Another High Priest Discussion

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I have never seen it before. I have been to many many wards and stakes.

Let me be more clear, I was the member of a very large Ward, at 31 I was ordained a High Priest, and mins later set apart as an assistant to the HPGL, 5 months later as the HPGL. Did that for five years until being called to the Bishopric. When I returned after three years to Priesthood; when in the Bishopric you have to go to young men's classes. There were men from Elder's Quorum who had gotten over 40, which is common to get older men who are still Elders come meet with us. Many held recommends, but after 10 years meeting with us were still Elders. Usually High Priests are ordained when there is a need. When some guys felt slighted, I would remind the that the Priesthood is lateral. In fact if an entire Bishopric is out of town the Elder's Quorum President presides over the Ward, not the HPGL...every High Priest group has one President, the Stake President, he is the only who has "keys" for the High Priests. The High Priest Quorum is every group in the Stake. It was a long time before a lot of friends who were ordained High Priests my age and only when there was a need. The group where I served was so big they gave me three assistants, I was so young and felt like a child in there. Heck 55 now and most are still older than me in my new Ward.

[urroner]

I"m pushing 60 and about a year ago, one of the members of the SP, pulled me out of the EQ and told me that SP wanted to me to attend the HPQ. I had been ducking this for a couple of years. I loved being in the EQ. I usually taught a lesson there every other month or so and the EQ really enjoyed it. Now I was being "forced" to go meet with the old men. It's okay. I end up teaching a lesson about once a month and I get some of the old men riled because I kind of push the envelope of "doctrine" and I use phrases a little differently than some of the HP use them.

I'm okay being in either. It doesn't bother me.

As far as being ordained a high priest one day, I'm not really concerned about being ordained a HP, in fact, I'd rather not be ordained a HP. I have the same priesthood, a HP doesn't have more priesthood than a lowly elder, it's the same priesthood. That's all that matters to me.

My 28 y/o son was ordained a HP when he was 24 and put in his ward's bishopric. He was finally released about three months ago and he has no desire to attend the HPQ. The next youngest HP is 15 years older than him, so he sneaks off to the EQ whenever he gets a chance. Actually, he's like his old man, he'd rather be interacting with the YM during priesthood and teaching them.

When he was ordained a HP, he lives in Australia, he called me up and mocked me, well, not really mocked me, but he just pointed out that he was a HP now and I was just simply an elder and that just proved that he was a better and holier man than me. I told him that the First Presidency had called me up before they decided to let him be a HP and stated that this wouldn't have happened, except there were only two men in his ward and they needed a third HP in the bishopric, so his calling wasn't inspiration, it was just desperation...or was that desecration. I can't remember which it was the FP said.

After being in the bishopric and a HP for about a half year, he called up and asked me if there was any precedent of a HP being unordained to an elder. I said the only case I could think of was when some HP had been exed, but when he had his priesthood restored, he was still a HP.

[ERayR]

To put young men out of Elders Quorum and into High Priests without them being ordained High Priests? And then after 3 years if they want they can be ordained High Priests and then start attending Elders Quorum again?

Nope I was talking about putting older men out of the Elders Quorum with the High Priests.

[Glenn101]

I don't know why I was asked to meet with the High Priests when I was in the XXXX XXXXXX ward. Why did they want me to meet with all of those old, gray haired men?

Glenn

Perhaps to keep matching hair color in the same group.

In the mode of The Wizard of Oz when he sais "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain", pay no attention to the man in the picture. Grecianj formula 16 did not work for him.

Oh, well, in my current ward, the High Priests and Elders meet together. There just are not enough active elders to have much of a meeting. Most of the elders have already been ordained as High Priests.

Glenn

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

To put young men out of Elders Quorum and into High Priests without them being ordained High Priests? And then after 3 years if they want they can be ordained High Priests and then start attending Elders Quorum again?

I've never seen this in 40 years

Did I miss someone saying that? Never seen that either.

[Five Solas]

Curious someone would aspire to the title, "high priest." Caiaphas, the high priest in the temple at Jerusalem, was one of the co-conspirators in the death of Jesus (John 18). Following Jesus death, another high priest had the apostles flogged (Acts 5) and Stephen murdered (Acts 7). If you're identified as a high priest in the New Testament--you're one of bad guys, no exception.

Of course, Hebrews tells us Jesus is the true and everlasting high priest who alone meets our need (Hebrews 7:25-27).

Seems like kind of a no win: By claiming to be a "high priest," you're aligning with the bad guys or you're pretending to be Jesus.

Anyone else find the title awkward?

--Erik

[tyler90az]

Curious someone would aspire to the title, "high priest." Caiaphas, the high priest in the temple at Jerusalem, was one of the co-conspirators in the death of Jesus (John 18). Following Jesus death, another high priest had the apostles flogged (Acts 5) and Stephen murdered (Acts 7). If you're identified as a high priest in the New Testament--you're one of bad guys, no exception.

