Getting Eternal Life

[Akboy]

Yes, I know Mormons don't believe we can 'work our way to heaven.' I'm not saying you have a works-based salvation. I'm just trying to understand what you believe about eternal life. I did a few searches on lds.org for 'eternal life' and 'salvation,' and multiple articles say eternal life and exaltation are basically the same thing. The articles go on to say we need to obey the laws and ordinances of the gospel, follow God's commandments and endure to the end or we won't get eternal life. So I asked a Mormon about this and the conversation something like this:

Me: I read some stuff on lds.org and they make it sound like we're supposed to earn eternal life.

LDS: No, we don't earn eternal life. We believe obeying laws and ordinances is the way we exercise our faith and belief in Jesus.

Me: Okay, but if you don't obey the laws and ordinances, then you won't get eternal life. So getting eternal life is dependent or based on what we can do. Is that more accurate?

LDS: No, we do not believe eternal life is within our power or ability.

Me: ???

To be clear, when I'm asking about your belief about how to get eternal life, I'm not asking about the theological part of it. I'm asking about the functional, practical part. Yes, I know you believe the Atonement paid for our sins and without Christ's power, we wouldn't get to heaven, let alone a higher kingdom of glory. But if all someone does is have faith in the Atonement and Christ's power, but doesn't follow His commandments as you've defined them, then they wouldn't get eternal life, right? If that's right, then the theological focus is on Christ, but the functional part of how we get eternal life would be dependent on us following those commandments.

Maybe I should ask this a different way. I'm trusting Christ's power to get eternal life, but I'm also following His commandments. I'm waiting till marriage to have sex. I'm a naturally calm person, so I never use profanity and I very rarely get mad. I don't lie, cheat or steal for various reasons. I don't even drink alcohol or caffeine because they don't appeal to me. By the world's standard, I live a pretty boring life. I'm not a Mormon, but have faith in Christ and I follow His commandments. So as long as I endure to the end like this why wouldn't I get eternal life, the best God has to offer in heaven?

Edited April 7, 2013 by Akboy

[jwhitlock]

Being obedient and participating in the ordinances simply puts us in the position for the power of the atonement to work in our lives. Our activities don't save us; they qualify us so that the atonement can save and exalt us.

The atonement is the gift offered to us that does all the work related to salvation and exaltation. Our efforts simply allow us to accept the gift and allow it to work in our lives.

[DarkScythe]

Jesus did say, "if ye love me, keep my commandant." And In James. "Faith without works is dead, Works without Faith is dead." Having Faith is quite important and so is Works. Atonement can do so much for us. We need to do our part as well. We can't be saved while being ignorant or lazy.

[Akboy]

Being obedient and participating in the ordinances simply puts us in the position for the power of the atonement to work in our lives. Our activities don't save us; they qualify us so that the atonement can save and exalt us.

The atonement is the gift offered to us that does all the work related to salvation and exaltation. Our efforts simply allow us to accept the gift and allow it to work in our lives.

That's why I made the distinction between the theological and the practical/functional. Our activities don't save us, but without those activities, we won't get eternal life, right? If so, then whether or not we get eternal life is dependent on our activities, right?

What about my activities? Like I said in the OP, I'm not Mormon, but I'm following His commandments. Why wouldn't I get eternal life?

[DarkScythe]

akboy, I do suspect you will do well in Heaven.

[Akboy]

akboy, I do suspect you will do well in Heaven.

But will I get eternal life/exaltation?

[jwhitlock]

That's why I made the distinction between the theological and the practical/functional. Our activities don't save us, but without those activities, we won't get eternal life, right? If so, then whether or not we get eternal life is dependent on our activities, right?

What about my activities? Like I said in the OP, I'm not Mormon, but I'm following His commandments. Why wouldn't I get eternal life?

Are you willing to do everything needed to put you in the position to make the atonement fully functional in your life? That not only includes attempting to keep the commandments, but to also make sure you obtain the required ordinances.

[CV75]

I'm not a Mormon, but have faith in Christ and I follow His commandments. So as long as I endure to the end like this why wouldn't I get eternal life, the best God has to offer in heaven?

The only reason I could think of, and this might not be the case, is the thing you didn't mention: figuratively speaking, of course, "sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me." What is your "great possession" that you have given up, or have yet to give up?

[Calm]

You might find this talk useful (brought to my attention by DBMormon IIRC):

http://speeches.byu.edu/?act=viewitem&id=1966

[canard78]

I think we Mormons sometimes over complicate it.

Jesus' last parable taught a powerful lesson:

31 ¶When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

...

