Ethical Question About Relationships In Church

[Duncan]

So, a few of us after Church today were talking about relationships in Church. What do you think is worse, 1) dating online to someone but you've never met them or 2) having feelings towards a missionary in your ward or being a missionary and having feelings towards a member but you never act on it until after your mission-There is a guy in our ward who married a sister missionary who served here and there is a Bishop in our stake who met and essentially dated his wife online. What do you think is worse or better or neither is preferred to the other?

[Kenngo1969]

Neither. Perhaps something is getting lost in translation here, but I don't see the problem. On-line interaction for potential romantic purposes carries with it the distinct risk that one of the parties won't be on the same wavelength with the other party (I plead guilty as charged; you can sentence me now, Your Honor! ), but you've already told us how that interaction ended up, and the "different wavelengths" problem doesn't involve inherent impropriety (unless, e.g., one participant starts "Cyber-stalking" the other or something). As for missionaries having feelings for one another (or a missionary having feelings for a member), again, I don't see the problem unless one or the other tries to act on those feelings during the mission. (Full disclosure: My brother married a sister missionary with whom he served, but there were no romantic inclinations between the two until well after their missions.)

Cupid, like God, moves in mysterious ways!

[halconero]

I think that we have to be careful in generalizing any path that leads to marriage. Traditional, face-to-face dating can be abusive, not enjoyable, and unhappy and still lead to marriage just as much as it can be fun, caring and eternally joyful. The same applies to those who met on their missions or online.

Examples (all pulled from real life experiences of either myself or close friends):

Bad example: Elder ***** in Phoenix goes to a ward and develops a crush on a girl in the ward. He breaks mission rules, wastes proselyting time, hides it from his companion and leaders and rushes into marriage three weeks after he gets home. They just had their first kid a few weeks ago. I am happy for them, I am happy for their temple marriage, but man, I wanted to smack that sucker so many times during and after that incident.

Good example: Elder and Sister so-and-so serve at the same time, in the same district in the Phoenix mission. He was her district leader, and when they got moved they both got transferred at the same time, to a different district where he was her zone leader. They kept things missionary-appropriate, followed the counsel of the mission president, and focused on the work. They were both from the east coast and after their mission they kept in touch and then met up at a YSA conference over there. They began dating and are now happily married and expecting.

Online dating:

Bad example: My dad (the current Bishop) gets a call from a brother in the ward asking him to marry a lady he's been dating online for the past two months. They had only just met up for the first time face-to-face and she needed to get married right then and there or get deported back to the United States. This is his fourth and her third marriage. They do not really know each other. And have been together, in person, a total of 3 hours. Will it work out? I hope so. Is it a horse I would bet on given it's track record? Not a chance in Outer Darkness.

Good example: My friend Haley in Toronto signs up with ldsplanet.com, starts chatting with a wonderful man across the country. They finally agree to meet up after a few months of back and forth. They have a fun first in-person date. After meeting up a few more times and continuing to skype he transfer to a job closer to Toronto and they continue the relationship and get married. Happily married and just had their first kid.

Face to face dating:

Do I really need to give examples for this one? I'm sure we all have our own good and not-so-good stories here.

I guess what I'm trying to say is:

It's not about the final score. It's how you play the game.

Edited June 9, 2013 by halconero

[Duncan]

I think that we have to be careful in generalizing any path that leads to marriage. Traditional, face-to-face dating can be abusive, not enjoyable, and unhappy and still lead to marriage just as much as it can be fun, caring and eternally joyful. The same applies to those who met on their missions or online.

Examples (all pulled from real life experiences of either myself or close friends):

Bad example: Elder ***** in Phoenix goes to a ward and develops a crush on a girl on the ward. He breaks mission rules, wastes proselyting time, hides it from his companion and leaders and rushes into marriage three weeks after he gets home. They just had their first kid a few weeks ago. I am happy for them, I am happy for their temple marriage, but man, I wanted to smack that sucker so many times during and after that incident.

Good example: Elder and Sister so-and-so serve at the same time, in the same district in the Phoenix mission. He was her district leader, and when they got moved they both got transferred at the same time, to a different district where he was her zone leader. They kept things missionary-appropriate, followed the counsel of the mission president, and focused on the work. They were both from the east coast and after their mission they kept in touch and then met up at a YSA conference over there. They began dating and are now happily married and expecting.

Online dating:

Bad example: My dad (the current Bishop) gets a call from a brother in the ward asking him to marry a lady he's been dating online for the past two months. They had only just met up for the first time face-to-face and she needed to get married right then and there or get deported back to the United States. This is his fourth and her third marriage. They do not really know each other. And have been together, in person, a total of 3 hours. Will it work out? I hope so. Is it a horse I would bet on given it's track record? Not a chance in Outer Darkness.

Good example: My friend Haley in Toronto signs up with ldsplanet.com, starts chatting with a wonderful man across the country. They finally agree to meet up after a few months of back and forth. They have a fun first in-person date. After meeting up a few more times and continuing to skype he transfer to a job closer to Toronto and they continue the relationship and get married. Happily married and just had their first kid.

