Getting Eternal Life

[canard78]

Why is a recommend needed at all? What if I serve people as much as I can without being a Mormon?

You're not going to get a particularly "orthodox" answer from me... but... I think you're fine.

I need the structures of Mormonism to enable and facilitate my service to others. Mormonism is a vehicle for travelling the path back to the Lamb. I think it's a very effective vehicle. Maybe if you tried it you'd find it was also effective. But maybe it wouldn't be. I recognise that many people can achieve the same outcome with a different vehicle. It's fairly clear to me that the world is full of lots of effective vehicles.

So why do I need a recommend? I love attending the temple and how close it makes me feel to God and the service to my ancestors. I love the standards I'm asked to live in order to attend. I love the sanctity of the place based on the outside influences that are kept out. I appreciate the fact that living these standards helps me to better keep the two great commandments.

[Calm]

Logically speaking, if one couldn't receive eternal life without being a member of the LDS Church, God wasn't being very nice the way he has set it up so that only a very small percentage of the entire human race for its existence has had the chance to be LDS or one of the previous Saint communities that have existed over the eons of man's existence.

And since I believe God is very loving and generous, that logically means that membership at least in this life is not generally essential in order to receive eternal life.

[canard78]

Logically speaking, if one couldn't receive eternal life without being a member of the LDS Church, God wasn't being very nice the way he has set it up so that only a very small percentage of the entire human race for its existence has had the chance to be LDS or one of the previous Saint communities that have existed over the eons of man's existence.

And since I believe God is very loving and generous, that logically means that membership at least in this life is not generally essential in order to receive eternal life.

I think Mormon theology agrees with you.

I like this from Joseph Smith:

“Our heavenly Father is more liberal in His views, and boundless in His mercies and blessings, than we are ready to believe or receive..."

Quoted by Jeffrey R. Holland in General Conference Oct 2003

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2 ... d?lang=eng

[Calm]

I think Mormon theology agrees with you.

I think so too.

[Tacenda]

Ok will someone explain to me something? Growing up in the church I was taught that one will only live with God in the highest kingdom. Are people being vague about this teaching. I'm tired of having no clear answers in the church. This is either true or not. Yes we are saved by Grace alone but through ordinances in the temple is how we'll see God, or is this wrong teaching?

[Questing Beast]

...

Maybe I should ask this a different way. I'm trusting Christ's power to get eternal life, but I'm also following His commandments. I'm waiting till marriage to have sex. I'm a naturally calm person, so I never use profanity and I very rarely get mad. I don't lie, cheat or steal for various reasons. I don't even drink alcohol or caffeine because they don't appeal to me. By the world's standard, I live a pretty boring life. I'm not a Mormon, but have faith in Christ and I follow His commandments. So as long as I endure to the end like this why wouldn't I get eternal life, the best God has to offer in heaven?

I am a "heretic", and what I believe is yet in line with Mormon doctrine. Yes, nobody has the power to get anything eternal for themselves. "God" gives all, "life, the universe and everything". We get nothing without "God" providing it, period.

The most important, core, doctrine defining "worthiness" is "never lie to yourself". This is true for everyone regardless of religious trappings.

So, if you live according to your current "inner light", regardless of how dim or bright it happens to be, IMHO, you are in exactly the same blessed state of "worthiness" as the rest who do not willingly, knowingly lie to themselves. And if your inner light tells you to live a certain way, being true to your ethics because they feel right, then whatever "God" has on offer vis-a-vis "eternal life", "exaltation", "salvation", "redemption", etc. and etc., will be given to you along with all those who adhere to a strict religious paradigm, or no religious association whatsoever.

