President Hinckley'S Denial And The Lorenzo Snow Manual

[USU78]

@cinepro: Made life difficult for all of us, of course, by not keeping most of his words close to his chest, like Hinckley did....

Well . . . GBH had very few US Expeditionary Forces or Missouri [or Illinois for that matter} Militias coming for his head during his administration . . . so something he did must have worked to some degree.

Or do you prefer the Zedekiah method of dealing with an obstreperous cousin with prophetic pretensions? Slime pits or banishment or execution? Which shall it be?

[Questing Beast]

Don't forget the yoke worn for what, eleven years, in public? Jeremiah was a nutcase as far as the status quo was concerned, what to do, what to do, with good old cousin Jeremiah?...

[rongo]

There were examples, however, of them even keeping their identities secret as well. Its a hard call whether to broadcast a doctrine that other Christians might find repugnant, or to blow off the question.

Well, then you have Joseph telling several brethren to lie about polygamy (e.g., John Taylor, debate at Bologne sur Mer, etc.). So, I don't know that we can say with precision what Joseph Smith would or would not have said or done in a Larry King or Time interview.

[Bikeemikey]

I think he is speaking to his own experiences with that phrase and he says he just doesn't know much about it or who speaks about it, can't fault someone for not knowing

Pretty sure you can fault the prophet for not knowing, though in this instance I am sure he knew and was just being coy.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Bikeemikey

[cinepro]

FWIW, blogger R. Gary has an interesting list of references for the places in which this teaching is currently taught in official Church publications:

http://ndbf.blogspot.com/2013/03/snows-couplet.html

[MormonMason]

Don't forget the yoke worn for what, eleven years, in public? Jeremiah was a nutcase as far as the status quo was concerned, what to do, what to do, with good old cousin Jeremiah?...

Or Isaiah running around naked and barefoot in public for three and a half years.... Or Ezekiel using sexually explicit language to make a point about Samaria and Jerusalem....

[Stone holm]

Or Isaiah running around naked and barefoot in public for three and a half years.... Or Ezekiel using sexually explicit language to make a point about Samaria and Jerusalem....

If you were bombarded by the visions those two got hit with, you might do some strange things as well....although am trying to imagine us singing, "We Thank Thee Oh God For a Prophet" -- if he happened to be attending General Conference in the nude -- ugh, something just should not see the light of day....

[telnetd]

Joseph Smith wasn’t throwing pearls before swine. He was putting his light on a hill.

It looks like the church tried to snuff out or dim this light in its latest Gospel

Principles. It removed the part in the Exaltation chapter -- "This is the way

our Heavenly Father became God".

Gail

[Tacenda]

It looks like the church tried to snuff out or dim this light in its latest Gospel

Principles. It removed the part in the Exaltation chapter -- "This is the way

our Heavenly Father became God".

Gail

Pretty soon the adage 'We have more to add" is going to feel like it's added work for nothing.

[Tacenda]

It looks like the church tried to snuff out or dim this light in its latest Gospel

Principles. It removed the part in the Exaltation chapter -- "This is the way

our Heavenly Father became God".

Gail

Pretty soon the adage 'we have more to add to the good" is going to feel like it's added work for nothing.

[Stone holm]

Pretty soon the adage 'we have more to add to the good" is going to feel like it's added work for nothing.

Yeah never was a big fan of Pres. Hinckley's "We are just like you, but have more..." We aren't like the Protestants and Catholics, and it isn't more of the same stuff -- if it were, very few of us converts would have ever converted.

[Questing Beast]

Monson's is the same, if not more so, as Hinckley's emphasis on sameness....

[Ahab]

Yeah never was a big fan of Pres. Hinckley's "We are just like you, but have more..." We aren't like the Protestants and Catholics, and it isn't more of the same stuff -- if it were, very few of us converts would have ever converted.

I agree with what he said and can see how that is true. I didn't give up anything good I had already learned in another church when I joined the true Church. I already had the Bible to learn from, and the Holy Spirit helped me on occasions, so I was able to learn and grow a lot while in that other Church. It's just that I didn't have as much good stuff as I gained when I joined the true Church, much of which I wasn't even aware of until just before I chose to join.

[Stone holm]

I agree with what he said and can see how that is true. I didn't give up anything good I had already learned in another church when I joined the true Church. I already had the Bible to learn from, and the Holy Spirit helped me on occasions, so I was able to learn and grow a lot while in that other Church. It's just that I didn't have as much good stuff as I gained when I joined the true Church, much of which I wasn't even aware of until just before I chose to join.

