EllenMaksoud Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 So sitting in Sunday School this week, one of the members quoted, "God helps those who help themselves". Well, astonishingly this Mormon gentleness must finally be rubbing off on me, so I refrained from correcting her right in class, and did not do so afterward because I do not know her. Later to my great surprise, in researching how this bit of nonsense got started, I found the book of Hezekiah. What an education I got ! http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2123751/posts
Duncan Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 What about people who are so confused they don't even know how to help themselves to better their situation?
Calm Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 The Lord also helps those who can't help themselves if they ask for help, imo.I see the scripture as merely saying that the Lord has blessed us with many talents and resources and if we refuse to use them, expecting him to do all the work, that is showing ingratitude and a lack of acceptance of what he has done for us.....so why should he do more?
webbles Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 http://justlists.wordpress.com/2008/06/13/10-well-known-scriptural-passages-from-the-book-of-hezekiah/ indicates that the Book of Hezekiah is actually a joke.
Calm Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 http://justlists.wor...ok-of-hezekiah/ indicates that the Book of Hezekiah is actually a joke.Too funny. Got me tonight.I had not thought it was a scripture before tonight, just that my dad used it a lot and I heard it at church. I assumed it was something like the cliche that has Jesus saying "I never said it would be easy, just that it would be worth it"...a cliche btw that is wrong as he did indeed say his yoke was easy.
Calm Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 The sentiment appears in ancient Greek tragedies of which only fragments now remain. In his Philoctetes (c.409 BCE),Sophocles wrote, "No good e'er comes of leisure purposeless; And heaven ne’er helps the men who will not act."[1] And in the Hippolytus (428BC) of Euripides appears the speech, "Try first thyself, and after call in God; For to the worker God himself lends aid."[2http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helps_those_who_help_themselves
tyler90az Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 So sitting in Sunday School this week, one of the members quoted, "God helps those who help themselves". Well, astonishingly this Mormon gentleness must finally be rubbing off on me, so I refrained from correcting her right in class, and did not do so afterward because I do not know her. Later to my great surprise, in researching how this bit of nonsense got started, I found the book of Hezekiah. What an education I got ! http://www.freerepub...n/2123751/postsCool, I accounted for both of us in regards to lack of gentleness this week. My teacher decided to bring up Doma and Prop 8 this week. It then became interesting... I said atleast four times I will not lose my TR over the issue. It felt like the walls were closing in, I firmly believe people think that I will lose my TR. I know one thing I ticked off many people in my ward. Good thing the lesson was on not being offended, hoped they listened. God's whole mission for me was to be in that classroom and test those people. It is too bad if they are offended, I consider them my friends, oh well, I consider any person I talk to at all my friend. Some people on this forum would be surprised that was my first issue of contention in my ward. Mostly because they are good teachers and do not drift into politics. They would then have to experience my witless wit like so many of you. Sorry by the way.Does anybody care about what I said above? No. Do I care that nobody cares? No. Why do I post it then? Good question. Do I usually talk to myself like this? No usually my wife has to deal with it.So anyways, back to the topic, I like that quote. I am just glad that is not a law, as God has helped me many times when I have not helped myself.
EllenMaksoud Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 What about people who are so confused they don't even know how to help themselves to better their situation?I heard one of the Missionaries saying that they are not on the field to change people's minds, but to find the seekers and help them.
EllenMaksoud Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 http://justlists.wor...ok-of-hezekiah/ indicates that the Book of Hezekiah is actually a joke.You got it ! And since you are the winner, you win a free trip to the place of your dreams; the Celestial Kingdom ! 1
EllenMaksoud Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 Cool, I accounted for both of us in regards to lack of gentleness this week. My teacher decided to bring up Doma and Prop 8 this week. It then became interesting... I said atleast four times I will not lose my TR over the issue. It felt like the walls were closing in, I firmly believe people think that I will lose my TR. I know one thing I ticked off many people in my ward. Good thing the lesson was on not being offended, hoped they listened. God's whole mission for me was to be in that classroom and test those people. It is too bad if they are offended, I consider them my friends, oh well, I consider any person I talk to at all my friend. Some people on this forum would be surprised that was my first issue of contention in my ward. Mostly because they are good teachers and do not drift into politics. They would then have to experience my witless wit like so many of you. Sorry by the way.Does anybody care about what I said above? No. Do I care that nobody cares? No. Why do I post it then? Good question. Do I usually talk to myself like this? No usually my wife has to deal with it.So anyways, back to the topic, I like that quote. I am just glad that is not a law, as God has helped me many times when I have not helped myself. So, you'd lose your TR why? If you are affected by DOMA and all that stuff, all you have to do to keep it is take the vow of chastity. I know of one gay guy that married a woman and has children. I suppose it depends on you, does it not?
Stargazer Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 http://justlists.wor...ok-of-hezekiah/ indicates that the Book of Hezekiah is actually a joke.Yeah, for a minute there I thought I was starting to lose what is left of my mind. "There's a book of the Old Testament called 'Hezekiah'?" I started frantically searching it for in my "sticks" but didn't find it, then felt profound relief. One thing I fear greatly is Alzheimers, and I am getting old enough for it.Whew.
webbles Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Too funny. Got me tonight.I had not thought it was a scripture before tonight, just that my dad used it a lot and I heard it at church. I assumed it was something like the cliche that has Jesus saying "I never said it would be easy, just that it would be worth it"...a cliche btw that is wrong as he did indeed say his yoke was easy.That "quote" irks my wife.
tyler90az Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 So, you'd lose your TR why? If you are affected by DOMA and all that stuff, all you have to do to keep it is take the vow of chastity. I know of one gay guy that married a woman and has children. I suppose it depends on you, does it not?Not gay, just defend what I feel is right.
