Since The (J) Source Is Older Than Deut. 32, Why Does It Conflate Yahweh And Elyon?

[Hamilton Porter]

Gen. 11 has Yahweh dividing the nations. And the Table of Nations in Gen 11 is the interpretive background for Deut 32 (70 nations // 70 sons of Canaanite god El).

 

Gen. 14 has LORD Most High

 

Both are written by the (J) source.

 

This means that Yahweh = Elyon in Deut. 32:8-9.

 

And here are the dates for authorship:

 

(J) 10th century

http://biologos.org/uploads/resources/enns_scholarly_essay3.pdf

 

Deut 32 8th century

 

Why the conflation?

 

[phaedrus ut]

Source criticism of the Pentateuch is far outside my strike zone to take a swing at but I did recall Daniel McClellen talking specifically about these verses years ago.  Here is the previous topic 

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/47951-establishing-the-best-reading-of-deut-328-9/

 

If you're lucky either Daniel or David B. will join in this thread.

 

 

Phaedrus

Edited November 13, 2013 by phaedrus ut

[Nevo]

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Edited October 1, 2014 by Nevo

[Hamilton Porter]

Source criticism of the Pentateuch is far outside my strike zone to take a swing at but I did recall Daniel McClellen talking specifically about these verses years ago.  Here is the previous topic 

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/47951-establishing-the-best-reading-of-deut-328-9/

 

If you're lucky either Daniel or David B. will join in this thread.

 

 

Phaedrus

 

It's painful reading that Oxford vs. Podunk thread.

[Hamilton Porter]

I'm no expert, but I don't think most source critics assign Genesis 14 to J. I think it is generally understood to be a later insertion.

 

do you have a source? HarperCollins asserts it's a (J) piece.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Hamilton Porter

[maklelan]

Gen. 11 has Yahweh dividing the nations. And the Table of Nations in Gen 11 is the interpretive background for Deut 32 (70 nations // 70 sons of Canaanite god El).

 

Gen. 14 has LORD Most High

 

Both are written by the (J) source.

 

This means that Yahweh = Elyon in Deut. 32:8-9.

 

And here are the dates for authorship:

 

(J) 10th century

http://biologos.org/uploads/resources/enns_scholarly_essay3.pdf

 

Deut 32 8th century

 

Why the conflation?

 

The "YHWH" in YHWH Elyon in Gen 14:22 is a late interpolation. It does not appear in the Greek, the Syriac, or Qumran's Genesis Apocryphon. Additionally, the J source is falling out of favor in a lot of contemporary Pentateuchal criticism. Joel Baden and others are fighting against it (here), but see here for a recent example of concerns with it. For one of the most careful and informed recent discussions of the composition of the Pentateuch, in my opinion, see here.

 

The conflation of YHWH and El predates the final form of Deuteronomy 32, but vv. 8–9 represent preserved memories from the north from much earlier. This is why v. 7 says to ask the fathers for the information provided in vv. 8–9. 

[Hamilton Porter]

The "YHWH" in YHWH Elyon in Gen 14:22 is a late interpolation. It does not appear in the Greek, the Syriac, or Qumran's Genesis Apocryphon. Additionally, the J source is falling out of favor in a lot of contemporary Pentateuchal criticism. Joel Baden and others are fighting against it (here), but see here for a recent example of concerns with it. For one of the most careful and informed recent discussions of the composition of the Pentateuch, in my opinion, see here.

 

The conflation of YHWH and El predates the final form of Deuteronomy 32, but vv. 8–9 represent preserved memories from the north from much earlier. This is why v. 7 says to ask the fathers for the information provided in vv. 8–9. 

 

thanks much.