Well I probably overstated my case, I think a lot of people join the Church who had come to the conclusion that all organized relgion had gone astray, and then they were either tracted out or somehow bumbled into the Church and suddenly, "Wow, I didn't know there was still a Church organized that way, or wow, I didn't know there was a Christian Church that believed that." I know back when my wife and I were tracted out (that was back in the days when the dinosaurs still roamed the earth and missionaries still sat with a notebook in their laps with flip charts they went through for your benefit). I had already read the Book of Mormon and decided that it was probably true -- I had obtained a copy independently, but it had not particularly motivated me to believe that meant there was in fact still a true Church in existence or to seek out the Church. Actually, I had read it while sipping brandy as I tried to decompress before taking comprehensive exams at the end of each semester in law school. But I never would have joined the Church had I thought that they were pushing the same kind of god as a gaseous substance that the Protestants and Catholics believed in, and they introduced me to Snow's Couplet rather early in the discussions. I think actually it was shortly after they showed up at our house the morning after a law school bash and handed me a triple combination and asked me to put a bookmark on the 89th Section which I obliged them by finding one of those gold bands that you unwrap from a cigar which made a convenient bookmark when your head is throbbing with a hangover and all you want to do is get the missionaries off your doorstep. It was that which introduced me to Abraham 3, which then prompted the Snow Couplet discussion. So no, I don't think we have more of the same stuff they have -- we have qualitatively different stuff, that leads to different beliefs and a different conception of the Cosmos than that held by any other religion on the face of the Earth. And I am quite proud to say so, thank you very much! We need to dare to be different from the Evangelicals and the Christian Right fundamentalists.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Stone holm

[Ahab]

...So no, I don't think we have more of the same stuff they have -- we have qualitatively different stuff, that leads to different beliefs and a different conception of the Cosmos than that held by any other religion on the face of the Earth. And I am quite proud to say so, thank you very much! We need to dare to be different from the Evangelicals and the Christian Right fundamentalists.

I can see what you're saying and I can see how it's true, but I can also still see how we still have a lot of the good stuff we learned in some other religion. The good stuff is what we added to, and what we want to add to. They can keep all the bad stuff they have.

[CASteinman]

We need to dare to be different from the Evangelicals and the Christian Right fundamentalists.

I was uninterested until I learned that they believed that "As Man Is God Once Was, As God Is Man May Become". At that point I started listening. Because I had come to the conclusion that maybe there was no God -- but if there was, God would want us to become like Him/It and that was why we were sentient and capable of thinking in those terms.

I still had a long way to go.. but that was the first "open ear" I gave it.

Incidentally, the first Mormon Book I read was "No One Knows My History". Even as a young person, I was not impressed with that book as some people are today, though I did not think it was as bad as I do now.

Edited March 29, 2013 by CASteinman

[Stone holm]

I was uninterested until I learned that they believed that "As Man Is God Once Was, As God Is Man May Become". At that point I started listening. Because I had come to the conclusion that maybe there was no God -- but if there was, God would want us to become like Him/It and that was why we were sentient and capable of thinking in those terms.

I still had a long way to go.. but that was the first "open ear" I gave it.

Incidentally, the first Mormon Book I read was "No One Knows My History". Even as a young person, I was not impressed with that book as some people are today, though I did not think it was as bad as I do now.

There were a lot of hilarious events associated with my conversion, but I agree it was the differences and peculiarities that intrigued and eventually converted me, I had become totally repulsed by much of what passed for Christianity in America.

[Bikeemikey]

I was uninterested until I learned that they believed that "As Man Is God Once Was, As God Is Man May Become". At that point I started listening. Because I had come to the conclusion that maybe there was no God -- but if there was, God would want us to become like Him/It and that was why we were sentient and capable of thinking in those terms.

I still had a long way to go.. but that was the first "open ear" I gave it.

Incidentally, the first Mormon Book I read was "No One Knows My History". Even as a young person, I was not impressed with that book as some people are today, though I did not think it was as bad as I do now.

On my mission a very faithful, but doctrinally illiterate missionary became so incensed by his companion suggesting that we could become like good that he got in a fist fight with him due to this "sacrilegious" then called the mission president to inform him of the heresy his companion was teaching.

I know the second part occurred, the fist fight was rumor that I never confirmed.

Anyway, after spending a few days with the mission president he still refused to even accept the idea that god might have been like us and we might one day kind of be like God.

He stuck around and finished his mission and was a nice guy. Just thought that this specific doctrine was wrong...

[Stone holm]

On my mission a very faithful, but doctrinally illiterate missionary became so incensed by his companion suggesting that we could become like good that he got in a fist fight with him due to this "sacrilegious" then called the mission president to inform him of the heresy his companion was teaching.

I know the second part occurred, the fist fight was rumor that I never confirmed.

Anyway, after spending a few days with the mission president he still refused to even accept the idea that god might have been like us and we might one day kind of be like God.

He stuck around and finished his mission and was a nice guy. Just thought that this specific doctrine was wrong...

We carry around with us a lot of religious cultural baggage.