46 And these (righteous) shall go... into life eternal.

(Matthew 25)

I believe all other principles, commandments of LDS teachings are merely feeders to the two great commandants of love God and love your fellow-human.

Chastity is important, not simply as an evidence of obedience, but a way of meeting the expectation of Matt 25.

The Word of Wisdom is not a wheat/chaff test of faith, but an effective tool for being emotionally independent and able to be more considerate to other people. Many of the ills of society trace back to non-observance. Especially alcohol.

Temple attendance and holding a recommend is not some 'heavenly hall pass' (Givens) that is evidence of our qualification for eternal life but an opportunity to go and serve those who can do nothing in this life to reciprocate the gift.

Any Mormon who says "I hope I am obedient enough to qualify for eternal life" (a statement I heard in a recent testimony meeting), should, I believe, be thinking mainly of their fulfilling the requirement that Bill & Ted so brilliantly summarised: be excellent to each other.

Obedience to commandments is important, but only in so far as it help us fulfil the requirements of all three Matt 25 parables:

- Know the master, and ideally not leave it late

- Be the best we each possibly can be within the 'degree of difficulty' we've been given

- Be good to our fellow human.

The rest, for me, is a facilitation aid. We won't 'get into heaven' by being a 100% home teacher or tithe payer. But we might if doing those things helps us serve other with compassion and become less attached to our worldly goods and instead more generous with the 90% of income we are left with.

And at the end, we will never have done enough to be 'sheep' entirely on our own merit. The brilliance of the atonement is it gives the hope to keep trying to act like a 'sheep' even though we're often acting more like like 'goats.' At at the day of reckoning I hope The Lord will, in his mercy, say 'well done though good and faithful servant. You look like someone who tried to be a sheep, let me forgive and forget your many goat like traits and welcome you into my flock and fold.'

[canard78]

Jesus did say, "if ye love me, keep my commandant." And In James. "Faith without works is dead, Works without Faith is dead." Having Faith is quite important and so is Works. Atonement can do so much for us. We need to do our part as well. We can't be saved while being ignorant or lazy.

Atonement can do SO much. I agree. (But not 'only do so much')

God's less interested in what we do and more interested in who we become through what we do (see previous post, we become wise virgins, good servants, sheep).

Keeping commandments create habits. Habit meld character.

It's who we are He wants. Not what we do.

[urroner]

As for how you can gain eternal life or anybody can gain eternal life, that is between that person and God. There isn't, AFAIK, a clean list of things to do from A to Z about the specifics. I believe that it about learning to live righteous principles. In the OT and NT, a good start is mentioned and that is

25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

In the Book of Mormon, these same principles are stated a little differently:

....when ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God.

That is the best answer I can come up with. Some have not like this answer in the past. They ask what about temple work, baptism, and all those Mormony things. My response is we are responsible for any light the has revealed to us and He, God, will hold us accountable for what we do with that light, whatever that light is. If God has revealed to us to walk a certain path, then we need to walk that certain path.

Without the grace of God, we cannot be saved, but because of the grace of God, we are saved, but our rewards, as mentioned in Revelation, is not based only on grace, but also on our works. What those works need to be and what are our rewards are is up to the Heavenly Father and our Lord.

Edited April 7, 2013 by urroner

[canard78]

As for how you can gain eternal life or anybody can gain eternal life, that is between that person and God. There isn't, AFAIK, a clean list of things to do from A to Z about the specifics. I believe that it about learning to live righteous principles. In the OT and NT, a good start is mentioned and that is

In the Book of Mormon, these same principles are stated a little differently:

That is the best answer I can come up with. Some have not like this answer in the past. They ask what about temple work, baptism, and all those Mormony things. My response is we are responsible for any light the has revealed to us and He, God, will hold us accountable for what we do with that light, whatever that light is. If God has revealed to us to walk a certain path, then we need to walk that certain path.

Without the grace of God, we cannot be saved, but because of the grace of God, we are saved, but our rewards, as mentioned in Revelation, is not based only on grace, but also on our works. What those works need to be and what are our rewards are is up to the Heavenly Father and our Lord.

+1

Like I said in my previous post. All the other stuff is really just stuff. Stuff to help create habits and character that lead being like Christ. Obedience is not the objective and destination. Obedience is a useful vehicle for travelling the path towards the ultimate destination (the Lamb).

I'd say it's about being sheep not goats... But I'm going to give grinning goats a pass.

(I've always preferred cats and goats over dogs and sheep... What does that say about me...)

[canard78]

I'd also extend the analogy to being fit. I am not. However much I might tell people 'I am fit, I believe in fitness, I accept fitness into my life,' it won't make a difference. I'll still not actually be fit.

