Mary, The Mother Of Jesus Christ

[EllenMaksoud]

Well, I am not going to go into the mechanics -- although I believe I recall some of the early Brethren did go into the mechanics. To me the "virgin birth" thing not that important, nor is it important to me how she was impregnated, but it would be against Church doctrine for her to merely have been a surrogate unwed mother.

Right now, I am quite pleased to NOT have the priesthood. When I get confused and upset, I can still be meek and obedient.

[Ahab]

I'm sorry, right now I just need Heavenly Father to be so much more than I am so he can protect me and I can feel safe in his arms.

I understand. I like that part of him too. And that is part of why I don't agree with him not having any parts or passions.

Anyway, this is supposed to be about Mary, I think. How did we end up talking about our Father who is also the Father of Jesus?

Edited May 30, 2013 by Ahab

[EllenMaksoud]

I understand. I like that part of him too. And that is part of why I don't agree with him not having any parts or passions.

Anyway, this is supposed to be about Mary, I think. How did we end up talking about our Father who is also the Father of Jesus?

Sorry. I have to take a break and go watch "Star Wars".

[Ahab]

Sorry. I have to take a break and go watch "Star Wars".

Which episode? Have fun, and may the force be with you.

[thesometimesaint]

Really? So you are accusing God of what.? The Lord assured Joseph he would be otherwise provided for and he was alluding to what?

Yes really. I'm not accusing God of anything. We have no doctrine as to how Mary became pregnant with Jesus. We proudly claim and support the claim in the Bible that Jesus was born of a virgin. BTW; WE do know that a woman can be a virgin and still give birth through In Vetro fertilization. I'm not suggesting that was how it must have been done. But it does meet both criteria.

[Tacenda]

I'm sorry, life is so deadly serious and stressful right now that I am engaging in a bit of comic relief and it is not my intention to be disrespectful at all.

So, for me, God, Heavenly Father, Allah (Subhanna Wa Ta Alllah) is just to big in so many ways that I won't try to limit him to the rules of the universe as I understand it. Once in a while he reaches out and touches us in ways that we can understand, Please understand that I am not finding fault with anyone's explanations. For me I just have to provide an explanation for my own use that seems reasonable.

I totally agree with your so eloquently put statement, that Heavenly Father is so big in so many ways, that we probably are clueless to how big He really is, but you say it better. Hope life is less serious and stressful soon, Ellen!

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I'm sorry, life is so deadly serious and stressful right now that I am engaging in a bit of comic relief and it is not my intention to be disrespectful at all.

So, for me, God, Heavenly Father, Allah (Subhanna Wa Ta Alllah) is just to big in so many ways that I won't try to limit him to the rules of the universe as I understand it. Once in a while he reaches out and touches us in ways that we can understand, Please understand that I am not finding fault with anyone's explanations. For me I just have to provide an explanation for my own use that seems reasonable.

I don't know why I am being so misunderstood on this issue, I have not suggested he has any limitations, but everything I have said is that he does not need to do things like men (that has been the common thread in every post for this thread). I truly feel that I am so bad at this...maybe I should write everything in poem, every gets what I am saying then. I just don't seem to have the talent for this...especially with the company here. 90% here have so much more education than I do, I only have High School and 4 years of Electrical Trade School. I have been here 61/2 years, not allowed to posts threads for almost a year now, get 12 posts a day, spell like a 4 year old. I have taught in Technical Colleges for 24 years, do seminars all over the State for sick amounts of money. I did a four hour seminar at GA Tech last week and was payed $1,200. But here few understand anything I try to say. . I am just tired on being embarrassed. Maybe I should just get a new IP address and change my screen name and account, maybe I just rub people the wrong way...I know anti-Mormons do. On other site they tell me to take writing courses, spelling courses and call me stupid. But they are there to run down Mormons...none worse that sites filled with former Mormons, they are so angry. Mormon Discussions is a snake pit. Sorry, I hope this is not seen as a rant, I am going to 56 tomorrow and live in such pain, having to apply for Social Security so young due to my back that was broken, when in pain I guess my nerves are raw. Getting back to Mary, read one of the most doctrine filled scriptures in the BoM...1 Nephi 9: 18, and the best scripture on judgment 2 Nephi 9: 41...hope these are correct, going from memory, but I am confident it is correct. Be of good cheer my sister.

