The Latest Anti-Mormon Deception: "Futuremissionary.Com"

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Give me an official Church website showing a picture of Smith using his hat to translate.  Or guide me to a an official Church publication, readily available to all members, showing Smith using his hat.  I have researched what the MTC tells its missionaries what to say and do during discussions.  Since 1980, it has been very structured, and the only approved statement about JS translating those golden plates has been that he used the Urrim and Thumim, and the good old Oliver Cowdery was his scribe.  I used to give those discussions, too.  The missionaries were told not to say anything else.  Since 1990, most of the young men and women who go out as missionaries have no idea that JS used the seer stone to claim he translated.  You know all of those colorful pictures of JS translating the golden plates, in the ward libraries?  You won't be able to find any pictures of him using his hat.  You know why?  It relates to folk magic.  If the Church has mentioned in an official book that JS translated out of his hat, why not display pictures of it?  They can't afford to do that..

You can look it up in the ensign as they publish GC talks. And they did bring it up fairly recently at GC. What the MTC instructs us is that JS translated the BoM by the gift and power of JS nothing more than that.  In fact most of my discussion in the field we said just that and did not get into any details. 

 

Tell me is it really harder to believe that JS used the stone in the hat method over looking into glasses that translate things? I mean they are both pretty miraculous. Later JS seems to have just received direct revelation for the BoM and neither method was used.  I think you are blowing wind here. I really thing it a non issue. I suppose they could draw a picture of what it would look like. BUt to what point? To appease you? OK.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

You people amaze me.  I produce credible history from Gerald and Sandra Tanner that has been extolled by professional historians at several universities, and you get personal and talk about Gerald's and Sandra's personalities, early life, and religious devotion.  It's just like Mormon apologists!  The facts are the facts.  Smith was arrested, tried, and convicted of fraud.  There are many more websites than the ones I provided that show the court records and the testimonies.  Joseph Smith also proclaimed false prophecies, he was an adulterer, many times over, if not a pedophile, and was very vengeful when the truth was published about him.  I hope that Thomas Monson is cited with a contempt charge by the Wetminister Magistrates Court in the UK, if he doesn't honor the summons issued against him and the Church.  The British are pretty stern about the law, and if Monson doesn't show-up to answer charges of fraud, the British government just might confiscate and attach the properties of the Mormon Church to pay the plaintiffs in a default judgment. 

Actually you produced nothing at all that is credible. You merely assert things and then get amazed that we don't just take your word for it. After all you have been to 5 temples. You must be telling the truth.

 

Tell me what was JS convicted of? What was his punishment. I expect valid sources, you know something from the court that was recorded. Not some 3rd hand account from some one that lived 80 years after the fact. I wont be holding my breath. I know you cant produce a conviction. Why? Because he was never convicted. You took Gerald and Sandra at face value.

 

Trolololol more.

 

For more fun check this one out.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[nrnowlin]

Joseph Smith was convicted and condemned, but was probably allowed to escape.  Read the following!

 

The Account of A. W. Benton in 1831

Messrs. Editors--In the sixth number of your paper, I saw a notice of a sect of people called Mormonites; and thinking that fuller history of their founder, Joseph Smith, Jr., might be interesting to community, and particularly to your correspondent in Ohio, where, perhaps, the truth concerning him may be hard to come at, I will take the trouble to make a few remarks on the character of the infamous imposter. For several years preceding the appearance of his book, he was about the country in the character of a glass-looker; pretending, by means of a certain stone, or glass, which he put in a hat, to be able to discover lost goods, hidden treasures, mines of gold and silver, etc.

Although he constantly failed in his pretensions, still he had his dupes who put implicit confidence in all his words. In this town a wealthy farmer, named Josiah Stowell, together with others, spent large sums of money in digging for hidden money which this Smith pretended he could see, and told them where to dig; but they never found their treasure. At length the public, becoming wearied with the base imposition which he was palming upon the credulity of the ignorant, for the purpose of sponging his living from their earnings, had him arrested as a disorderly person, tried and condemned before a court of justice. But, considering his youth, (he then being a minor), thinking he might reform his conduct, he was designedly allowed to escape.