Once I change behaviour there are lots of routes to fitness. In the past I have chosen running, cycling and P90X. My commitment to running and following Tony Horton's program is less important and only a process to the actual goal of being for. Completing P90X is not the objective. Being fit is.

God has clearly placed his children in many, many different 'fitness' programs. They are different, follow different principles and practices, but lead to being fit to live with him again. Some are considered quicker and more effective. But all ultimately are only vehicles and processes for getting to the actual goal of returning to him.

[urroner]

+1

Like I said in my previous post. All the other stuff is really just stuff. Stuff to help create habits and character that lead being like Christ. Obedience is not the objective and destination. Obedience is a useful vehicle for travelling the path towards the ultimate destination (the Lamb).

I'd say it's about being sheep not goats... But I'm going to give grinning goats a pass.

(I've always preferred cats and goats over dogs and sheep... What does that say about me...)

Any apologies about grinning goats is accepted.

If you read the Beatitudes, none of them are commandments, in fact, as a whole, the same goes for the complete Sermon on the Mount. They and it are basically about living our lives based on righteous principles and when we live righteous principles, we automatically live the commandments, but we need to live the commandments to learn to live those righteous principles.

[volgadon]

That's why I made the distinction between the theological and the practical/functional. Our activities don't save us, but without those activities, we won't get eternal life, right? If so, then whether or not we get eternal life is dependent on our activities, right?

What about my activities? Like I said in the OP, I'm not Mormon, but I'm following His commandments. Why wouldn't I get eternal life?

It depends on our responses to God's grace and God's call. Even evangelicals believe this to some extent, else why the insistence on accepting Jesus?

[Lightbearer]

Yes, I know Mormons don't believe we can 'work our way to heaven.' I'm not saying you have a works-based salvation. I'm just trying to understand what you believe about eternal life. I did a few searches on lds.org for 'eternal life' and 'salvation,' and multiple articles say eternal life and exaltation are basically the same thing. The articles go on to say we need to obey the laws and ordinances of the gospel, follow God's commandments and endure to the end or we won't get eternal life. So I asked a Mormon about this and the conversation something like this:

Me: I read some stuff on lds.org and they make it sound like we're supposed to earn eternal life.

LDS: No, we don't earn eternal life. We believe obeying laws and ordinances is the way we exercise our faith and belief in Jesus.

Me: Okay, but if you don't obey the laws and ordinances, then you won't get eternal life. So getting eternal life is dependent or based on what we can do. Is that more accurate?

LDS: No, we do not believe eternal life is within our power or ability.

Me: ???

To be clear, when I'm asking about your belief about how to get eternal life, I'm not asking about the theological part of it. I'm asking about the functional, practical part. Yes, I know you believe the Atonement paid for our sins and without Christ's power, we wouldn't get to heaven, let alone a higher kingdom of glory. But if all someone does is have faith in the Atonement and Christ's power, but doesn't follow His commandments as you've defined them, then they wouldn't get eternal life, right? If that's right, then the theological focus is on Christ, but the functional part of how we get eternal life would be dependent on us following those commandments.

Maybe I should ask this a different way. I'm trusting Christ's power to get eternal life, but I'm also following His commandments. I'm waiting till marriage to have sex. I'm a naturally calm person, so I never use profanity and I very rarely get mad. I don't lie, cheat or steal for various reasons. I don't even drink alcohol or caffeine because they don't appeal to me. By the world's standard, I live a pretty boring life. I'm not a Mormon, but have faith in Christ and I follow His commandments. So as long as I endure to the end like this why wouldn't I get eternal life, the best God has to offer in heaven?

From what you have said, NO not in the Celestial Kingdom:

"And again we bear record—for we saw and heard, and this is the testimony of the gospel of Christ concerning them who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just— They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given— That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power; And who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true. They are they who are the church of the Firstborn. They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things— They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory; And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son. Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God— Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ's, and Christ is God's. And they shall overcome all things. Wherefore, let no man glory in man, but rather let him glory in God, who shall subdue all enemies under his feet. These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever. These are they whom he shall bring with him, when he shall come in the clouds of heaven to reign on the earth over his people. These are they who shall have part in the first resurrection. These are they who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just. These are they who are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly place, the holiest of all. These are they who have come to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of Enoch, and of the Firstborn. These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all. These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood. These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical." (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 76:50-70)

You cannot seperate the theological from the practical. Our keeping the commandments grows out of our faith and love of Christ and so if we do not trust in Christ we cannot be perfected. See the following:

"Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God. And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot." (Book of Mormon | Moroni 10:32-33)

The only way to come unto Christ is through keeping His commandments and obeying His ordinances.

