EllenMaksoud Posted May 30, 2013 Author Posted May 30, 2013 Really? So you are accusing God of what.? The Lord assured Joseph he would be otherwise provided for and he was alluding to what?Somewhere I recently read that Mary was married to God. To me, that seems like irrational gobledegook.
Calm Posted May 30, 2013 Posted May 30, 2013 I originally mispoke. Mary I have no issue with. The non Mormon christian church I do. For clarity you can consider me a Mormon/Muslim or Muslim/Mormon. In respect to Jesus the Christ specifically, he is the son of God.Perhaps you should ask the mods to change the title of the thread to "Christianity 8.0" or something like that.
Calm Posted May 30, 2013 Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) Somewhere I recently read that Mary was married to God. To me, that seems like irrational gobledegook.In the past the idea of a surrogate mother would likely not made much sense given their (some early church leaders in the LDS faith) culture so their solution (once plural marriage became acceptable) to a woman sharing a child with God was to have her married to him. One also has to see God as a human being first to believe there might be a need for marriage of Christ's parents.These days bearing the child of someone you are not married to while remaining chaste and pure and even a virgin is not so far fetched and is even presented many times as a loving sacrifice for someone you love (such as a sister carrying a child for her own sister who cannot due to infertility or inability to sustain a pregnancy fullterm). Edited May 30, 2013 by calmoriah
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted May 30, 2013 Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) Really? So you are accusing God of what.? The Lord assured Joseph he would be otherwise provided for and he was alluding to what?Why would Mary need to be married to God...it is speculation run amuck. The scripture says that the Spirit came over her and she overpowered by the highest. This does mean God had to have intercourse. I man can figure out how to impregnate a woman with intercourse, you don't think God could? We should stick to s scripture and stop dwelling on every side comment makes, or does. As I have said a number of times, if President Monson wore a blue short in General Conference, every blue shirt in Utah would sell out the following day. We all need to get a grip! Edited May 31, 2013 by Bill “Papa” Lee
Calm Posted May 30, 2013 Posted May 30, 2013 This does mean God had to have intercourse.I think you are missing a "not" in there.
Stone holm Posted May 30, 2013 Posted May 30, 2013 Why would Mary need to be married to Mary...it is speculation run amuck. The scripture says that the Spirit came over her and she overpowered by the highest. This does mean God had to have intercourse. I man can figure out how to impregnate a woman with intercourse, you don't think God could? We should stick to s scripture and stop dwelling on every side comment makes, or does. As I have said a number of times, if President Monson wore a blue short in General Conference, every blue shirt in Utah would sell out the following day. We all need to get a grip! Don't have the time right now, but will look up the teaching on this subject that explains that if Mary was to have a child by and become a handmaiden of Heavenly Father then she had to have married Him.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted May 30, 2013 Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) I think you are missing a "not" in there. Just had many friends over the years who think Elohiem had intercourse with Mary, which would mean, "no virgin birth". The odd think is they would cite "Mormon Doctrine" (the book) where Bruce R, said that begotten means begotten and Christ was begotten like all me. The thing is he meant "seed". Under the topic of "Virgin Birth" he stated emphatically that, Christ was born to a virgin (Mary) and that any one or church who taught otherwise was (and I quote from memory) were "totally apostate and false!" We do far to much speculation and in so doing offend God...IMHO. Edited May 31, 2013 by Bill “Papa” Lee
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted May 30, 2013 Posted May 30, 2013 I originally mispoke. Mary I have no issue with. The non Mormon christian church I do. For clarity you can consider me a Mormon/Muslim or Muslim/Mormon. In respect to Jesus the Christ specifically, he is the son of God.I am just glad we have you...as President Hinckley pointed out, come join us and bring all the good from your pervious faith (too paraphrase).
EllenMaksoud Posted May 30, 2013 Author Posted May 30, 2013 I am just glad we have you...as President Hinckley pointed out, come join us and bring all the good from your pervious faith (too paraphrase).Mashallah! (All Good comes from God) Shukran Jazillion. (Thanks a bunch) I guess you can tell that I am not as ill any more, huh?
Ahab Posted May 30, 2013 Posted May 30, 2013 Just had many friends over the years who think Elohiem had intercourse with Mary, which would men, "no virgin birth". The odd think is they would cite "Mormon Doctrine" (the book) where Bruce R, said that begotten means begotten and Christ was begotten like all me. The thing is he meant "seed". Under the topic of "Virgin Birth" he stated emphatically that, Christ was born to a virgin (Mary) and that any one or church who taught otherwise was (and I quote from memory) were "totally apostate and false!" We do far to much speculation and in so doing offend God...IMHO. 1) If Mary was impregnated by in-vitro fertilzation she would have still been a virgin, technically, and this is what most people accept as the way Mary became impregnated, anyway.2) Begotten simply refers to being parented by both a male and a female. One of her eggs had to be fertilized by a male because that's what it takes for our species to reproduce.