[EllenMaksoud]

Which episode? Have fun, and may the force be with you.

1&2

[EllenMaksoud]

I don't know why I am being so misunderstood on this issue, I have not suggested he has any limitations, but everything I have said is that he does not need to do things like men (that has been the common thread in every post for this thread). I truly feel that I am so bad at this...maybe I should write everything in poem, every gets what I am saying then. I just don't seem to have the talent for this...especially with the company here. 90% here have so much more education than I do, I only have High School and 4 years of Electrical Trade School. I have been here 61/2 years, not allowed to posts threads for almost a year now, get 12 posts a day, spell like a 4 year old. I have taught in Technical Colleges for 24 years, do seminars all over the State for sick amounts of money. I did a four hour seminar at GA Tech last week and was payed $1,200. But here few understand anything I try to say. . I am just tired on being embarrassed. Maybe I should just get a new IP address and change my screen name and account, maybe I just rub people the wrong way...I know anti-Mormons do. On other site they tell me to take writing courses, spelling courses and call me stupid. But they are there to run down Mormons...none worse that sites filled with former Mormons, they are so angry. Mormon Discussions is a snake pit. Sorry, I hope this is not seen as a rant, I am going to 56 tomorrow and live in such pain, having to apply for Social Security so young due to my back that was broken, when in pain I guess my nerves are raw. Getting back to Mary, read one of the most doctrine filled scriptures in the BoM...1 Nephi 9: 18, and the best scripture on judgment 2 Nephi 9: 41...hope these are correct, going from memory, but I am confident it is correct. Be of good cheer my sister.

OH, I most certainly did not intend to insult you, and am very sorry if I did. I will read back through this thread in the morning and try to determine how I made you feel devalued. I'm too tired tonight.

We have a great deal more in common than you would ever suspect. Sweet dreams Brother.

[Tacenda]

I don't know why I am being so misunderstood on this issue, I have not suggested he has any limitations, but everything I have said is that he does not need to do things like men (that has been the common thread in every post for this thread). I truly feel that I am so bad at this...maybe I should write everything in poem, every gets what I am saying then. I just don't seem to have the talent for this...especially with the company here. 90% here have so much more education than I do, I only have High School and 4 years of Electrical Trade School. I have been here 61/2 years, not allowed to posts threads for almost a year now, get 12 posts a day, spell like a 4 year old. I have taught in Technical Colleges for 24 years, do seminars all over the State for sick amounts of money. I did a four hour seminar at GA Tech last week and was payed $1,200. But here few understand anything I try to say. . I am just tired on being embarrassed. Maybe I should just get a new IP address and change my screen name and account, maybe I just rub people the wrong way...I know anti-Mormons do. On other site they tell me to take writing courses, spelling courses and call me stupid. But they are there to run down Mormons...none worse that sites filled with former Mormons, they are so angry. Mormon Discussions is a snake pit. Sorry, I hope this is not seen as a rant, I am going to 56 tomorrow and live in such pain, having to apply for Social Security so young due to my back that was broken, when in pain I guess my nerves are raw. Getting back to Mary, read one of the most doctrine filled scriptures in the BoM...1 Nephi 9: 18, and the best scripture on judgment 2 Nephi 9: 41...hope these are correct, going from memory, but I am confident it is correct. Be of good cheer my sister.

Happy Birthday in 32 minutes! (my time)

Hey, Pa Pa, just wanted to tell you a little about my dad. He also broke his back and then had several back surgeries. He had constant pain, walked with a major limp etc. He had to quit his job and go on disability. He went into deep depression because of that. When I was in high school and came home for lunch my dad would be sitting playing solitair in his easy chair almost every day. But he soon came out of depression and figured out what to do with his time. I know how hard it can be on a man's ego. I'm glad that medical technology is so much better now for your sake. It'll get better.

And if your posts sound dumb, then mine are really bad. I love your posts, they are very intelligent, well written and never boring, maybe it's the poet in you. Have a good one tomorrow! PS: Maybe the mods might give you unlimited status for your b-day!