We must follow Christ in order to become one with Him and His Father:

"Wherefore, I would that ye should remember that I have spoken unto you concerning that prophet which the Lord showed unto me, that should baptize the Lamb of God, which should take away the sins of the world. And now, if the Lamb of God, he being holy, should have need to be baptized by water, to fulfil all righteousness, O then, how much more need have we, being unholy, to be baptized, yea, even by water! And now, I would ask of you, my beloved brethren, wherein the Lamb of God did fulfil all righteousness in being baptized by water? Know ye not that he was holy? But notwithstanding he being holy, he showeth unto the children of men that, according to the flesh he humbleth himself before the Father, and witnesseth unto the Father that he would be obedient unto him in keeping his commandments. Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form of a dove. And again, it showeth unto the children of men the straitness of the path, and the narrowness of the gate, by which they should enter, he having set the example before them. And he said unto the children of men: Follow thou me. Wherefore, my beloved brethren, can we follow Jesus save we shall be willing to keep the commandments of the Father? And the Father said: Repent ye, repent ye, and be baptized in the name of my Beloved Son. And also, the voice of the Son came unto me, saying: He that is baptized in my name, to him will the Father give the Holy Ghost, like unto me; wherefore, follow me, and do the things which ye have seen me do. Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel. But, behold, my beloved brethren, thus came the voice of the Son unto me, saying: After ye have repented of your sins, and witnessed unto the Father that ye are willing to keep my commandments, by the baptism of water, and have received the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost, and can speak with a new tongue, yea, even with the tongue of angels, and after this should deny me, it would have been better for you that ye had not known me. And I heard a voice from the Father, saying: Yea, the words of my Beloved are true and faithful. He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved. And now, my beloved brethren, I know by this that unless a man shall endure to the end, in following the example of the Son of the living God, he cannot be saved. Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost. And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.

And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save. Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life." (Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 31:4-20)

I hope these scriptures help you understand our position and the necessity of keeping the commandments the following says it all:

"And, if you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God." (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 14:7)

That is the "practical" statement but as you notice eternal life is a gift of God through the atonement but keeping all the commandments is essential to receive that gift. Because all the commandments have the effect of keeping us in tune with the spirit of the Lord which is the only way we can endure to the end. The Sacrament sort of spells out the covenant we make with God. We must take upon us the name of Christ and always remember Him (Christ) and we promise to keep His commandments which if we do we will always have His spirit (the gift of the Holy Ghost) to always be with us which spirit is what sanctifies us from sin so that we become pure as He is pure.

Hope this helps.

[rpn]

The point of this life is to learn how to control this new body we got when we came to earth --- the reason we came to earth, having progressed as far as we could without one----in submission to God's will. That means our job is to get better and better at learning to use it as He wants it to be used, so we can become like Him. Once we are baptized, we are immediately eligible for the celestial kingdom/exaltation (though not for the highest part of that). We remain in that state as we do our personal best to do what He would have us do (which means controlling all our appetites and passions, and bodily parts and functions) including keeping the commandments and honoring our covenants, but not restricted to that, and quickly repent when we fall short, and when we sin (know what we are to do and refuse/fail to do). Since we cannot meet the demands of justice by ourselves, we cannot be perfect except through the grace of Jesus Christ. And we get access to that (the atonement of Jesus Christ) by doing our personal best, and quickly repenting, however close or far away that is to objective perfection.

[pogi]

But will I get eternal life/exaltation?

That is simply not our call. In fact, we are implicitly commanded to not judge. One thing I do know is that we will be judged according to what light we have been given in this life. It is impossible for me to know what light you have been given. This is between you and Christ, the perfectly merciful and just judge of all men.

One thing I can promise you, if you do die without baptism, you will have this ordinance performed for you through proxy in one of our temples by one of our loving members on your behalf and in your service. We simply would not do this if we knew that you had no chance. I have no reason to believe that you cannot receive exaltation and eternal life, you seem like a good man.

[volgadon]

That is simply not our call. In fact, we are implicitly commanded to not judge.

Precisely.

[pogi]

It depends on our responses to God's grace and God's call. Even evangelicals believe this to some extent, else why the insistence on accepting Jesus?

Volgadon makes an excellent point. I think all Christian's regardless of sect can agree on this one point: Salvation is entirely dependent on the grace of our Lord and our acceptance of Him. Where we differ is in what it means to accept Him.

Can we accept Him and not believe Him? Can we accept Him without accepting His word? Can we accept His word without keeping it? Can we accept Him without loving Him, and demonstrate this love by keeping His commandments as he asks? Do we accept Him by serving Mammon instead of God?