 

This was four or five years ago. From this time he absented himself from this place, returning only privately, and holding clandestine intercourse with his credulous dupes, for two or three years.

It was during this time, and probably by the help of others more skilled in the way of iniquity than himself, that he formed the blasphemous design of forging a new revelation, which hacked by the terrors of an endless hell, and the testimony of base unprincipled men, he hoped would frighten the ignorant, and open a field of speculation for the vicious, so that he might secure to himself the scandlous [sic.] honor of being the founder of a new sect, which might rival, perhaps the Wilkinsonians, or the French Prophets of the 17th Century.

 

During the past summer [the article as printed April 9, 1831] he was frequently in this vicinity, and others of the baser sort, as Cowdery, Whitmer, etc., holding meetings, and proselyting a few weak and silly women, and still more silly men, whose minds are shrouded in a midst of ignorance which no ray can penetrate, and whose credulity the utmost absurdity cannot equal.

 

In order to check the progress of delusion, an open the eyes and understanding of those who blindly followed him, and unmask the turpitude and villainy of those who knowingly abetted him in his infamous design; he was again arraigned before a bar of Justice, during last summer [1830] to answer to a charge of misdemeanor. This trial lead to an investigation of his character and conduct, which clearly evinced to the unprejudiced whence the spirit came which dictated his inspirations. During the trial it was shown that the Book of Mormon was brought to light by the same magic power by which he pretended to tell fortunes, discover hidden treasures, etc. Oliver Cowdery, one of the three witnesses to the book, testified under oath, that said Smith found with the plates, from which he translated his book, two transparent stones, resembling glass, set in silver bows. That by looking through these, he was able to read in English, the reformed Egyptian characters, which were engraved on the plates.

 

So much for the gift and power of God, by which Smith says he translated his book. Two transparent stones, undoubtedly of the same properties, and the gift of the same spirit as the one in which he looked to find his neighbor's goods. It is reported, and probably true, that he commenced his juggling by stealing and hiding property belonging to his neighbors, and when injury was made he would look in his stone, (his gift and power) and tell where it was. Josiah Stowell, a Mormonite, being sworn, testified that he positively knew that said Smith never had lied to or deceived him, and did not believe he ever tried to deceive anybody else. The following questions were then asked him, to which he made the replied annexed.

+

Did Smith ever tell you there was money hid in a certain place which he mentioned? Yes. Did he tell you, you could find it by digging? Yes. Did you dig? Yes. Did you find any money? No. Did he not lie to you then, and deceive you? NO, the money was there, but we did not get quite to it! How do you know it was there? Smith said it was. Addison Austin was next called upon, who testified, that at the very same time that Stowell was digging for money, he, Austin, was in company with said Smith alone, and asked him to tell him honestly whether he could see this money or not. Smith hesitated some time, but finally replied, "To be candid, between you and me, I cannot, any more than you or anybody else; but any way to get a living." Here, then, we have his own confession, that he was a vile, dishonest imposter. As regards the testimony of Josiah Stowell, it needs no comment. He swears positively that Smith did not lie to him. So much for a Mormon witness. Paramount to this, in truth and consistency, was the testimony of Joseph Knight, another Mormonite. Newel Knight, son of the farmer and also a Mormonite, testified, under oath, that he positively had a devil cast out of himself by the instrumentality of Joseph Smith, Jr., and that he saw the devil after it was out, but could not tell how it looked!

 

Those who have joined them in his place, are, without exception, children who are frightened into the measure, or ignorant adults, whose love for the marvelous is equalled by nothing but their entire devotedness to the will of their leader; with a few who are as destitute of virtue and moral honesty, as they are of truth and consistency. As for the book, it is only the counter-part of his money-digging plan. Fearing the penalty of the law, and wishing still to amuse his followers, he fled for safety to the sanctuary of pretended religion. A.W.B.

