Looking For The Cross In All The Wrong Places

[Bernard Gui]

I was at BYU when the ban was started, and I was one who had to cut the shrub. Before the Vietnam/hippie movement, not a lot of men wore beards. I wore mine because I like the beatnik scene. By the mid/late 60s, the beard had become a token of rebellion against authority and society, not so much Castro. But who would want to emulate Castro?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I was at BYU when the ban was started, and I was one who had to cut the shrub. I wore mine because I like the beatnik scene. The beard had become a token of rebellion against authority and society, not so much Castro. But who would want to emulate Castro?

There is no ban on facial hair...except a Church School, excluding staff. And you cannot be a Temple worker, but you serve in the Temple as proxy. I saw one post where if we were told to have a beard, CA would what an exception from the Prophet. Prophets don't get involved in such things. Only a missionary would need any such exception. That would be so outside the authority of a Prophet to tell someone they could not have a beard, there are thinks they speak of that is what they think to be best to identify us from the world. Tattoos, beard, women wearing pants...these are not revelations from The Lord, just opinions from leaders. In Christ's day it social, in the early church it was...then Prophets started being clean shaven, so many thought we should emulate them. Now the way we dress in the Temple a commandment, being clean shave is not. Due my surgery and nerve damage to my fave I haveI had a series of a beards, served as HPGL, in Bishopric, Ward Mission Leader, Gospel Doctrine Teacher, Gospel Principles Teacher. In the Bishopric I always wore suits and whites shirts. Still wear Suits some of the time, but I love dark blues, red, yellow and green ones. I have known Bishop who have exceeding their authority who will not let young Priests bless the Sacrament, after 8 of the years I carried Church Handbook could not find such a requirement. I tell you a fact, if President Monson conducted Conference in a blue shirt, every blue shirt in SLC would be gone from the shelves by the following Sunday.

And to get back to the Cross, it also not a comment not to wear a Cross, just taught that we do not need to to be Christian and if we chose to we do not need to repent or see the Bishop, as I have pointed out because so like things around my neck, but if that were not a the case and my parents had given me, I would wear and be cool with it.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

The physical sign of the cross was not used at all in the early New Testament church to identify Christians after Christ died. In fact, it was not used as a Christian symbol until sometime during the 4th or 5th century. See

http://www.mb-soft.com/believe/txn/cross.htm

Does that mean for the first 400 years after Christ, people who called themselves Christians were not really Christians?

Interesting scripture from the Book of Mormon:

"For it is better that ye should deny yourselves of these things, wherein ye will take up your cross, than that ye should be cast into hell." (3 Nep 12:30)

Actually I think is was earlier when Emperor Constantine of Rome became Christian had a dream before going to war to win under the symbol of the cross. Edited May 1, 2013 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[wenglund]

Maybe part of the reason that people are looking for the cross in all the wrong places is because the cross is really a post/stake? ;/

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Maybe part of the reason that people are looking for the cross in all the wrong places is because the cross is really a post/stake? ;/

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

That is a Jehovah Witness position. More like a tree which was used by the Romans, but I do doubt the cross was the perfect shape as displayed by most.

[Mike Reed]

That is a Jehovah Witness position. More like a tree which was used by the Romans, but I do doubt the cross was the perfect shape as displayed by most.

Hey PaPa. Never mind Wade. The cross resembled the tav/tau, whether T or + (probably the former)... not a mere verticle stake, contrary to what Wade or Jehovah's witnesses may think.

[why me]

What happened on the cross of Christ is of infinite and eternal importance. Let's wake up on this one and close the breach.

I don't think that anyone said otherwise. Rather we are talking about the cross as a symbol that should be worn around necks or put on church buildings. One can wear the cross inside out and carry the cross within us as we remember the atonement. However, the idea of celebrating a living christ is quite nice, I think.

[why me]

I'm a LDS convert of 36 years and I was always taught that the sacrifice made by Christ as an atonement for our sins was actually performed in the Garden of Gethsemane when he "sweated blood from every pore". His actual death on the cross sealed the atonement, but dying wasn't the great gift. Anyone could die for another, and many have made that sacrifice. As commendable as it is, only Christ could "take upon him the sins of the world". I find it interesting that the emphasis is on the object of his mortal death for many religions. Although I can't think of any other object that would more adequately symbolize the atonement. Especially since no one really knows the form of agony it required for Jesus. Since it did involve the sins of the whole world, it is a wonder to me how his mortal body even survived the atonement to get to the point of being hung on the cross. Must have been the God part of his parental heritage.

You made some good points in your post. I think that the cross has become the symbol of his sacrifice and suffering. However, we have two symbols at play. The catholic symbol of christ nailed to the cross and the more protestant symbol of just the cross. I believe that the lds have chosen an original way to celebrate the living christ. For the lds the cross is important as Bernard has shown in his original post. But the lds choose not to use it as a symbol of worship or as a symbol of their christianity.

[why me]

Symbols matter.

Symbols matter because they serve as a focal point for belief. Various movements have used various symbols to show what is central to their belief system. For lds, the temple is a symbol of heavenly father's home and if one is worthy, can enter it in peace and harmony and righteousness. The temple is such a symbol of holiness.

Edited May 8, 2013 by why me

[why me]

Not to derail, but if anything is wrong with men having beards in Church, does not say much for our first Prophets 2-7

Beards are optional. In many wards men are wearing beards without a problem. I have seen bishops, branch presidents wearing beards without a problem. I have no idea where this is a problem outside the mormon corridor.I also think that many male members in europe do have beards. No problem if one wishes to wear one.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Beards are optional. In many wards men are wearing beards without a problem. I have seen bishops, branch presidents wearing beards without a problem. I have no idea where this is a problem outside the mormon corridor.I also think that many male members in europe do have beards. No problem if one wishes to wear one.

I have noted that the further you get from the flagpole the less important some thing s come. It Ian old military term but fits.