Stargazer Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I don't know why that quote would irk anyone. I think it is essential that before you expect divine aid in doing something worthwhile, you must meet the project with own good will and action. If you just sit there and think idle thoughts about getting something worthwhile accomplished, how can you expect God to help you out with it? I'd say that is a false expectation.On the other hand, perhaps sometimes God does do something without you helping yourself. My eldest stepson believes to this day that God actually physically pushed him out of his bed one morning when he decided that he was going to sleep in that one time rather than get up early enough to go to early morning Seminary. He said he suddenly found himself on the floor, and that he didn't do it himself.I think it might be a little optimistic to expect such help on a regular basis, however.
EllenMaksoud Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 I don't know why that quote would irk anyone. I think it is essential that before you expect divine aid in doing something worthwhile, you must meet the project with own good will and action. If you just sit there and think idle thoughts about getting something worthwhile accomplished, how can you expect God to help you out with it? I'd say that is a false expectation.On the other hand, perhaps sometimes God does do something without you helping yourself. My eldest stepson believes to this day that God actually physically pushed him out of his bed one morning when he decided that he was going to sleep in that one time rather than get up early enough to go to early morning Seminary. He said he suddenly found himself on the floor, and that he didn't do it himself.I think it might be a little optimistic to expect such help on a regular basis, however.The quote is not in the Bible, and in my opinion, not even theologically correct. Perhaps "God helps the faithful" would work better.
Tacenda Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 So, you'd lose your TR why? If you are affected by DOMA and all that stuff, all you have to do to keep it is take the vow of chastity. I know of one gay guy that married a woman and has children. I suppose it depends on you, does it not?Maybe Tyler was worried about losing his TR if he supports Gays rights. One of the questions in the TR interview, is asking if they are affiliated with a group outside of the church. But I think this question pertains to apostates or polygamy groups.
webbles Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I don't know why that quote would irk anyone. I think it is essential that before you expect divine aid in doing something worthwhile, you must meet the project with own good will and action. If you just sit there and think idle thoughts about getting something worthwhile accomplished, how can you expect God to help you out with it? I'd say that is a false expectation.On the other hand, perhaps sometimes God does do something without you helping yourself. My eldest stepson believes to this day that God actually physically pushed him out of his bed one morning when he decided that he was going to sleep in that one time rather than get up early enough to go to early morning Seminary. He said he suddenly found himself on the floor, and that he didn't do it himself.I think it might be a little optimistic to expect such help on a regular basis, however.If you are commenting about my comment, I was talking about the quote "I never said it would be easy, just that it would be worth it". I don't have a problem with the original quote.
EllenMaksoud Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 Maybe Tyler was worried about losing his TR if he supports Gays rights. One of the questions in the TR interview, is asking if they are affiliated with a group outside of the church. But I think this question pertains to apostates or polygamy groups.You are allowed to keep your own counsel are you not? I remain unaffiliated with these groups because my feelings are in deep conflict on the matter. AND, I think that in time research will show that none of these issues is voluntary. However, I still support the GA because I believe in order and authority. The problem with getting the necessary research done is that so many other things are a higher priority, like making weapons of war, and financing spying. When discoveries are made regarding the genetics of non heterosexual behavior, it will be by accident.Perhaps the reason my TM is being held up is that I am keeping my own counsel and not repeating the company line. I have been and will obey the GA, but I insist that today's arguments are pretty lame.
Calm Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I claim two hours sleep in the last 24 as the reason my wee brain jumped from "biblical name" to "biblical book". There needs to be an embarrassed smiley.
tyler90az Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) Maybe Tyler was worried about losing his TR if he supports Gays rights. One of the questions in the TR interview, is asking if they are affiliated with a group outside of the church. But I think this question pertains to apostates or polygamy groups.It is funny you say that timmorow I have ppi with eq pres. Then wen temple rec, byu and pat blessing interviews. I will find out what happens then. I do not think I will get "denied" for any of those. Edited July 2, 2013 by tyler90az
EllenMaksoud Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 Yeah, for a minute there I thought I was starting to lose what is left of my mind. "There's a book of the Old Testament called 'Hezekiah'?" I started frantically searching it for in my "sticks" but didn't find it, then felt profound relief. One thing I fear greatly is Alzheimers, and I am getting old enough for it.Whew.
EllenMaksoud Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 I claim two hours sleep in the last 24 as the reason my wee brain jumped from "biblical name" to "biblical book". There needs to be an embarrassed smiley.
EllenMaksoud Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 Sorry, some of you have been "Had" by Khadijah I only do this on line because no one can chase me down and punish me. LOL 1
Stargazer Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) If you are commenting about my comment, I was talking about the quote "I never said it would be easy, just that it would be worth it". I don't have a problem with the original quote.No, I was commenting on "God helps those who helps themselves." I just used your word because I liked it. Edited July 2, 2013 by Stargazer
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