Of course, Hebrews tells us Jesus is the true and everlasting high priest who alone meets our need (Hebrews 7:25-27).

Seems like kind of a no win: By claiming to be a "high priest," you're aligning with the bad guys or you're pretending to be Jesus.

Anyone else find the title awkward?

--Erik

Not really, what Priesthood titles can you receive in your church?

[Glenn101]

Curious someone would aspire to the title, "high priest." Caiaphas, the high priest in the temple at Jerusalem, was one of the co-conspirators in the death of Jesus (John 18). Following Jesus death, another high priest had the apostles flogged (Acts 5) and Stephen murdered (Acts 7). If you're identified as a high priest in the New Testament--you're one of bad guys, no exception.

Of course, Hebrews tells us Jesus is the true and everlasting high priest who alone meets our need (Hebrews 7:25-27).

Seems like kind of a no win: By claiming to be a "high priest," you're aligning with the bad guys or you're pretending to be Jesus.

Anyone else find the title awkward?

--Erik

It is evident that the high priests of whom Caiaphas was one, were called under the old covenant. Jesus is the mediator of a new and better covenant. (Hebrews, chapter Jesus is the High Priest and Apostle of our profession. (Hebrews 3:1) Nowhere does it say that Christ was/is the last High Priest or Apostle. In fact, apostles were called after Jesus had left them, Paul being one. Since apostles must first be ordained as high priests, there is no problem there.

Glenn

[Five Solas]

Since apostles must first be ordained as high priests...

Glenn

CFR, please

--Erik

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Curious someone would aspire to the title, "high priest." Caiaphas, the high priest in the temple at Jerusalem, was one of the co-conspirators in the death of Jesus (John 18). Following Jesus death, another high priest had the apostles flogged (Acts 5) and Stephen murdered (Acts 7). If you're identified as a high priest in the New Testament--you're one of bad guys, no exception.

Of course, Hebrews tells us Jesus is the true and everlasting high priest who alone meets our need (Hebrews 7:25-27).

Seems like kind of a no win: By claiming to be a "high priest," you're aligning with the bad guys or you're pretending to be Jesus.

Anyone else find the title awkward?

--Erik

Bit of exaduration, is it not. That was two examples out of 1000's of Israelies. Edited May 18, 2013 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

CFR, please

--Erik

An Apostle is a High Priest, ever though addressed as Elder. High Priests preside over the entire Church. Edited April 30, 2013 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Glenn101]

CFR, please

--Erik

Doctrine and Covenants 84:63 And as I said unto mine apostles, even so I say unto you, for you are mine apostles, even God’s high priests; ye are they whom my Father hath given me; ye are my friends;

Also, section 102 of the Doctrine and Covenants details the setting up of the Council of the Twelve Apostles, from among the high priests.

Glenn

Edited April 29, 2013 by Glenn101

[Avatar4321]

I dont think men should be made high priests unless the Lord calls them to be. I have no problem being an Elder in my old age if that''s what the Lord requires of me. I would not want to be made a high priests just because I was a certain age if the Lord didn't inspire them to make the call.

Of course, Im also of the opinion that that quorums should meet together regardless of age. For example, Ive always asked why singles wards dont organize their priests quorum unless they are just so inactive they can't. I am not going to question the inspiration of the Lord, but maybe we are losing a valuable resources when we move them up based on age instead of callings

http://www.lds.org/manual/only-an-elder/only-an-elder?lang=eng

Edited April 30, 2013 by Avatar4321

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I dont think men should be made high priests unless the Lord calls them to be. I have no problem being an Elder in my old age if that''s what the Lord requires of me. I would not want to be made a high priests just because I was a certain age if the Lord didn't inspire them to make the call.

Of course, Im also of the opinion that that quorums should meet together regardless of age. For example, Ive always asked why singles wards dont organize their priests quorum unless they are just so inactive they can't. I am not going to question the inspiration of the Lord, but maybe we are losing a valuable resources when we move them up based on age instead of callings

http://www.lds.org/manual/only-an-elder/only-an-elder?lang=eng

"Priest Quorum exists no matter how many Priests active are otherwise,because there is always a least one member, The Bishop who is the President of the quorum. Edited May 1, 2013 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Glenn101]

"Priest Quorum exists no matter how many Priests active are otherwise,because there is always a least one member, The Bishop who is the President of the quorum.

Unless you are in a branch.

Glenn

[Avatar4321]

"Priest Quorum exists no matter how many Priests active are otherwise,because there is always a least one member, The Bishop who is the President of the quorum.

I know.