 

 

[Kevin Christensen]

Here goes, regarding the trial and conviction of Joseph Smith:

  

http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changech4.htm

 

http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Legal_issues/Trials/1826_glasslooking_trial

 

http://www.lightplanet.com/response/1826Trial/facts.html

 

http://sidneyrigdon.com/criddle/Smith-ConMan.htm

 

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon430.htm

 

You will notice that I didn't include any Mormon sources.  Why?  Sophistry is defined as using words, like Michael Griffith, Jeff Lindsay, Hugh Nibley, John Sorenson, Bruce R. McConkie, and many other Mormon apologists who use words to confuse rather than to enlighten and illuminate.  When Mormon defenders of JS try to gloss-over the truth of what actually happened in 1826-27, they do it using inflated diction, an erudite vocabulary, and without saying anything credible, and at the end of their spiel, just say that JS was as pure as the driven snow and expect rank-and-file Mormons to accept their gobbly-gook.  I have included some sources that are not typically anti-Mormon.

 

A professional Mormon apologist is a person, or persons, supported financially by the Mormon Church in their efforts to undermine valid criticisms of Mormonism.  FARMS, at BYU, is a group of professional apologists.  Jeff Lindsay also receives payments from the Mormon church for his apologetic services.

You included the FAIR site, which is run by LDS members. Just so you know. So is Light Planet.

The FAIR site you linked summarizes research by Gordon Madsen that shows that Joseph was not convicted in 1926, and indeed uses Judge Neeley's bill as evidence.

The Tanners, it happens, were career apostates. That is, they made their living attacking the LDS faith. Professionals.

I've published over a dozen essays via FARMS (Now the Maxwell Institute at BYU), and I haven't received a penny for my trouble. I'm typical among contributors to FARMS that way. I'm a professional technical writer. I've contributed to the Review because I volunteered my efforts, and I passed peer review. I've also published on Mormon issues via Oxford University Press.

That makes me one of the individuals whose efforts you have misrepresented. FARMS is not, and never was, a group of professional apologists. We typically volunteered our writings. There were a few paid editors.

I would dearly love to see where Jeff Lindsay gets paid by the church for his website efforts. We could ask him. So consider this a formal Call for References to demonstrate that Jeff gets money from the church, or, lacking any evidence to support the charge, how about a Christian apology? Though, would that make you an apologist?

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

Edited March 14, 2014 by Kevin Christensen

[MiserereNobis]

So, how about Pope Innocent III and that 4th crusade?

[Calm]

So, how about Pope Innocent III and that 4th crusade?

You are the best!

[nrnowlin]

I suppose that you are as equally opposed to Dr. Walter Martin, who did a great deal of research into Smith's personal history.  And, of course, Fawn Brodie, who documented JS's conviction in her great book, "No Man Knows My History."  You see, the only people who are really interested in Smith's history are people who know that Smith was a fraudulent, and want to prove it.  Mormon's are not interested in the truth, but, rather, a deception if the truth turns out to be disaparaging.  Read the following, researched in "The Kingdom of the Cults."  Walter Martin had impeccable academic credentials.

 

Joseph Smith’s First of Two Fraud Convictions

On March 20, 1826, Joseph Smith, Jr. was brought before the local judge (Justice Neely) in Bainbridge, New York on the charge of being a “disorderly person”. The charge was a catch-all term of art for vagrants, con artists and other undesirables who’s alleged “crimes” were not specifically coded in numbered statutes. Many documents are coming to light that inform us of the truth and the details of this highly revealing event in the life of Joseph Smith. The source of all that we know about Smith’s trial and conviction include the arrest warrants, court transcripts and legal bills from four separate charges filed against Smith. These original sources are documented in the following publications:
 

“The History of Susquehanna County, Pennsylvania” by Emily C. Blackman (Philadelphia: Claxton, Remsen & Haffelfinger, 1873)

Apr. 9, 1831 – Dr. A W. Benton’s letter published in Evangelical Magazine and Gospel Advocate

Oct. 1835 - Oliver Cowdery’s account in Latter-day Saints Messenger and Advocate

An 1842 letter from Joel K. Noble (not published until 1977)

Record torn from Judge Neely docket book by Miss Emily Pearsall (Neely’s niece)

Apr. 1873 - Frazer's article reprinted in Eclectic Magazine (N.Y.)

1883 - Tuttle article in New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge

Jan. 1886 - Christian Advocate vol. 2, no. 13 (Salt Lake City, UT)

These sources (both Mormon and non-Mormon) are both detailed and summarized in:

Wesley P. Walters, "Joseph Smith's Bainbridge, N. Y., Court Trials," Westminster Theological Journal, 36:2 (Winter, 1974): 123-155; and...

