Law Of Chastity And The Slippery Slope

[smac97]

The LDS Church takes a lot of flak for its teachings about the Law of Chastity. I have noticed that, during the last several years, a lot of attention has been directed to the Church's position on homosexuality. However, the Law of Chastity addresses more than that. As Elder Ballard put it: "We follow Jesus Christ by living the law of chastity. God gave this commandment, and He has never revoked or changed it. This law is clear and simple. No one is to engage in sexual relationships outside the bounds the Lord has set. This applies to homosexual behavior of any kind and to heterosexual relationships outside of marriage. It is a sin to violate the law of chastity."

These standards used to be fairly mainstream in society, but they are increasingly characterized as out-of-touch, puritannical, even harmful and wrong. I think we can best respond to such claims by doing our utmost to live the Law of Chastity, and thus reduce or eliminate one of the most effective rhetorical arguments presently used against it: that its advocates are hypocrites who talk the talk but do not walk the walk. The "Corianton Effect," if you will. We can also focus on living the Restored Gospel in all respects, with particular emphasis on the first and second "great commandments" to love God and to love our neighbors. As we do this, we present the most compelling argument in favor of the Restored Gospel.

Alas, the world will, in the main, continue to slip further into wickedness. Not all at once, but in degrees. We are on a slippery slope, and I think contravening the Law of Chastity is one of the quickest ways to hasten this descent.

Here is a case in point:

On Saturday afternoon, Yale hosted a “sensitivity training” in which students were asked to consider topics such as bestiality, incest, and accepting money for sex.

During the workshop, entitled, "Sex: Am I Normal," students anonymously asked and answered questions about sex using their cell phones, and viewed the responses in real time in the form of bar charts.

The session was hosted by “sexologist” Dr. Jill McDevitt, who owns a sex store . . .

...

Event director Giuliana Berry ’14 told Campus Reform in an interview on Monday that the workshop was brought to campus to teach students not to automatically judge people who may have engaged in these sorts of activities, but rather to respond with “understanding” and “compassion.”

"People do engage in some of these activities that we believe only for example perverts engage in,” she said. “What the goal is is to increase compassion for people who may engage in activities that are not what you would personally consider normal.”

McDevitt referred to the range of activities discussed in the workshop as “sexual diversity.”

“It tries to get people to be more sensitive … to sexual diversity,” McDevitt told Campus Reform in an interview on Monday. “We’re not all heterosexual], able-bodied folks who have standard missionary sex.”

...

Attendee Alex Saeedy '15, told the News ... ""I think that's what the point of the workshop was — to bring up things we thought we so taboo and desire or urges we criticize are just regular parts of sexual psychology."

During the workshop, McDevitt taught the approximately 40 students that just because people think something is deviant does not mean that it is bad.

“It’s sensitivity training,” McDevitt told Campus Reform. “Don't judge other people, because we all have something we are embarrassed about.”

Henry Jones, Sr. put it well: "My boy, we are pilgrims in an unholy land."

I am sure that my parents worried about their children as the world worsened while I was growing up. I have that same worry now about my children and the world in which they are growing up. But the Restored Gospel helps me avoid despair. I am grateful for it.

Thoughts?

Thank you,

-Smac

Edited March 6, 2013 by smac97

[Sleeper Cell]

“It’s sensitivity training,” McDevitt told Campus Reform. “Don't judge other people, because we all have something we are embarrassed about.”

Sounds more like desensitivity training to me.

[bluebell]

Some things people should be embarrassed about and they should be judged for.

[thesometimesaint]

Campus Reform isn't the best source of news.

[Duncan]

pro law of chastity here but at the same time I advocate a balanced approach to things. If you get too close to the fire you get burned but if you move too far back you freeze to death and there are frozen Mormons, single or married out there.It's balance that is needed. I have more to say but have to run out here! more to come as the plot thickens!

Edited March 8, 2013 by Duncan

[Buzzard]

Don't want to say too much so as to get the thread shut down-and/or me suspended-, but on the night I was married I understood why the Law of Chastity is so important. And it is the very key to our eternal happiness, to quote the oft maligned and unreasonably so Elder Packer.

