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Council Of The Gods Vs "i Am" In Ancient Hebrew Throught

mfbukowski

By mfbukowski
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EllenMaksoud Grand Master

EllenMaksoud

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This is one for the scholars here, and I am asking because I genuinely don't know the answer.

 

It seems to me there is a conflict in the Hebrew scriptures between on one hand seeing God as Jehovah- the "Great I AM"- the self-existent one beyond whom there is no other, and the idea of the Council of the Gods.

 

I know that monotheism seems to have evolved over time, but this idea of "I Am", the name of Jehovah as we hear it in the story of Moses, conflicts with seeing God as we might see him after reading about on one hand the Council of Gods, and the King Follette Discourse, where God is presented as one of a string of other similar beings.

 

So did the Hebrews see God more as the Great I Am, or as Joseph saw him in the King Follette Discourse?  Or did one idea evolve into another?  When did these changes happen, and what were the reasons for them?

 

I am sure this has been discussed before, if I have just missed the boat and everyone knows the answer but me, just a few references would be great to put me on the right path to do my own research.

I don't claim to be a scholar, but I have wondered about the WE statement in the Bible around the Tower of Babel, Genesis 11:

 

Genesis 11:1-9 (New International Version)
 
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Genesis 11:1-9

New International Version (NIV)

The Tower of Babel

11 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward,[a] they found a plain in Shinar[b] and settled there.

3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

 

I have always wondered who the "us" is. One Jewish scholar told me that in hebrew "We" is actually just a form of exhaltation and does not describe more than one person.  Hmmmm

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mfbukowski Grand Master

mfbukowski

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I don't claim to be a scholar, but I have wondered about the WE statement in the Bible around the Tower of Babel, Genesis 11:

 

Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

 

I have always wondered who the "us" is. One Jewish scholar told me that in hebrew "We" is actually just a form of exhaltation and does not describe more than one person.  Hmmmm

Yes indeed- Mormons believe that Heavenly Father delegated these matters to Jehovah, and indeed Jehovah also delegated to others- including angels- various "operational" ;) details in "managing" HF's creations, and this would be one example.

 

Another example would be when Jacob wrestles with "the Lord"- it is usually acknowledged by most Christians and definitely LDS that Jacob did not literally wrestle with Jehovah, but an angel who held authority from God to act in his name.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Wrestling_with_the_Angel

 

LDS term this sort of delegation "Divine Investiture of Authority" http://emp.byui.edu/MarrottR/DivineInvestAuth.htm

 

So indeed this verse which says "Come let us go down..." is an example of that.

 

The term "Eloheim" itself is a plural- and my understanding that the first verse of Genesis could be translated "In the beginning, the Gods created the earth."

 

But I should leave it for someone better versed in these topics to carry the ball on this one, should anyone want to respond.

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mfbukowski Grand Master

mfbukowski

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Thank you for asking. Are you familiar with Zecharia Sitchin? I am interested in Jehovah's relationship to Enki, Enlil and Marduk of Mesopotamia. As in "Luke,'I Am' your father." Is Jehovah and Yaweh the same entity?

My understanding is that Jehovah is just another transliteration of "Yaweh", so the answer would be yes.

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nmcknz Rookie

nmcknz

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'Horton Hears a Who'. Enki was a klutz but he loved us. Who is Marduk? Did he father Jesus? It seems the ancient gods are still here. I always assumed the god of Abraham and the god of Joseph Smith were the same. But they keep switching on me as I search. Why aren't we talking about mesopotamia and discernment of spirit?

 

According to Sitchen, Enki stormed out of the counsel of the gods that decided to let man perish in the flood. Enki dreamed humanity, his literal offspring, was meant to thrive. And like father Lehi, he found a material object at the door of his 'tent' confirming the dream. I don't know if sumerian records where available to Joseph Smith in the 19th century. Enki warned Noah thru the wall of 'his' tent so that he would not be breaking orders directly. Later, Enki's brother from another mother, Enlil, was enraged when he found humanity survived the deluge. He finally challenged Enki to an empty handed wrestling match. The same means by which their father, Anu, had won the throne from Allahlu on a distant planet. (An-El angels, sons of An) Enki petitioned the Elohim counsel of 12 and told them of his dream. (Elohim being plural.) Enlil's heart was softened toward the human race for a time. Sometimes I don't know if I care for either of them.. tho I love them both. Are we a threat to them? Do we have to take sides? I would rather have dialogue. Speak up. "Hey! We are here! We are here!"

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volgadon Grand Master

volgadon

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I'm not here to compete. Are you aware of any such conversations I can enquire of?

 

Never said that you were here to compete, and I'm not sure what conversations you were looking for. I'm wondering if you have ever read the sources themselves, rather than what Sitchin reads into them.

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nmcknz Rookie

nmcknz

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check me. Help me develop a table of pantheons, archetypes and aspects of the elhohim council of the gods. Who fathered Easu? Why did Joseph n Hyrum carry a jupiter talisman? 

 


  • tiamat- draconis, dragon queen, milkyway, gaia, freya, a big bang separated heaven n earth.
  • ninersahga- snake princess, hathor, rhea, ninmah, amma, sister of enlil n enki. is her lap a throne?
  • anu- saturn- cronos, odin, sky father on a distant star,
  • enlil- jupiter- fire, thunderbolt, magic, love, jove, jehovah, king of kings, abraham, dispater, the father, king of younger gods, 
  • marduk- new jupiter?
  • marduk- mars- war, metal, marduk, thor, ra, indra, mythras, helios, apollo, farming, baal, tubaal cain, metal worker, blacksmith, 
  • marduke- sun- ra, law, horus, jesus, mythra, tummuzi
  • innana- venus- merica, fertility, dove, aphrodite, ishtar, holy ghost, sophia,
  • nabu- mercury- writing, hat, enoch, nabu, hermes, hercules, ningishzida, civilization, letters, numbers,
  • moon- set, sin, seth, the nagas, typhon, 
  • lilith- artemis, diana, maiden, bow
  • adapa- adamu, michael, amen ra, ammon
  • neburu- olympia, kolob, nemisis, azgard, lumeria, atlantis, arcadians
  • ziusudra- noah, raphael, tubal cain's bil, mahonri moriacumr 
  • pan- ham- sheperds, goat legs, pipe, grandfather of nimrod summerimus tammuzi, chem, faunus, 
  • enki- neptune- water, posiden, ptah, promethius, ea, father of humanity, mazda, atlantis, king of older gods, tuatha danu, loki, darth vader, samael, aryans of japeth, nephi nephilim, the natives remember killing off the white giants in america. who is uriel? Gabriel's trumpet is being heard round the world now, is that an angel maroni phenomenon? This table is a mess. Help me straighten it out. Seems like the gods were always storing seeds. Are we illuminati?
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