“One Nation Under Gods: A History of the Mormon Church” by Richard Abanes and published by Thunder's Mouth Press, 2003

Additional detail may be scrutinized in THIS LDS source.

We also have the Isaac Hale affidavit of March 20, 1834, Susquehanna Register, and Northern Pennsylvanian 9 (May 1, 1834): 1, cited in Inventing Mormonism: Tradition and the Historical Record, 69–70 which reads:

 

Smith and his father, with several other "money-diggers" boarded at my house while they were employed in digging for a mine that they supposed had been opened and worked by the Spaniards, many years since. Young Smith gave the "money-diggers" great encouragement, at first, but when they had arrived in digging, to near the place where he had stated an immense treasure would be found—he said the enchantment was so powerful that he could not see. They then became discouraged, and soon after dispersed. This took place about the 17th of November, 1825; and one of the company gave me his note for $12[.]68 for his board, which is still unpaid.

The court record of Smith’s trial resulting in his first fraud conviction follows:

 

Warrant issued upon written complaint upon oath of Peter G. Bridgeman, who informed that one Joseph Smith of Bainbridge was a disorderly person and an imposter. Prisoner brought before Court March 20, 1826.

Prisoner examined: says that he came from the town of Palmyra, and had been at the house of Josiah Stowel in Bainbridge most of time since; had small part of time been employed in looking for mines, but the major part had been employed by said Stowel on his farm, and going to school. That he had a certain stone which he had occasionally look at to determine where hidden treasures in the bowels of the earth were; that he professed to tell in this manner where gold mines were at a distance under ground, and had looked for Mr. Stowel several times, and had informed him where he could find these treasures, and Mr. Stowel had been engaged in digging for them. That at Palmyra he pretended to tell by looking at this stone where coined money was buried in Pennsylvania and while at Palmyra had frequently ascertained in that way where lost property was of various kinds; that he had occasionally been in the habit of looking through this stone to find lost property for three years, but of late had pretty much given it up on account of its injuring his health, especially his eyes, making them sore; that he did not solicit business of this kind, and had always declined having anything to do with this business.

Josiah Stowel sworn: says that prisoner had been at his house something like five months; had been employed by him to work on farm part of time; that he pretended to have skill of telling where hidden treasures in the earth were by means of looking through a certain stone; that prisoner had looked for him sometimes; once to tell him about money buried in Bend Mountain in Pennsylvania, once for gold on Monument Hill, and once for a salt spring; and that he positively knew that the prisoner could tell, and did possess the art of seeing those valuable treasures through the medium of said stone; that he found the [word illegible] at Bend and Monument Hill as prisoner represented it; that prisoner had looked through said stone for Deacon Attleton for a mine, did not exactly find it but got a p- [word unfinished] of ore which resembled gold, he thinks; that prisoner had told by means of this stone where a Mr. Bacon had buried money; that he and prisoner had been in search of it; that prisoner had said it was in a certain root of a stump five feet from the surface of the earth, and with it would be found a tail feather; that said Stowel and prisoner thereupon commenced digging, found a tail feather, but money was gone; that he supposed the money moved down. That prisoner did offer his services; that he never deceived him; that prisoner looked through stone and described Josiah Stowel’s house and outhouses, while at Palmyra at Simpson Stowel’s, correctly; that he had told about a painted tree, with a man’s head painted upon it, by means of said stone. That he had been in company with prisoner digging for gold, and had the most implicit faith in prisoner’s skill.

Arad Stowel sworn: says that he went to see whether prisoner could convince him that he possessed the skill he professed to have, upon which prisoner laid a book upon a white cloth, and proposed looking through another stone which was white and transparent, hold the stone to the candle, turn his head to look, and read. The deception appeared so palpable that witness went off disgusted.

McMaster sworn: says he went with Arad Stowel, and likewise came away disgusted. Prisoner pretended to him that he could discover objects at a distance by holding this white stone to the sun or candle; that prisoner rather declined looking into a hat at his dark colored stone, as he said that it hurt his eyes.