Edited May 31, 2013 by Tacenda

[Calm]

Happy Birthday in 32 minutes! (my time)

Take your pick! (assuming this works):

[Calm]

Or this:

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Happy Birthday in 32 minutes! (my time)

Hey, Pa Pa, just wanted to tell you a little about my dad. He also broke his back and then had several back surgeries. He had constant pain, walked with a major limp etc. He had to quit his job and go on disability. He went into deep depression because of that. When I was in high school and came home for lunch my dad would be sitting playing solitair in his easy chair almost every day. But he soon came out of depression and figured out what to do with his time. I know how hard it can be on a man's ego. I'm glad that medical technology is so much better now for your sake. It'll get better.

And if your posts sound dumb, then mine are really bad. I love your posts, they are very intelligent, well written and never boring, maybe it's the poet in you. Have a good one tomorrow! PS: Maybe the mods might give you unlimited status for your b-day!

Thank you...I know how he felt, I feel like the kid who hit us killed me that day and have prayed for death many times. As I may may have said, I am insulted for getting money for being hurt...I need, I want a Job, but other than a few classes with long standing org's I have taught for who let me sit or even lie on the floor, not much to do. I cannot pick up my grandbabies any more or run and chase them as I used too. A few months ago one asked why I did not love them anymore because I don't play with them anymore. AI used

To be able to tear down a house with will and a hammer. Now I lie in bed most of each of most days, sit when I can and walk with a a cane. I do get great parking though.

[ERayR]

Thank you...I know how he felt, I feel like the kid who hit us killed me that day and have prayed for death many times. As I may may have said, I am insulted for getting money for being hurt...I need, I want a Job, but other than a few classes with long standing org's I have taught for who let me sit or even lie on the floor, not much to do. I cannot pick up my grandbabies any more or run and chase them as I used too. A few months ago one asked why I did not love them anymore because I don't play with them anymore. AI used

To be able to tear down a house with will and a hammer. Now I lie in bed most of each of most days, sit when I can and walk with a a cane. I do get great parking though.

Pa Pa believe me I know the feeling that one is useless. Due to degenerative disks in my neck and lower back I am no longer able to be on my feet except for very short periods. Its a bummer. However I do feel the comforting of the Holy Spirit and it helps. Hang in there and keep smiling. It will make others wonder what your up to.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Take your pick! (assuming this works):

I found out today that while I am 56 today, President Eyring (is this how you spell his name) is 80 today, and my daughter-in-laws Mother has the same birthday as both of us...but I know better to ask a woman's age.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Happy Birthday in 32 minutes! (my time)

Hey, Pa Pa, just wanted to tell you a little about my dad. He also broke his back and then had several back surgeries. He had constant pain, walked with a major limp etc. He had to quit his job and go on disability. He went into deep depression because of that. When I was in high school and came home for lunch my dad would be sitting playing solitair in his easy chair almost every day. But he soon came out of depression and figured out what to do with his time. I know how hard it can be on a man's ego. I'm glad that medical technology is so much better now for your sake. It'll get better.

And if your posts sound dumb, then mine are really bad. I love your posts, they are very intelligent, well written and never boring, maybe it's the poet in you. Have a good one tomorrow! PS: Maybe the mods might give you unlimited status for your b-day!

I am limited...for a long time now, Despite repeated requested to be reinstated...not even a simple no answer. I was once cross with a BYU Professor and am not a favorite son here. But it is their board and their rules, so I respect them. When I got a new IP address so after being limited I could have started a new account, but my respect for their duties would not let my conscience do so...integrity can be limiting can't it. So I will obey the rules as long as I am required to. I has Physical Therapy today and have to go to a funeral tomorrow of a dear friend. But my family has made it a good day. Edited June 1, 2013 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Ahab]

Pa Pa believe me I know the feeling that one is useless. Due to degenerative disks in my neck and lower back I am no longer able to be on my feet except for very short periods. Its a bummer. However I do feel the comforting of the Holy Spirit and it helps. Hang in there and keep smiling. It will make others wonder what your up to.

I extend my compassion to you. My wife is in the same boat and she doesn't really like boats. Just a little at a time. You keep hanging in there, too.