EllenMaksoud Posted May 30, 2013 Author Posted May 30, 2013 1) If Mary was impregnated by in-vitro fertilzation she would have still been a virgin, technically, and this is what most people accept as the way Mary became impregnated, anyway.2) Begotten simply refers to being parented by both a male and a female. One of her eggs had to be fertilized by a male because that's what it takes for our species to reproduce.Well, that is not actually correct. Two researchers have found a way to fertilize an egg with out sperm. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1431489.stmOh, I am sure there will be a great ruction over this. I can hear the moral purists howling in righteous indignation now ! I have heard Catholics say, "Mary mother of God". And for me this is like totally NOT OK! However, if people can tolerate my, goofy to them, Muslim bent, then the burden is on me to become more tolerant. I just learned the other day that us Mormons consider Jesus Christ to be the God of the OT. That's a head spinner for me.Personally, I think that anyone who can create humans from mud and water, and some lightning and amonia, can pretty much do anything he wants to. I have issue with restricting the makeup of Heavenly Father to flesh and bone. Myself, I prefer MAC.I think it is quite laughable that we humans try to wax eloquently about matters they know nothing about, and in truth we know very little full stop. 1
Ahab Posted May 30, 2013 Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) Well, that is not actually correct. Two researchers have found a way to fertilize an egg with out sperm. http://news.bbc.co.u...lth/1431489.stmWell, since it was a boy, this part of that reference is applicable:Theoretically, it also could mean that lesbian couples could give birth to a baby girl without the need for a father. Women do not carry the genetic information required to make a boy.So, for Mary, some Man had to impregnate her for her to be able to produce a boy.Interesting possibility though for women to be able to create another woman without a man, though. Men still can't create another man/boy because they don't have their own womb... unless maybe someday we can create something that does the same thing.Oh, I am sure there will be a great ruction over this. I can hear the moral purists howling in righteous indignation now !I think it's just nicer to be able to create either a boy or a girl. In heaven I'd liketo have at least a million of each, someday.I have heard Catholics say, "Mary mother of God". And for me this is like totally NOT OK! However, if people can tolerate my, goofy to them, Muslim bent, then the burden is on me to become more tolerant. I just learned the other day that us Mormons consider Jesus Christ to be the God of the OT. That's a head spinner for me.The word God can refer to a kind of being, rather than to just one person. It's true that we most often use the word God to refer to our Father in heaven, but Jesus is the same kind of being and thus he is God, too. And so is the Holy Ghost. And so are all of the rest of us, even though we're not as perfect as our kind of being can be, yet.Personally, I think that anyone who can create humans from mud and water, and some lightning and amonia, can pretty much do anything he wants to. I have issue with restricting the makeup of Heavenly Father to flesh and bone. Myself, I prefer MAC.We don't restrict. We include. Our bodies are composed of elements and those same elements are also in mud and water and lightning and ammonia and a lot of other things, too.I think it is quite laughable that we humans try to wax eloquently about matters they know nothing about, and in truth we know very little full stop.Some of us know more than others, but yeah that is kinda funny when people say things they don't know anything about. Edited May 30, 2013 by Ahab 1
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted May 30, 2013 Posted May 30, 2013 Don't have the time right now, but will look up the teaching on this subject that explains that if Mary was to have a child by and become a handmaiden of Heavenly Father then she had to have married Him.You are speaking on man and Jewish law...God married his daughter? If you not going to show where she was married in scripture...save your time, Iwill not be interested, is some man's opinion. 1) If Mary was impregnated by in-vitro fertilzation she would have still been a virgin, technically, and this is what most people accept as the way Mary became impregnated, anyway.2) Begotten simply refers to being parented by both a male and a female. One of her eggs had to be fertilized by a male because that's what it takes for our species to reproduce.That is what I said and wrote, the part about intercourse was what many friends have told me this is what they what they believe, so we are in total agreement.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted May 30, 2013 Posted May 30, 2013 Well, that is not actually correct. Two researchers have found a way to fertilize an egg with out sperm. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1431489.stmWhere do the other 13 genes come from?
BCSpace Posted May 30, 2013 Posted May 30, 2013 However, the so called main stream, right wing newsie opinion, I find to be equally off and distasteful, even repugnant.I find it to be more academically and realistically correct and actually in line with mainstream Islam.