If "God" in fact requires "saving ordinances" to get to live as exalted, immortal beings in "his" presence forever, and in fact we want to live that way forever, then the ordinances will be offered and received, I have no doubt. There is no time limit on any of this, no "window of opportunity", just existence everlasting, proceeding on toward more light as we learn from our mistakes and are disabused of our ignorance. Religion creates a venue to focus more intensely/effectively(?) on that ignorance and eradicate it as we hope more intensely for "God's help", through living a worthy life, i.e. one defined by its required set of commandments. And Mormon commandments, while perhaps not as numerous as many, are still more numerous than most, in requiring obedience to a lot of dogmatic things. Mormons get caught up in doing/being a certain way, and define "worthiness" accordingly, by outward signs of it. But the truth must be that only "God" knows worthiness, and "God" will tell everyone individually if they are "worthy" or not. I feel worthy when I don't flee from my better instincts, i.e. when I act selflessly instead of selfishly. It is a constant battle....

[canard78]

I am a "heretic", and what I believe is yet in line with Mormon doctrine. Yes, nobody has the power to get anything eternal for themselves. "God" gives all, "life, the universe and everything". We get nothing without "God" providing it, period.

The most important, core, doctrine defining "worthiness" is "never lie to yourself". This is true for everyone regardless of religious trappings.

So, if you live according to your current "inner light", regardless of how dim or bright it happens to be, IMHO, you are in exactly the same blessed state of "worthiness" as the rest who do not willingly, knowingly lie to themselves. And if your inner light tells you to live a certain way, being true to your ethics because they feel right, then whatever "God" has on offer vis-a-vis "eternal life", "exaltation", "salvation", "redemption", etc. and etc., will be given to you along with all those who adhere to a strict religious paradigm, or no religious association whatsoever.

If "God" in fact requires "saving ordinances" to get to live as exalted, immortal beings in "his" presence forever, and in fact we want to live that way forever, then the ordinances will be offered and received, I have no doubt. There is no time limit on any of this, no "window of opportunity", just existence everlasting, proceeding on toward more light as we learn from our mistakes and are disabused of our ignorance. Religion creates a venue to focus more intensely/effectively(?) on that ignorance and eradicate it as we hope more intensely for "God's help", through living a worthy life, i.e. one defined by its required set of commandments. And Mormon commandments, while perhaps not as numerous as many, are still more numerous than most, in requiring obedience to a lot of dogmatic things. Mormons get caught up in doing/being a certain way, and define "worthiness" accordingly, by outward signs of it. But the truth must be that only "God" knows worthiness, and "God" will tell everyone individually if they are "worthy" or not. I feel worthy when I don't flee from my better instincts, i.e. when I act selflessly instead of selfishly. It is a constant battle....

I enjoyed this QB. Either I'm becoming a heretic or you're less heretical than you think.

[Calm]

Ok will someone explain to me something? Growing up in the church I was taught that one will only live with God in the highest kingdom. Are people being vague about this teaching. I'm tired of having no clear answers in the church. This is either true or not. Yes we are saved by Grace alone but through ordinances in the temple is how we'll see God, or is this wrong teaching?

Celestial

“They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized, … that by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit.” These are they who overcome the world by their faith. They are just and true so that the Holy Ghost can seal their blessings upon them. (See D&C 76:51–53.) Those who inherit the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, who become gods, must also have been married for eternity in the temple (see D&C 131:1–4). All who inherit the celestial kingdom will live with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ forever (see D&C 76:62).

Through the work we do in temples, all people who have lived on the earth can have an equal opportunity to receive the fulness of the gospel and the ordinances of salvation so they can inherit a place in the highest degree of celestial glory.

http://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-46-the-final-judgment?lang=eng

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I am reminded of Abraham. He was the subject of a quite recent Conference talk. Abraham was doing something more than mere belief. And it was counted to him as righteousness. In fact an Angle had to intervien other wise Issac would have been killed.

[danielwoods]

In summary, the belief that John is talking about is not a mere pronouncement or acknowledgment of His existence. Many have done that with their lips, and yet their hearts are far from Him. The belief on the name of Christ that John speaks of is the taking of his name upon us through belief in and obedience to His word in demonstration of our love for Him and to "assure our hearts before him" .