When it comes to acceptance, actions truly speak louder than words. Christ made this very clear when in speaking of some of His followers he said, they "honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me". We cannot accept Him with our mouths alone, He made it very clear that he needs our Hearts.

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby you have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will you die, O house of Israel? (Ezekiel 18:31)

We become epistles of Chris written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart (2 Corinthians 3:3).

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him… And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight (1 John 3:18-22).

And thou shalt love the Lord your God with all thy heart… (Matt 22:37)

If ye love me (with all thy heart) keep my commandments (John 14:15)

The acceptance of his commandments is the acceptance of His grace, for they were given by His grace for us unto salvation. Our hearts are purged by grace through obedience.

[danielwoods]

How do you all interpret 1 John 5:^{13 "}These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life..."

[canard78]

The point of this life is to learn how to control this new body we got when we came to earth --- the reason we came to earth, having progressed as far as we could without one----in submission to God's will. That means our job is to get better and better at learning to use it as He wants it to be used, so we can become like Him. Once we are baptized, we are immediately eligible for the celestial kingdom/exaltation (though not for the highest part of that). We remain in that state as we do our personal best to do what He would have us do (which means controlling all our appetites and passions, and bodily parts and functions) including keeping the commandments and honoring our covenants, but not restricted to that, and quickly repent when we fall short, and when we sin (know what we are to do and refuse/fail to do). Since we cannot meet the demands of justice by ourselves, we cannot be perfect except through the grace of Jesus Christ. And we get access to that (the atonement of Jesus Christ) by doing our personal best, and quickly repenting, however close or far away that is to objective perfection.

'The point of this life is to learn how to control this new body we got when we came to earth' it's a shame that Mormon theology has mutated for some into a belief that life is in some way a test of self-control.

We have a body because we become better people by serving others and serving God. It's quite hard to serve someone in spirit only. You really can only do it with hands and feet.

[pogi]

How do you all interpret 1 John 5:^{13 "}These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life..."

For a correct understanding, it must be interpreted in conjunction with the rest of scripture.

What does it mean to believe on His name in this passage? Even the devils believe on His name as evidence by Mark 5:6-7 "But when he saw Jesus afar off, he...said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God?"

Lucifer and his unclean spirits believe on the name of the son of God, will they be saved?

It is not enough to simply believe on His name if we have the attitude of "what have I to do with thee."

John emphasizes the need for not just belief, but that we love Him. In the same chapter that you quote, verse 3, John says "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

Can we be saved if we believe in God but do not love Him, and say "what have I to do with thee"?

The apostle John said: "Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, 'I know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk even as He walked" (1 John 2:3-6)

When Christ was asked by a young man "what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?" Christ replied, "if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matt 19:16,17) Is it enough to believe in Christ and not believe His word? His word is clear that obedience is necessary for eternal life.

In summary, the belief that John is talking about is not a mere pronouncement or acknowledgment of His existence. Many have done that with their lips, and yet their hearts are far from Him. The belief on the name of Christ that John speaks of is the taking of his name upon us through belief in and obedience to His word in demonstration of our love for Him and to "assure our hearts before him" .

Edited April 8, 2013 by pogi

[Akboy]

For a correct understanding, it must be interpreted in conjunction with the rest of scripture.

What does it mean to believe on His name in this passage?

You also have to take the whole verse into account, not just the term 'believe.' John is saying 'If you believe in Christ, can know now you have eternal life.' The greek word for 'know' in the verse means to know now. If my eternal life was dependent on whether or not I obeyed and endured to the end, then I couldn't know now I have eternal life.

When Christ was asked by a young man "what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?" Christ replied, "if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matt 19:16,17) Is it enough to believe in Christ and not believe His word? His word is clear that obedience is necessary for eternal life.

Jesus wasn't giving a sermon on how we are saved. He was responding to some very specific issues He saw in the young ruler. Since His statements were directed at a specific individual, we need to be very careful when we try to apply them to everyone else. We can't just take them at face value and apply them to all believers.

Here's a good explanation of what Jesus was actually responding to, http://www.gotquestions.org/rich-young-ruler.html

That is simply not our call. In fact, we are implicitly commanded to not judge.

I'm not suggesting you judge my worthiness. I'm just asking if you believe it's possible to get eternal life without being a member of the LDS church.

Temple attendance and holding a recommend is not some 'heavenly hall pass' (Givens) that is evidence of our qualification for eternal life but an opportunity to go and serve those who can do nothing in this life to reciprocate the gift.

Why is a recommend needed at all? What if I serve people as much as I can without being a Mormon?