EllenMaksoud Posted May 30, 2013 Author Posted May 30, 2013 You are speaking on man and Jewish law...God married his daughter? If you not going to show where she was married in scripture...save your time, Iwill not be interested, is some man's opinion. That is what I said and wrote, the part about intercourse was what many friends have told me this is what they what they believe, so we are in total agreement.I'm sorry, life is so deadly serious and stressful right now that I am engaging in a bit of comic relief and it is not my intention to be disrespectful at all.So, for me, God, Heavenly Father, Allah (Subhanna Wa Ta Alllah) is just to big in so many ways that I won't try to limit him to the rules of the universe as I understand it. Once in a while he reaches out and touches us in ways that we can understand, Please understand that I am not finding fault with anyone's explanations. For me I just have to provide an explanation for my own use that seems reasonable.
EllenMaksoud Posted May 30, 2013 Author Posted May 30, 2013 I find it to be more academically and realistically correct and actually in line with mainstream Islam.You know something of Islam (The True Path)? If you learned about Islam while dodging IED's and being shot at by criminals in Afghanistan, I am deeply sorry. I only met one dangerous Muslim, and him I reported to the FBI. On getting there, a woman came out and said, "We don't talk to the public." They complain about getting Muslims to report things, but then they will not talk to them. Sigh ! I am still in very many ways deeply Muslim.
Ahab Posted May 30, 2013 Posted May 30, 2013 I'm sorry, life is so deadly serious and stressful right now that I am engaging in a bit of comic relief and it is not my intention to be disrespectful at all.So, for me, God, Heavenly Father, Allah (Subhanna Wa Ta Alllah) is just to big in so many ways that I won't try to limit him to the rules of the universe as I understand it. Once in a while he reaches out and touches us in ways that we can understand, Please understand that I am not finding fault with anyone's explanations. For me I just have to provide an explanation for my own use that seems reasonable.I don't know why but some people have trouble accepting an idea of our Father as the same kind of being we are but who has become as perfect as we can possibly be. Like us, but perfect. Seems too many people want to think of him as something he isn't, as well as not think of him as what he really is. And some people don't even like to think of him as a he. Sheesh. It's really not that complicated.
EllenMaksoud Posted May 30, 2013 Author Posted May 30, 2013 Where do the other 13 genes come from?I am not a doctor am I? I am most certainly not Heavenly Father either.
EllenMaksoud Posted May 30, 2013 Author Posted May 30, 2013 I don't know why but some people have trouble accepting an idea of our Father as the same kind of being we are but who has become as perfect as we can possibly be. Like us, but perfect. Seems too many people want to think of him as something he isn't, as well as not think of him as what he really is. And some people don't even like to think of him as a he. Sheesh. It's really not that complicated.On that point we will have to agree to disagree. It's probably because I am a woman and weaker.
Ahab Posted May 30, 2013 Posted May 30, 2013 I am not a doctor am I? I am most certainly not Heavenly Father either. You're a part of him, though, just as you are also a part of your mortal parents going back generations and generations...
Ahab Posted May 30, 2013 Posted May 30, 2013 On that point we will have to agree to disagree. It's probably because I am a woman and weaker.Hah! I don't buy that for a minute. You're just not ready, yet. For some reason it does seem to take some women a long time to get ready.
EllenMaksoud Posted May 30, 2013 Author Posted May 30, 2013 You're a part of him, though, just as you are also a part of your mortal parents going back generations and generations...I'm sorry, right now I just need Heavenly Father to be so much more than I am so he can protect me and I can feel safe in his arms.
EllenMaksoud Posted May 30, 2013 Author Posted May 30, 2013 Hah! I don't buy that for a minute. You're just not ready, yet.For some reason it does seem to take some women a long time to get ready.Hah ! Touche ! We are just doing our best to drag around the load of "The Good Girl Syndrome". You guys just scrape your face, rub your head, throw on some jeans and a t shirt and your up for it.We have to apply some MAC, get hair that has a mind of its own bent to our will, carefully put on clothing that won't show through, find an outfit that matches (sometimes it takes three tries), and find shoes that we can walk in, or not, then check it all over again. Then we stand looking at the mirror and wonder if HE will like it and am I successful competition for those women who would like to steal you.
Stone holm Posted May 30, 2013 Posted May 30, 2013 Just had many friends over the years who think Elohiem had intercourse with Mary, which would men, "no virgin birth". The odd think is they would cite "Mormon Doctrine" (the book) where Bruce R, said that begotten means begotten and Christ was begotten like all me. The thing is he meant "seed". Under the topic of "Virgin Birth" he stated emphatically that, Christ was born to a virgin (Mary) and that any one or church who taught otherwise was (and I quote from memory) were "totally apostate and false!" We do far to much speculation and in so doing offend God...IMHO. Well, I am not going to go into the mechanics -- although I believe I recall some of the early Brethren did go into the mechanics. To me the "virgin birth" thing not that important, nor is it important to me how she was impregnated, but it would be against Church doctrine for her to merely have been a surrogate unwed mother.
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