We agree. Yet the question is if what John states is true, 1 John 5:^{13 "}These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life..."

Then we who are believers know and have assurance that we have eternal life, right now. There's no doubt, no waiting, no enduring, no worry. Right?

[Akboy]

You're not going to get a particularly "orthodox" answer from me... but... I think you're fine.

I need the structures of Mormonism to enable and facilitate my service to others. Mormonism is a vehicle for travelling the path back to the Lamb. I think it's a very effective vehicle. Maybe if you tried it you'd find it was also effective. But maybe it wouldn't be. I recognise that many people can achieve the same outcome with a different vehicle. It's fairly clear to me that the world is full of lots of effective vehicles.

So how do you reconcile the idea of a variety of vehicles with Jesus's warning?

Matt. 7

¹³ “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. ¹⁴ For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Jesus also made it clear some people will think they are on the right path or in a good vehicle, yet they will be forced to depart from Christ and go to the eternal fire.

Logically speaking, if one couldn't receive eternal life without being a member of the LDS Church, God wasn't being very nice the way he has set it up so that only a very small percentage of the entire human race for its existence has had the chance to be LDS or one of the previous Saint communities that have existed over the eons of man's existence.

And since I believe God is very loving and generous, that logically means that membership at least in this life is not generally essential in order to receive eternal life.

Many LDS sources are very clear this mortal life is a test for us, and without the test, we could not progress to exaltation/eternal life. So which is it? Are you saying we can basically ignore God's plan of a test in this life and the make-up test in the next life will be good enough?

[pogi]

You also have to take the whole verse into account, not just the term 'believe.' John is saying 'If you believe in Christ, can know now you have eternal life.' The greek word for 'know' in the verse means to know now. If my eternal life was dependent on whether or not I obeyed and endured to the end, then I couldn't know now I have eternal life.

Just to clarify, we are agreed on the first part that belief without love is not sufficient to inherit eternal life?

In the second part of this verse, we also have to take into account the rest of scripture for a proper understanding:

Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that doeth evil…(Rom 2:6-9)

That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord (Rom 5:21).

...we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (Titus 3:7).

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved (Matt 24:12-13).

These verses emphasize the need of a life long belief and love through obedience to obtain salvation. John is correct in saying that we may know now that we have eternal life through life long belief and obedience to His word. The question is, will we endure? Until we actually stand before the judgment seat of Christ, we can only have a hope of eternal life as Paul says. A hope which will become a reality through an enduring belief and obedience to the law by which will be judged. Even if we can and do have an assurance of eternal life now, that does not mean that we will have that same assurance tomorrow if our "love wax's cold", as Christ put it.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in the body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men…(2 Cor 5:10-11)

…as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified…In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel (Rom 2:16)

Jesus wasn't giving a sermon on how we are saved. He was responding to some very specific issues He saw in the young ruler. Since His statements were directed at a specific individual, we need to be very careful when we try to apply them to everyone else. We can't just take them at face value and apply them to all believers.

I don't see this as a valid argument for the following reasons:

1) Very few of Christ's words and teachings actually made it into the modern Bible. Those which did make it (this actually made it into all of the synoptic gospels) were considered especially important in establishing doctrine, whether they were teachings to individuals or sermons to large crowds.

2) This scripture was not written for that young man. It was written for the church to understand the teachings of Christ.

3) Unless you are willing to disregard almost all of the teachings in the gospels, as only a very small percentage were actual sermons to the general church or public, you must accept this also as applicable to you.

4) I read your link. I agree that this was a lesson about money and greed. I disagree that Christ would have lied to the man to teach us a lesson about money and greed. Why didn't Christ just say believe in me for salvation and give to the poor for perfection? Either this man was lied to, or he was being held to a higher standard than the rest of the world. This doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not suggesting you judge my worthiness. I'm just asking if you believe it's possible to get eternal life without being a member of the LDS church.