[smac97]

Campus Reform isn't the best source of news.

Okay. Are you suggesting that the event did not take place? That the quotes from the participates are fake?

Thanks,

-Smac

[thesometimesaint]

Okay. Are you suggesting that the event did not take place? That the quotes from the participates are fake?

Thanks,

-Smac

I don't know if the quotes are real or not. Even if true much depends on context. A college course in human sexuality must of necessity address its variability.

The site itself is highly conservative and reactionary. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that but we should have been told that before hand so that we know its bias.

[drums12]

As one who is a recovering pornography/sex addict, I hope my thoughts may be relevant. In the book He Restoreth My Soul: Understanding and Breaking the Chemical and Spiritual Chains of Pornography Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, LDS Neurosurgeon Donald Hilton discusses the individual and collective damage of increased sexual permissiveness. The increasing tolerance for pornography is a major cause, and paradoxically, also a major symptom, of this permissiveness.

As popular culture, the media, and "psychologists" continue to parrot Satan's lies, I believe that, in the words of The Family: A Proclamation to the World, "the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets."

This said, I have to add that it is absolutely crucial that we learn to separate the sin from the sinner. I know what it is like to feel like a leper or pariah. The statistics on pornography addiction, for example, are startling, and it is believed that the statistics are the same in the Church as without. I guarantee you that 30-50 percent of the brethren in your ward, and even some of the sisters, are secretly battling this awful demon. Shame is one of Satan's greatest weapons. They need our love, our strength, and our compassion. Many were addicted as young children, before they even had the ability to realize what was going on. I love the following quote from President Kimball:

Jesus saw sin as wrong but also was able to see sin as springing from deep and unmet needs on the part of the sinner. This permitted him to condemn the sin without condemning the individual. We can show forth our love for others even when we are called upon to correct them. We need to be able to look deeply enough into the lives of others to see the basic causes for their failures and shortcomings.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I don't know if the quotes are real or not. Even if true much depends on context. A college course in human sexuality must of necessity address its variability.

The site itself is highly conservative and reactionary. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that but we should have been told that before hand so that we know its bias.

Yawn. Like you ever do that when you quote from one of your hack job liberal sites. Edited March 6, 2013 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

On Saturday afternoon, Yale hosted a “sensitivity training” in which students were asked to consider topics such as bestiality, incest, and accepting money for sex.

So freaking disgusting. Be hey we can't take it seriously because it came from the campus reform. Which btw I had never heard of before this.

[Tacenda]

As one who is a recovering pornography/sex addict, I hope my thoughts may be relevant. In the book He Restoreth My Soul: Understanding and Breaking the Chemical and Spiritual Chains of Pornography Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, LDS Neurosurgeon Donald Hilton discusses the individual and collective damage of increased sexual permissiveness. The increasing tolerance for pornography is a major cause, and paradoxically, also a major symptom, of this permissiveness.

As popular culture, the media, and "psychologists" continue to parrot Satan's lies, I believe that, in the words of The Family: A Proclamation to the World, "the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets."

This said, I have to add that it is absolutely crucial that we learn to separate the sin from the sinner. I know what it is like to feel like a leper or pariah. The statistics on pornography addiction, for example, are startling, and it is believed that the statistics are the same in the Church as without. I guarantee you that 30-50 percent of the brethren in your ward, and even some of the sisters, are secretly battling this awful demon. Shame is one of Satan's greatest weapons. They need our love, our strength, and our compassion. Many were addicted as young children, before they even had the ability to realize what was going on. I love the following quote from President Kimball:

Jesus saw sin as wrong but also was able to see sin as springing from deep and unmet needs on the part of the sinner. This permitted him to condemn the sin without condemning the individual. We can show forth our love for others even when we are called upon to correct them. We need to be able to look deeply enough into the lives of others to see the basic causes for their failures and shortcomings.

Two men in my ward, I believe it was in F & T meeting, spoke about their porn addition, one was going to go on a mission but for health reasons stayed home, the other, a very active family man. Both are who I'd have never thought would ever do that sort of thing. Thank you for pointing out the problems we are having. With the internet at our fingertips it's a terrible curse. I know that some believe the LDS take it too seriously by talking about it constantly and admonishing our youth against it that they think it makes the youth curious about it and then try it. Who knows, but it is definitely a problem.