[Five Solas]

Doctrine and Covenants 84:63 And as I said unto mine apostles, even so I say unto you, for you are mine apostles, even God’s high priests; ye are they whom my Father hath given me; ye are my friends;

Also, section 102 of the Doctrine and Covenants details the setting up of the Council of the Twelve Apostles, from among the high priests.

Glenn

Appreciate the effort, Glenn101

Would you go so far as to suggest the Apostle Paul was really a high priest? If so, his response to the charge of insulting God's high priest in Acts 23 makes little sense (he acknowledges, "I am a Pharisee" but says nada about being a high priest himself).

Please elaborate, if you can.

--Erik

[Glenn101]

Appreciate the effort, Glenn101

Would you go so far as to suggest the Apostle Paul was really a high priest? If so, his response to the charge of insulting God's high priest in Acts 23 makes little sense (he acknowledges, "I am a Pharisee" but says nada about being a high priest himself).

Please elaborate, if you can.

--Erik

Paul most certainly was not a high priest called after the Jewish tradition. He may have been called as a Christian High Priest.

Glenn

[Five Solas]

Paul most certainly was not a high priest called after the Jewish tradition. He may have been called as a Christian High Priest.

Glenn

We're in agreement on the first part. But as I pointed out previously, there's no such thing as a positive example of a high priest in the New Testament. They're all bad guys, opposed to Christ and the Apostles. So the words "Christian High Priest" seem a bit funny. Do you have anything to substantiate your claim, besides passages from Joseph Smith's Doctrine and Covenants?

--Erik

[19nazzy]

In my home ward growing up, the EQ and HP met together as a group. I'm assuming it was because we had very few Elders.

[Glenn101]

We're in agreement on the first part. But as I pointed out previously, there's no such thing as a positive example of a high priest in the New Testament. They're all bad guys, opposed to Christ and the Apostles. So the words "Christian High Priest" seem a bit funny. Do you have anything to substantiate your claim, besides passages from Joseph Smith's Doctrine and Covenants?

--Erik

There is no positive thing about High Priests is the New Testament because the stories are about high priests called according to the Mosaic law.

The Doctrine and Covenants is all I need. It is accepted as scripture by believing LDS. And, this is an LDS board, in name anyway.

Glenn

[Five Solas]

There is no positive thing about High Priests in the New Testament because the stories are about high priests called according to the Mosaic law.

The Doctrine and Covenants is all I need. It is accepted as scripture by believing LDS. And, this is an LDS board, in name anyway.

Glenn

Appreciate your patience with this line of questioning Glenn. I'm intrigued a member of the LDS Church (which I assume you are) would suggest there's anything inherently problematic with "high priests called according to the Mosaic law." Wouldn't Mosaic law include exactly the sort of "priesthood keys" Joseph Smith claimed to have restored? And yet you write there's something wrong with high priests called this way--that it explains the consistently negative portrayals of high priests in the New Testament.

For what it's worth, I'm probably not the only one left scratching his head.

--Erik

[volgadon]

Curious someone would aspire to the title, "high priest." Caiaphas, the high priest in the temple at Jerusalem, was one of the co-conspirators in the death of Jesus (John 18). Following Jesus death, another high priest had the apostles flogged (Acts 5) and Stephen murdered (Acts 7). If you're identified as a high priest in the New Testament--you're one of bad guys, no exception.

Of course, Hebrews tells us Jesus is the true and everlasting high priest who alone meets our need (Hebrews 7:25-27).

Seems like kind of a no win: By claiming to be a "high priest," you're aligning with the bad guys or you're pretending to be Jesus.

While the two individuals mentioned in the New Testament were infamous, the office of high priest itself was held in highest regard. That is what the NT shows. Paul insisted on honouring the bearer, in spite of his treatment at the high priest's hands. The author of the Gospel of John depicts Caiaphas as able to propehsy truly, despite his villainy.

http://calba-savua.blogspot.com/2011/01/prophetic-high-priest.html

[Five Solas]

While the two individuals mentioned in the New Testament were infamous, the office of high priest itself was held in highest regard. That is what the NT shows. Paul insisted on honouring the bearer, in spite of his treatment at the high priest's hands. The author of the Gospel of John depicts Caiaphas as able to propehsy truly, despite his villainy.

http://calba-savua.b...igh-priest.html

Balaam had his moments as well. Not sure what you're hoping to demonstrate here, volgadon. If by "honouring the bearer" you're referring to Acts 23:5, well, that's kind of awkward, isn't it?

--Erik

[volgadon]

Balaam had his moments as well. Not sure what you're hoping to demonstrate here, volgadon. If by "honouring the bearer" you're referring to Acts 23:5, well, that's kind of awkward, isn't it?

--Erik

Right, that is exactly the chapter I had in mind. Paul respects the office of high priest, despite being ill-treated in a manner that was against the law of Moses