okay, maybe we are not understanding each other. Would you concisely explain how morality is evolving? I understand morality to be directly connected with the gospel of Jesus Christ, otherwise known as God's eternal plan. Sorry, I'm an ADDer and prefer to focus on one thing at a time.
jchristopher Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 The whole point is it doesn't even remotely imply that God is restricted to "this" universe.It repeats "There is NO END to ____" again and again. The clear implication is that God is NOT restricted by paltry little universes like ours.It says that if we could get to Kolob in"the twinkling of an eye" it would still take eternities to get to where God's powers end, and even then we would not get there.In no way does that imply that God's power is restricted in any way!!For the benefit of those unfamiliar with the hymn:Does that sound like we restrict God to earth alone as the critics would have you believe?"Kolob" is believed to be a physical location for "heaven".Don't laugh.If Christ has a body, where is he? Can Catholics tell me where Christ is, since he has a body? You refer to our universe as "small." I wasn't aware that we knew how big or small our universe is. Though I have no reason to believe God is restricted
jchristopher Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 Many here define morality as a noun. I see it as a verb.It is not a thing or a place, it is a mode of travel. I have watched people in Chilé, the US, Egypt, Sicily, Germany, Thailand and many other countries, display their devotion to their god or gods. I saw a widow, in Sicily, weep as the statue of the Virgin Mary passed in a procession. I saw a shop owner, in Cairo, close his shop and get out his prayer mat in answer to the call for prayer from the minaret. I saw a stall attendent clasp her hands together before a small shrine, in Bangkok, at the close of her working day. Most have no idea what the Mormon definition of morality is but they take their supplications to their dieties in humble attempts to be heard.If there is one definition of morality, I have yet to see it. I think there are many paths. Quibling over which one is best is probably a waste of time.First of all, I would like you to explain to me how morality is a verb. How do you "do" morality?Second of all, every person that has ever walked the earth must meet the requirements of the gospel of Jesus Christ to enter into heaven. There is no other way. However, this does not prevent good people from entering heaven. God is a righteous judge and will judge people according to The intent of their hearts. This is also why he has commenced the work of the dead. But to say there are many ways or paths back to heaven is wrong. "Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely: And they shall be my people, and I will be their God: And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them: And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.(Jeremiah 32:37-40)
jchristopher Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 Not sure this is what is meant by matter unorganized.Matter that has not been organized together into something
jchristopher Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 Do you know what a quark looks like? That's what I think of when I think about the most basic form of matter, and I don't think they are all necessarily bound together, even though they can be.Like in an atom, maybe? Do you think gravity is what holds all atoms together?Okay. Strong force, weak force, electromagnetism, and gravity. It sounds like gravity is required for atoms to bond together. I stand corrected.
Stone holm Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 The disintegration of the family unit in any civilization is result of individuals breaking covenants. After the martyrdom of the Lord's prophets, there is nothing stopping the complete unraveling of the moral code in that society.Breaking marriage covenants is nothing particularly new. The increasing lack of economic relevance of the family is, however, new.
mfbukowski Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 You refer to our universe as "small." I wasn't aware that we knew how big or small our universe is. Though I have no reason to believe God is restrictedhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse
Bikeemikey Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 Is not matter in its most disorganized state not bound together? Secondly, could not matter be bound together by a creator and then stay bound together without gravity?It appears that matter in any state, bound unbound has gravity. As for what god can do, I don't know. I guess he could have use glue. Like the Lego movie; the "KRAGLUE"!That said I'm inclined to think gravity is a law of matter and this pre-existence to god. God obeys it, he didn't make it.
bcuzbcuz Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 First of all, I would like you to explain to me how morality is a verb. How do you "do" morality?Second of all, every person that has ever walked the earth must meet the requirements of the gospel of Jesus Christ to enter into heaven. There is no other way. However, this does not prevent good people from entering heaven. God is a righteous judge and will judge people according to The intent of their hearts. This is also why he has commenced the work of the dead. But to say there are many ways or paths back to heaven is wrong. "Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely: And they shall be my people, and I will be their God: And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them: And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.(Jeremiah 32:37-40)The "doing" of morality is exactly the point. Without the doing there is no morality.
krampus Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 that has hot to be the most silly question in existance. Why dont you just ask if the sky is blue?
bcuzbcuz Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 that has hot to be the most silly question in existance. Why dont you just ask if the sky is blue?OK, I'll bite. Is the sky blue?
bcuzbcuz Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 First of all, I would like you to explain to me how morality is a verb. How do you "do" morality?Second of all, every person that has ever walked the earth must meet the requirements of the gospel of Jesus Christ to enter into heaven. There is no other way. However, this does not prevent good people from entering heaven. God is a righteous judge and will judge people according to The intent of their hearts. This is also why he has commenced the work of the dead. But to say there are many ways or paths back to heaven is wrong. "Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely: And they shall be my people, and I will be their God: And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them: And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.(Jeremiah 32:37-40)Second, to my comment above. DOing right is considered moral living. Doing wrong is considered immoral. Morality is a verb because it goes beyond the step of merely doing no wrong. If I'm asleep or dead, i'm doing no wrong, am I therefore moral while doing nothing? Cultural norms establish moral codes. And society can be formed without any defining God or belief in God, certainly without the Judeo-Christian concept of God.This may be hard for us of European extract, most definitely for those who speak English, because in English we define things, places, persons. We label and categorize. Our understanding of languages based on different value systems are poorly understood, because of our language bias. Many languages have, as opposed to English, gender identities to almost all things. They're masculine, feminine or neuter. How would you classify morality: masc? fem? or neuter?But since morality requires action to make it exist, it is therefore a verb.The Carrier-Sekane people (Dené language group, northwest Canada) have many words for "things" defined as verbs. A lightswitch is a verb. It references to what the lightswitch does, related back to earlier language of making fire, making light. A lightswitch is the maker of light. In English we call a lightswitch still a lightswitch when the lights aren't on. But in the Dené it is different, a light switch basically doesn''t exist or is not referenced to, when it isn't doing its job.Back to what I said earlier. Is a person moral if they aren't doing anything? If your answer is yes, I would ask for some back-up information or explanation. 1
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