[Tacenda]

I am limited...for a long time now. Dispirited repeated requested to be reinstated...not even a simple no answer. I was once cross with a BYU Professor and am not a favorite son here. But it is their board and their rules, so I respect them. When I got a new IP address so after being limited I could have started a new account, but my respect for their duties would not let my conscience do so...integrity can be limiting can't it. So I will obey the rules as long as I am required to. I has Physical Therapy today and have to go to a funeral tomorrow of a dear friend. But my family has made it a good day.

I'm glad your family made it nice (birthday). About being on limited, the one thing I dislike the most is not being able to give rep points! I have mixed feelings on the amount of posts I'm able to post. Sometimes it helps to be shut up, often I feel I say the stupidest things. A few years ago I use to read this board without registering and thinking to myself that you people on here were so above me in knowledge and I'd never be able to hold a two way with anyone, and now look at me, I feel so blessed. If I wasn't on here who knows where I would have ended up. And with me, I can be such a sponge for others thoughts and tend to take them as my own, so high school huh? I need to change that. Anyway, hopefully you never give up this board, you are very important here, and everybody loves you and have hope for you to get a full recovery! Sorry to be so mushy.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I'm glad your family made it nice (birthday). About being on limited, the one thing I dislike the most is not being able to give rep points! I have mixed feelings on the amount of posts I'm able to post. Sometimes it helps to be shut up, often I feel I say the stupidest things. A few years ago I use to read this board without registering and thinking to myself that you people on here were so above me in knowledge and I'd never be able to hold a two way with anyone, and now look at me, I feel so blessed. If I wasn't on here who knows where I would have ended up. And with me, I can be such a sponge for others thoughts and tend to take them as my own, so high school huh? I need to change that. Anyway, hopefully you never give up this board, you are very important here, and everybody loves you and have hope for you to get a full recovery! Sorry to be so mushy.

I won't give up trying to get better at writing, and doing this helps. But the IPAD self corrects words and many times it is the wrong word...I try to proof read, but still mess up. The Mods do have a thankless job, and are volunteers, so I am not going to be harsh, nor break the rules. I just hope someday to be forgiven. But enough of derailing, the thread is a great one for discussion.

[canard78]

I've had lots of time lately, having been grounded by my Doctor and sent home after a blessing by my Bishop. Perhaps hallucinations have triggered the following.

So, between sleeping and short naps, I've had lots of time to study. It started out with my effort to definitively explain to Muslim friends (that means understanding their side also) who we as Mormons believe Jesus Christ is. I've discovered significant variation just in the so called Christian community, AS IF.

The Catholics get all mystical, but if you want to see mystical then read a bit about Orthodox Christianity, or what the Copts believe. Not ridiculing anyone here. So, after reading all that, then the views of Muslims, depending on what sect, do not seem strange at all.

Interestingly, while Muslims believe he is the Messiah, he is also considered to be a slave to Allah SWT. In the cultural context, being a slave to Allah SWT is not demeaning at all. In fact Paul considered himself to be a bond slave of Jesus Christ. Hmmmm.

I am finding the Muslim point of view not to be so strange after all, though I believe differently, and by prophesy, our cultures will never agree. http://islamawareness.net/Prophets/isa.html

I am victim of my own cultural conditioning. And the reason I finally left Islam was that I could never come to peace with their view on Jesus Christ.

However, the so called main stream, right wing newsie opinion, I find to be equally off and distasteful, even repugnant.

I'm not sure I see what this has to do with Mary? Or am I being thick?

[thesometimesaint]

Maybe it has to do with being merry.

[canard78]

Maybe it has to do with being merry.

[EllenMaksoud]

I'm not sure I see what this has to do with Mary? Or am I being thick?

I just accidentally derailed my own thread. "Orf with her head".

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I just accidentally derailed my own thread. "Orf with her head".

I did some of that but am trying to get it back on track. The scripture I told you to read says referring to the vigin in Nephi's vision, that she "is the mother of God, after the manner of the flesh". Which means Christ has a heavenly mother, this is why this scripture makes a clear distinction. In fact a complete read of 1 Nephi 11.