Jonathon Thompson: says that prisoner was requested to look for chest of money; did look, and pretended to know where it was; and prisoner, Thompson and Yeomans went in search of it; that Smith arrived at spot first; was at night; that Smith looked in hat while there, and when very dark, and told how the chest was situated. After digging several feet, struck something sounding like a board or plant. Prisoner would not look again, pretending that he was alarmed on account of the circumstances relating to the trunk being buried [which] came all fresh to his mind. That the last time he looked he discovered distinctly the two Indians who buried the trunk, that a quarrel ensued between them, and that one of said Indians was killed by the other, and thrown into the hold beside the trunk, to guard it, as he supposed. Thompson says that he believes in the prisoner’s professed skill; that the board he struck his spade upon was probably the chest, but on account of an enchantment the trunk kept settling away from under them when digging; that notwithstanding they continued constantly removing the dirt, yet the trunk kept about the same distance from them. Says prisoner said that it appeared to him that salt might be found at Bainbridge, and that he is certain that prisoner can divine things by means of said stone. That as evidence of the fact prisoner looked into his hat to tell him about some money witness lost sixteen years ago, and that he described the amn the witness supposed had taken it, and the disposition of the money: And therefore the Court find the Defendant guilty.

Of this incident, Thomas Ferguson, founder of BYU Archaeology Dept. in recognizing Joseph Smith's fraud conviction said:
 

In 1826 Joseph Smith was 21 and at this point was midway between the first vision and 1830 {i.e. between his days as a money-digging con artist and the beginning of his career as a “prophet”}. What a strange time to be convicted of fraud – fraudulently getting money after convincing the victim that he could detect the whereabouts of hidden treasure on the victim’s land. Wow.... It is as genuine and sound as can be – published right in Joseph Smith’s own camp. (speaking to the author on March 13, 1971; and published in “Mormon Mavericks: Essays on Dissenters” by James Bovak, pp. 261-262)

A "strange time" indeed ...but only for those who cling to the notion that Joseph Smith was NOT an occult con artist. For those of us who recognize the fact that he clearly WAS an occult con artist, Smith, in going forward with his little magic rock to found the Mormon religion was simply living down to our expectations.

To this day, Mormons continue in Smith's tradition.

-BH

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Joseph Smith was convicted and condemned, but was probably allowed to escape.  Read the following!

Well you didn't disappoint. Oh wait you did. I was looking for a valid (1st hand) sources not some 3rd hand account. There is 0 source material here and nothing anyone could validate. Why not just produce the court documents that show the conviction?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I suppose that you are as equally opposed to Dr. Walter Martin,

-BH

He is not even a Dr in any sense. Good grief. He has a PHD from Madeup U.

[Calm]

"You see, the only people who are really interested in Smith's history are people who know that Smith was a fraudulent, and want to prove it"

Which is the Church is not putting out all those academic volumes on the Joesph Smith Papers,etc.

http://josephsmithpapers.org/

Edited March 13, 2014 by calmoriah

[Nevo]

.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Nevo

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

"You see, the only people who are really interested in Smith's history are people who know that Smith was a fraudulent, and want to prove it"

 

This seems like putting the cart before the horse. We don't have evidence that he was a fraud but we know the history and we are going to prove he was a fraud.

 

Lol.

[halconero]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

 

Sigh

 

Better get back to my homework.

[Calm]

This seems like putting the cart before the horse. We don't have evidence that he was a fraud but we know the history and we are going to prove he was a fraud.

 

Lol.

Well as much as those who believe he is a prophet and think they are going to prove it through history.

To claim it gives them some sort of higher insight, purpose or whatever seems rather strange though.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Well as much as those who believe he is a prophet and think they are going to prove it through history.

To claim it gives them some sort of higher insight, purpose or whatever seems rather strange though.

I agree.

[Hestia]

nrnowlin needs to take a break while he reads board rules about answering CFR's and preaching.

[canard78]

...Professional Mormon apologists, such as Michael T. Griffith and Jeff Lindsay...

I know Jeff and he'd find it very amusing to be described as a professional apologist.

Jeff currently works full time for a paper company (APP) in Shanghai in their intellectual property team. For a small fee, or even just the cost of the flight he will visit your innovation conference to talk about his expertise in protecting and encouraging innovation.