Yes, it is possible to die without baptism and receive exaltation for those who do not have or understand the law.

Edited April 8, 2013 by pogi

[pogi]

We agree. Yet the question is if what John states is true, 1 John 5:^{13 "}These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life..."

Then we who are believers know and have assurance that we have eternal life, right now. There's no doubt, no waiting, no enduring, no worry. Right?

Please see my last response to Akboy.

Edited April 9, 2013 by pogi

[Akboy]

Just to clarify, we are agreed on the first part that belief without love is not sufficient to inherit eternal life?

As you already pointed out, there's two kinds of belief. There's 'belief that,' an intellectual belief which even the devils have. And there's 'belief in,' which involves trust and devotion. Obviously, John is talking about the latter kind of belief. True belief in that sense without love is impossible. The problem with 'belief without love' is not the lack of love, it's the wrong kind of belief.

In the second part of this verse, we also have to take into account the rest of scripture for a proper understanding:

Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that doeth evil…(Rom 2:6-9)

You can't take into account the rest of scripture just by highlighting a few verse that seem to fit your point, especially with Paul's letters. His teachings are often long trains of thought that build on themselves. So we have to follow this train.

Rom 2: We will be judged according to our deeds and we will be justified IF we followed the law (v. 12-13).

Rom 3: But no one follows the law. No one is righteous. No human will ever be justified by works of the law (v 20). The righteousness of God will be manifested not by us following the law, which is impossible, but by us having faith apart from the law (v 27-28). If we're supposed to exercise our faith by follow God's law, why does Paul make a striking distinction, multiple times, between faith and works of the law?

Rom 4: Those who continue to focus on the law aren't becoming more righteous, they're just adding to their debt (v 4). Righteousness comes through belief and faith for those who do NOT try to gain righteousness through the law (v 5). Again, if we're supposed to follow the law to build our own righteousness, why does Paul say the faithful who do not work will be counted as righteousness?

Rom 5: Since we are justified by faith (apart from works), we have peace with God (v 1). How can we have peace with God if we constantly have to focus on the law and our own righteousness? Faith and grace are very closely linked (v 2), and since faith is apart from works, wouldn't the same be true of grace?

That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord (Rom 5:21).

It looks like you're implying that verse is saying our righteousness, based on us following laws, leads to eternal life. But that doesn't make sense in this train of thought. The righteousness comes through faith, apart from works. It's not our righteousness, it's Christ's. Follow the train to the next verse.

Rom 6: So should we continue in sin that grace may abound? May it never be (v 1-2)! Why did Paul feel the need to say this? 5:21 was the verse right before this, so if it really meant we need to focus on living righteous lives, why would he say we shouldn't sin that grace may abound? If Paul was really preaching on the need to live righteous lives, why would he say 'This doesn't mean you should sin all you want and let grace cover it'? What is he talking about?

Paul continues the rest of the chapter admonishing believers to not sin, but he doesn't say anything like 'If you keep sinning, you won't get eternal life.' The only time he mentions eternal life in the chapter is v 23, and he says it's a gift, and the greek word for 'gift' means "a favor with which one receives without any merit of his own." So even in the chapter where Paul is actually telling us to not sin, eternal life is described as something we get not because of anything we do.

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved (Matt 24:12-13).

Look at the rest of that chapter. The disciples were asking about Christ's second coming, the end of the age. Christ mentions tribulation and the abomination of desolation. He's not talking about doctrines that apply to all people at all times. He's talking about end times, events surrounding the rapture. The word saved can have a variety of meanings, including being saved from mortal danger. There's no reason to apply the statement to the doctrine of salvation and justification.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Akboy

[pogi]

As you already pointed out, there's two kinds of belief. There's 'belief that,' an intellectual belief which even the devils have. And there's 'belief in,' which involves trust and devotion. Obviously, John is talking about the latter kind of belief. True belief in that sense without love is impossible. The problem with 'belief without love' is not the lack of love, it's the wrong kind of belief.