Face to face dating:

Do I really need to give examples for this one? I'm sure we all have our own good and not-so-good stories here.

I guess what I'm trying to say is:

It's not about the final score. It's how you play the game.

what a final argument zinger!!! Thank you!

[BCSpace]

My missionary trainer had developed a relationship with a young girl in the ward he was serving in. They were caught together, not necessarily breaking the law of chastity, but he still received a face full of BB's from an angry dad. So that was the state I found myself in when I came to L.A. The sisters were serving the ward on Sundays and we tracted an area the sisters couldn't go and did not attend Church for a whole month. The first and last time I was ever inactive was the first area of my mission. Obviously this was well before they raised the bar.

[thatjimguy]

It's called the Holy Spirit and it has the tendency to break rules.

[Calm]

Not following your reasoning.

[Duncan]

Not following your reasoning.

mine? just saying what is worse either situation or neither

[Calm]

mine? just saying what is worse either situation or neither

Sorry, jimguy's.....I always try to remember to quote if I am not responding to the guy directly above me.

Get your reasoning exactly.

[Duncan]

Sorry, jimguy's.....I always try to remember to quote if I am not responding to the guy directly above me.

Get your reasoning exactly.

oh! no sweat!

[Stone holm]

So, a few of us after Church today were talking about relationships in Church. What do you think is worse, 1) dating online to someone but you've never met them or 2) having feelings towards a missionary in your ward or being a missionary and having feelings towards a member but you never act on it until after your mission-There is a guy in our ward who married a sister missionary who served here and there is a Bishop in our stake who met and essentially dated his wife online. What do you think is worse or better or neither is preferred to the other?

Don't see a problem with either one. Just because somebody is on a mission doesn't mean they are a physiological zombie, and out here online dating has almost become a necessity unless they want to date a gentile and hope he or she converts.

[Kenngo1969]

Don't see a problem with either one. Just because somebody is on a mission doesn't mean they are a physiological zombie, and out here online dating has almost become a necessity unless they want to date a gentile and hope he or she converts.

I guess "Date-a-Gentile-and-Hope-She-Converts" always an option for Yours Truly. Edited June 12, 2013 by Kenngo1969

[Stone holm]

I guess "Date-a-Gentile-and-Hope-She-Converts" always an option for Yours Truly.

A lot of the young people out here are meeting up on the Internet. If they follow it up with in the flesh dating it seems to be not so bad of a system, the marriages don't seem to fall apart at a faster rate. The just got off a mission time to get married marriages seem to last about as long as the mission. If I weren't a Mormon, I would probably recommend living together, but that isn't an option for us.

[Calm]

If I weren't a Mormon, I would probably recommend living together, but that isn't an option for us.

People who live together prior to marriage are more likely to get divorced when married than those who don't.

[Stone holm]

People who live together prior to marriage are more likely to get divorced when married than those who don't.

As much as I dislike doing that CFR on that. The bigger question is whether had all of those who had lived together prior to marriage gotten married -- how many of those would have gotten divorced.

[Calm]

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/between-you-and-me/201208/the-potential-perils-premarital-cohabitation-and-how-avoid-them

Other claims I am going to try and investigate later...from a site not worth linking to for the rest of the comments, I am only posting them here so I don't lose track of trying to find them. I am not currently claiming they are accurate, they were just claims by what appeared to be at least sensible people that got me curious:

Most who move in together do NOT marry

There is a higher risk of domestic violence in couples who live together and are NOT married.

90% of cohabitating couples describe their relationship as "on the rocks".

If you have a child, that child has a higher risk of abuse (physically and sexually) in a live in relationship.

Living together before marriage dramatically raises your risk for INFIDELITY after marriage and raises your chance of ending in DIVORCE. D

Divorce rate is LOWEST in couples who both were virgins and did not cohabitate before marriage.

Edited June 12, 2013 by calmoriah

[Calm]

As much as I dislike doing that CFR on that. The bigger question is whether had all of those who had lived together prior to marriage gotten married -- how many of those would have gotten divorced.

Or if they hadn't lived together prior to marriage, would have stayed married if they made that commitment.

[Stone holm]

http://www.psycholog...-how-avoid-them

Other claims I am going to try and investigate later...from a site not worth linking to for the rest of the comments, I am only posting them here so I don't lose track of trying to find them. I am not currently claiming they are accurate, they were just claims by what appeared to be at least sensible people that got me curious:

Most who move in together do NOT marry

There is a higher risk of domestic violence in couples who live together and are NOT married.

90% of cohabitating couples describe their relationship as "on the rocks".

If you have a child, that child has a higher risk of abuse (physically and sexually) in a live in relationship.

Living together before marriage dramatically raises your risk for INFIDELITY after marriage and raises your chance of ending in DIVORCE. D

Divorce rate is LOWEST in couples who both were virgins and did not cohabitate before marriage.

Interesting that study talks about the difference between those engaged to be married before they cohabitate. I suspect you are probably right about that last statistic -- and I suspect that such marriages still actually occur, I think I might even know some people where that was a possibility.