In his spare time his favourite things to do are:

- spend time with his lovely wife

- try a new Asian food (he particularly likes a good soup)

- read books

- blog about Mormon history that he has read about in some of the books he reads

Jeff's natural talent is less in researching history and much more in being able to read, internalise and synthesise the information he reads.

He has never made any money that I know of from his LDS blogging.

He's not a professional apologist, but I'm glad the good man comes across as one.

[Calm]

" nrnowlin needs to take a break while he reads board rules about answering CFR's and preaching."

But they're so fun to play with when they're wet behind the ears.

Edited March 13, 2014 by calmoriah

[thatjimguy]

Does anyone have a list of the things that are wrong on the website? Some of it seems up and up to me.

 

The part of the blacks may be outdated due to the new release from the church, denouncing many of those teachings.

[Calm]

See the FairMormon response I linked to above. Doesn't cover everything, did enough to get the point across (IMO) but had to move on to other things. Those involved in the project may come back to it if time or need warrants. Feel free to write FM if there is a point you think needs to be covered more or was missed that you would like see addressed.

[MiserereNobis]

You are the best!

 

Thanks, you sweet talking woman (yes, I'm refering to your Latin motto...)

 

[Garden Girl]

Judasfreakingpriest Pa Pa, are you awake when you write?... 

 

Hello QB ....

Your above comment shows that you are unaware of some of Pa Pa's health issues and that at times some of his meds impact his writing... If you read his posts at all, you will see they are mainly well written and insightful (other times he has to put up with the effects of his health)... and, he is a very talented poet. 

I wouldn't be slamming him if I were you as it comes across as unkind, and certainly uncalled for...

 

Thanks... GG

 

edit to add:  I know Pa Pa well enough, and his writing, that when I see something he posts that is not up to his usual self, I think to myself... Oh-oh, Pa Pa is having a bad day and I say a little prayer for him... 

Edited March 14, 2014 by Garden Girl

[AndyDnom]

if studying and the hat were equally used, or equally likely to be used at any given time, why no artwork of the hat?

[Calm]

if studying and the hat were equally used, or equally likely to be used at any given time, why no artwork of the hat?

Personally I think that if an illustration for the purpose of telling a story requires more explanation than the information it provides, it is not all that helpful.  IOW, if the picture is for telling a specific possible technique of translation, then sure use the hat and spend 20 minutes or so at least providing the background on why Joseph would be using it because that would be the focus of the less--the mechanics of the translation.

 

However, if the purpose of the lesson is to simply convey that Joseph translated the plates by the power of God and not the mechanics of how he did it, then the hat adds too much content needing to be explained and simplifying it down to Joseph and the plates makes sense.  The problem comes about when people assume that means how the translation was done even if that information isn't included (someone doesn't say "Here is how Joseph translated the plates" rather than "here is a picture of Joseph with the plates").  

 

I think it is wisdom to start including the information as kids become older and more capable of remembering details, at least by seminary, various options of translation techniques that were given by various witnesses should be shared…but I think it is better to read the descriptions and let the kids imagine it how they want rather than showing a picture that will always be filling in details not given as that can cause misunderstandings as well (I saw great examples of that when I had kids in Primary argue with me about what went on in scripture stories with details not in the scriptures that had been added to the animated videos they watched).

 

And now with the Gospel Topic article, the information is easily accessible to all who use computers and it appears that it will be included in future lessons and instructions about family and personal study as well (see the videos that introduce the new versions) plus it was stated that they will be replacing the Gospel Principles manuals for investigators and new converts so exposure will come very early.

Edited March 14, 2014 by calmoriah

[thatjimguy]

I still don't get these "helpful" Websites about Mormonism: why the covert approach? Just reveal your Real World ID and contact information. Put up or don't talk. Who in their right thinking would trust anonymity? Sandra Tanner, now there is a real name and face and place where you can talk to her. If you are a leader you have to be a real person in plain view. If you can't do that much, then don't bother, this kind of "job" isn't for you....

 

Somehow, I think that people belive there are real world repercussions in LDS society if they say anything that lacks even a little faith, let alone attack it.