Right, it's impossible to have true belief without true love, just as it is impossible to have true love without true obedience as John pointed out: "This is the love of God, that we keep his commandments" (1 John 5:3) and as Christ pointed out: "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Rom 3: But no one follows the law. No one is righteous. No human will ever be justified by works of the law (v 20). The righteousness of God will be manifested not by us following the law, which is impossible, but by us having faith apart from the law (v 27-28). If we're supposed to exercise our faith by follow God's law, why does Paul make a striking distinction, multiple times, between faith and works of the law?

Exactly, no one follows the law (perfectly), and no one will ever be justified by works of the law. That's why we need grace. Paul does make a distinction between faith and works. Works are not faith, and faith is not works, but He clearly emphasizes the necessity of both saying that we are justified by faith, but need love God through obedience to the commandments. He is careful to point out that salvation is not any merit of our own through works. I agree.

"For as the body without works is dead, so faith without works is dead." (James 2:2226) Paul looks at what goes on internally; James talks about the external results. Paul says, "We're saved by faith." James says, "This is what saving faith looks like." Paul emphasizes that works alone are dead, and James emphasizes that faith alone is dead. But together they are as a living being with body and spirit.

Edited April 9, 2013 by pogi

[pogi]

Rom 5: Since we are justified by faith (apart from works), we have peace with God (v 1). How can we have peace with God if we constantly have to focus on the law and our own righteousness? Faith and grace are very closely linked (v 2), and since faith is apart from works, wouldn't the same be true of grace?

I do not constantly focus on the law, instead I give my attention to God. I think this is what Paul was trying to say. The law comes as second nature when we are more concerned about our relationship with God than living in fear of doing wrong. There is no greater peace than that which comes through attention to God. Hence we are admonished to keep an eye single to Him, to always have a prayer in our hearts, to always remember Him, etc. This is not a burden but a blessing.

Yes, grace is not the merit of works, but works are the merit of faith.

This is the way I see it:

Works alone are like living the letter of the law only (like many of the Jews in the time of Christ).

Faith alone is like living in spite of, or disregard toward the law (demonstrating an unchanged heart).

Faith which abounds in good works, comes by the grace of God through the changed heart.

Edited April 9, 2013 by pogi

[Akboy]

Right, it's impossible to have true belief without true love, just as it is impossible to have true love without true obedience as John pointed out: "This is the love of God, that we keep his commandments" (1 John 5:3) and as Christ pointed out: "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

So the motivation for following the commandments is loving God, not getting eternal life. Neither one says 'If you want eternal life, keep my commandments.'

Exactly, no one follows the law (perfectly), and no one will ever be justified by works of the law. That's why we need grace. Paul does make a distinction between faith and works. Works are not faith, and faith is not works, but He clearly emphasizes the necessity of both saying that we are justified by faith, but need love God through obedience to the commandments. He is careful to point out that salvation is not any merit of our own through works. I agree.

Where does Paul say we need to love God through obedience to the commandments?

If he's saying works are necessary, why does he keep talking about faith apart from works? Did you miss Rom. 4:5? But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness. Where's the necessity of works?

"For as the body without works is dead, so faith without works is dead." (James 2:2226) Paul looks at what goes on internally; James talks about the external results. Paul says, "We're saved by faith." James says, "This is what saving faith looks like." Paul emphasizes that works alone are dead, and James emphasizes that faith alone is dead. But together they are as a living being with body and spirit.

There's a big difference between saying 'A living faith will produce works' and saying 'You must follow the laws and ordinances of the gospel and endure to the end or you won't get eternal life.'