[halconero]

A UofT student group just hosted an orgy...and another hosted an workshop about a myriad of ways one can break the law of chastity...

I swear...we are just painting a giant target on top of our campus in preparation for the second coming.

[smac97]

As one who is a recovering pornography/sex addict, I hope my thoughts may be relevant. In the book He Restoreth My Soul: Understanding and Breaking the Chemical and Spiritual Chains of Pornography Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, LDS Neurosurgeon Donald Hilton discusses the individual and collective damage of increased sexual permissiveness. The increasing tolerance for pornography is a major cause, and paradoxically, also a major symptom, of this permissiveness.

As popular culture, the media, and "psychologists" continue to parrot Satan's lies, I believe that, in the words of The Family: A Proclamation to the World, "the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets."

This said, I have to add that it is absolutely crucial that we learn to separate the sin from the sinner. I know what it is like to feel like a leper or pariah. The statistics on pornography addiction, for example, are startling, and it is believed that the statistics are the same in the Church as without. I guarantee you that 30-50 percent of the brethren in your ward, and even some of the sisters, are secretly battling this awful demon. Shame is one of Satan's greatest weapons. They need our love, our strength, and our compassion. Many were addicted as young children, before they even had the ability to realize what was going on. I love the following quote from President Kimball:

Jesus saw sin as wrong but also was able to see sin as springing from deep and unmet needs on the part of the sinner. This permitted him to condemn the sin without condemning the individual. We can show forth our love for others even when we are called upon to correct them. We need to be able to look deeply enough into the lives of others to see the basic causes for their failures and shortcomings.

Well spoken. Thank you for sharing this.

-Smac

[thesometimesaint]

Yawn. Like you ever do that when you quote from one of your hack job liberal sites.

I've never made any bones about my bias. I mostly link to established science journals and organizations. But I guess to some those are hack job liberal sites. You know. Science has a definite liberal bias. Other times I link to Wiki for a basic understanding of the subject. But I guess to some that is a hack job liberal site.

[drums12]

Two men in my ward, I believe it was in F & T meeting, spoke about their porn addition, one was going to go on a mission but for health reasons stayed home, the other, a very active family man. Both are who I'd have never thought would ever do that sort of thing. Thank you for pointing out the problems we are having. With the internet at our fingertips it's a terrible curse. I know that some believe the LDS take it too seriously by talking about it constantly and admonishing our youth against it that they think it makes the youth curious about it and then try it. Who knows, but it is definitely a problem.

Every situation is different, but in many cases the youth is introduced to it unintentionally. The average age of exposure for boys is I believe 9 years old, according to He Restoreth My Soul. By the way, I believe every parent needs a copy of this book. If you think "my child would never do that" you're in denial. Pornographers are very good at pushing their smut on those who are underage. Likewise, if your children have cell phones with picture/internet capacity, you should be monitoring it. Sexting is very common between teenagers, and worse, many predators and teenagers. The book is available at Deseret Book, as well as salifeline.org and is in kindle form on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/He-Restoreth-My-Soul-ebook/dp/B009WTXC4G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1362593829&sr=8-1&keywords=he+restoreth+my+soul

[wenglund]

I appreciate and agree with the sentiments of the OP.

In fact, I had started a similar thread last week in which I mentioned that the Chicago Public Schools were planning to teach sex education starting in kindergarten. To me, this, along with other things like what is mentioned in the OP, are alarming!

The thread was closed because, as a way of introducing the subject, I suggested that the gay movement was a contributing factor in our slipping as a society down the slope. So, be careful what you say about homosexuality in relation to this topic since gay advocates here can use it as an excuse to get offended and game the mods and the board, and silence opposing voices.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited March 6, 2013 by wenglund

[Calm]

The thread was closed because, as a way of introducing the subject, I suggested that the gay movement was a contributing factor in our slipping as a society down the slope.

I was under the impression it was the connection of homosexuality to "normalization of pedophilia", but I could be wrong.

[smac97]

I appreciate and agree with the sentiments of the OP.