I do not constantly focus on the law, instead I give my attention to God. I think this is what Paul was trying to say. The law comes as second nature when we are more concerned about our relationship with God than living in fear of doing wrong. There is no greater peace than that which comes through attention to God. Hence we are admonished to keep an eye single to Him, to always have a prayer in our hearts, to always remember Him, etc. This is not a burden but a blessing.

What about the LDS church in general? The whole purpose of this mortal life is a test so we can progress, right? And the only way to progress is to follow the laws and ordinances of the gospel, follow God's commandments and endure to the end.

Yes, grace is not the merit of works, but works are the merit of faith.

This is the way I see it:

Works alone are like living the letter of the law only (like many of the Jews in the time of Christ).

Faith alone is like living in spite of, or disregard toward the law (demonstrating an unchanged heart).

Faith which abounds in good works, comes by the grace of God through the changed heart.

If someone claims to have faith, but acts like they have an unchanged heart, what do you tell them? Preaching about laws and enduring to the end won't help, it might even further warp his idea of what a living faith looks like.

[volgadon]

Where does Paul say we need to love God through obedience to the commandments?

Love without obedience would have been unthinkable to someone in Paul's world.

[Avatar4321]

Have you asked the Lord about this?

[volgadon]

"An action has intrinsic meaning; its value to the world is independent of what it means to the person performing it. The act of giving food to a helpless child is meaningful regardless of whether or not the moral intention is present. God asks for the heart, and we must spell out our answer in terms of deeds."

- Abraham Joshua Heschel, "Between God and Man: An Interpretation of Judaism," p. 157.

[Maidservant]

Being obedient and participating . . . . qualify us

Hmmm . . . interesting . . .

To the OP:

What is eternal life? or what do you think eternal life is to the LDS? What does it actually look like on a day-to-day basis for someone experiencing this kind of life?

Functionally--everyone WILL be "Mormon". That is, the proxy work (i.e. baptism, etc) will have been done for EVERYONE. Who is it that is not going to be "Mormon" after all that is done? (The use of the term Mormon is not really the best way to think of this--rather, everyone will have their priesthood covenants with Christ; but since you've phrased it using "Mormon", I have also.)

So everyone who experiences eternal life WILL be "Mormon" by virtue of all the proxy baptisms.

But it also depends on your definition of eternal life, but I'm assuming you are referring to whatever the fullest potential a human being has available to him or her in immortality.

Again--you live an awesome life. You get to the "other side". You meet your Savior. He says, Well done thou good and faithful servant. He says, I set up my church on earth through Joseph Smith and his successors. And your baptism is required by proper priesthood authority. You say, Oh, ok, I didn't know that before, or wasn't quite sure. He says, That's ok, we'll get it done by proxy and then you're all set.

So the question isn't whether some people in eternity will or won't be "Mormon" (i.e. having had an authorized baptism). Because we all will be, after all is said and done.

The question becomes, Why does anyone need a baptism? What does it do?

[Tacenda]

Hmmm . . . interesting . . .

To the OP:

What is eternal life? or what do you think eternal life is to the LDS? What does it actually look like on a day-to-day basis for someone experiencing this kind of life?

Functionally--everyone WILL be "Mormon". That is, the proxy work (i.e. baptism, etc) will have been done for EVERYONE. Who is it that is not going to be "Mormon" after all that is done? (The use of the term Mormon is not really the best way to think of this--rather, everyone will have their priesthood covenants with Christ; but since you've phrased it using "Mormon", I have also.)

So everyone who experiences eternal life WILL be "Mormon" by virtue of all the proxy baptisms.

But it also depends on your definition of eternal life, but I'm assuming you are referring to whatever the fullest potential a human being has available to him or her in immortality.

Again--you live an awesome life. You get to the "other side". You meet your Savior. He says, Well done thou good and faithful servant. He says, I set up my church on earth through Joseph Smith and his successors. And your baptism is required by proper priesthood authority. You say, Oh, ok, I didn't know that before, or wasn't quite sure. He says, That's ok, we'll get it done by proxy and then you're all set.

So the question isn't whether some people in eternity will or won't be "Mormon" (i.e. having had an authorized baptism). Because we all will be, after all is said and done.

The question becomes, Why does anyone need a baptism? What does it do?

Everything hinges on the necessity of baptism by the right Priesthood authority, without that need then there would be no need for baptisms for the dead.

[Akboy]

To the OP:

What is eternal life? or what do you think eternal life is to the LDS? What does it actually look like on a day-to-day basis for someone experiencing this kind of life?

Functionally--everyone WILL be "Mormon". That is, the proxy work (i.e. baptism, etc) will have been done for EVERYONE. Who is it that is not going to be "Mormon" after all that is done? (The use of the term Mormon is not really the best way to think of this--rather, everyone will have their priesthood covenants with Christ; but since you've phrased it using "Mormon", I have also.)

So everyone who experiences eternal life WILL be "Mormon" by virtue of all the proxy baptisms.

But it also depends on your definition of eternal life, but I'm assuming you are referring to whatever the fullest potential a human being has available to him or her in immortality.

Again--you live an awesome life. You get to the "other side". You meet your Savior. He says, Well done thou good and faithful servant. He says, I set up my church on earth through Joseph Smith and his successors. And your baptism is required by proper priesthood authority. You say, Oh, ok, I didn't know that before, or wasn't quite sure. He says, That's ok, we'll get it done by proxy and then you're all set.

So the question isn't whether some people in eternity will or won't be "Mormon" (i.e. having had an authorized baptism). Because we all will be, after all is said and done.

The question becomes, Why does anyone need a baptism? What does it do?

I don't believe there's a distinction between immortality and eternal life. I believe you're either saved/justified or you're not. I believe there's only one level of heaven and everyone there will be with God the Father.

But since I was asking about the LDS doctrine of eternal life, I was thinking of their definition, which according to various articles on lds.org, is basically exaltation, the best God has to offer and the highest kingdom of glory.

Everyone will be a Mormon? Then what's the point of being a Mormon in this life? Many LDS sources are very clear this mortal life is a test for us, and without the test, we could not progress to exaltation/eternal life. So which is it? Are you saying we can basically ignore God's plan of a test in this life and the make-up test in the next life will be good enough?

Edited April 9, 2013 by Akboy

[mathonihah]

I'm not a Mormon, but have faith in Christ and I follow His commandments. So as long as I endure to the end like this why wouldn't I get eternal life, the best God has to offer in heaven?

What about my activities? Like I said in the OP, I'm not Mormon, but I'm following His commandments. Why wouldn't I get eternal life?

But will I get eternal life/exaltation?

You also need to accept the fulness of his gospel, which means joining his only true Church: “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; and he that believeth not shall be damned.” Don't listen to anybody who says you don't need to; the don't know what they are talking about!

[canard78]

So how do you reconcile the idea of a variety of vehicles with Jesus's warning?

Matt. 7

¹³ “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. ¹⁴ For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Jesus also made it clear some people will think they are on the right path or in a good vehicle, yet they will be forced to depart from Christ and go to the eternal fire.

I agree... only two paths. Or maybe even only one path and people are heading up it or down it. But I can pass through that one gate on a pogo stick, a penny farthing or a sports car. As long as you go through the gate and are on the path in the right direction I think it's ok what vehicle is being used.

I also don't believe in eternal fire. I believe in the option of eternal progress (with a very few exceptions). I know you might not consider it inspired, but D&C 19 has something useful to me on why the word 'eternal fire' has been used. It's more effective to get a response from some who need to be 'scared' into action:

D&C19:6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.

7 Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name’s glory.

At the heart of Mormon theology is that this mortal life is not the only chance to qualify for eternal life. People who have lived heading in the right direction on the path but with a very slow vehicle will be given the help in the next to get further up the path. Even people who may have been heading merrily in the wrong direction will also be given this chance.