In fact, I had started a similar thread last week in which I mentioned that the Chicago Public Schools were planning to teach sex education starting in kindergarten. To me, this, along with other things like what is mentioned in the OP, are alarming!

The thread was closed because, as a way of introducing the subject, I suggested that the gay movement was a contributing factor in our slipping as a society down the slope. So, be careful what you say about homosexuality in relation to this topic since gay advocates here can use it as an excuse to get offended and game the mods and the board, and silence opposing voices.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Social acceptance of extra-marital sexual activity (fornication and adultery) has also been a significant contributing factor to this downward slide. However, there is no organized and funded activist movement advocating for broader socio-legal acceptance of such behavior, as there is in the "gay rights movement."

Thanks,

-Smac

[Walden]

I appreciate and agree with the sentiments of the OP.

In fact, I had started a similar thread last week in which I mentioned that the Chicago Public Schools were planning to teach sex education starting in kindergarten. To me, this, along with other things like what is mentioned in the OP, are alarming!

The thread was closed because, as a way of introducing the subject, I suggested that the gay movement was a contributing factor in our slipping as a society down the slope. So, be careful what you say about homosexuality in relation to this topic since gay advocates here can use it as an excuse to get offended and game the mods and the board, and silence opposing voices.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Please Wade, do not again poison the well of an otherwise worthwhile topic with anti-gay sentiments that have nothing to do with the OP. We get it, you abhor homosexuality and consider it will lead to the downfall of Western Civilization as we know it.

[smac97]

Please Wade, do not again poison the well of an otherwise worthwhile topic with anti-gay sentiments that have nothing to do with the OP. We get it, you abhor homosexuality and consider it will lead to the downfall of Western Civilization as we know it.

First, labeling Wade's comments as "anti-gay" and "poison(ing) the well" is itself a well-poisoning maneuver. So let 's not do that.

Second, I do not think homosexual behavior will per se "lead to the downfall of Western Civilization," but it is certainly a contributing factor (as is the proliferation of inappropriate heterosexual sexual behavior).

Third, I do not think it is appropriate to privilege homosexual behavior from critique, but that appears what you are trying to do. So let's not do that.

Thanks,

-Smac

[wenglund]

Please Wade, do not again poison the well of an otherwise worthwhile topic with anti-gay sentiments that have nothing to do with the OP. We get it, you abhor homosexuality and consider it will lead to the downfall of Western Civilization as we know it.

It was nice of you to so quickly provide this clear attempt to game the system in a way that underscores my warning. We'll see if it works. No need to do more. The thread has been derailed enough.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited March 6, 2013 by wenglund

[Walden]

The LDS Church takes a lot of flak for its teachings about the Law of Chastity. I have noticed that, during the last several years, a lot of attention has been directed to the Church's position on homosexuality. However, the Law of Chastity addresses more than that. As Elder Ballard put it: "We follow Jesus Christ by living the law of chastity. God gave this commandment, and He has never revoked or changed it. This law is clear and simple. No one is to engage in sexual relationships outside the bounds the Lord has set. This applies to homosexual behavior of any kind and to heterosexual relationships outside of marriage. It is a sin to violate the law of chastity."

These standards used to be fairly mainstream in society, but they are increasingly characterized as out-of-touch, puritannical, even harmful and wrong. I think we can best respond to such claims by doing our utmost to live the Law of Chastity, and thus reduce or eliminate one of the most effective rhetorical arguments presently used against it: that its advocates are hypocrites who talk the talk but do not walk the walk. The "Corianton Effect," if you will. We can also focus on living the Restored Gospel in all respects, with particular emphasis on the first and second "great commandments" to love God and to love our neighbors. As we do this, we present the most compelling argument in favor of the Restored Gospel.

Alas, the world will, in the main, continue to slip further into wickedness. Not all at once, but in degrees. We are on a slippery slope, and I think contravening the Law of Chastity is one of the quickest ways to hasten this descent.

Here is a case in point:

Henry Jones, Sr. put it well: "My boy, we are pilgrims in an unholy land."

I am sure that my parents worried about their children as the world worsened while I was growing up. I have that same worry now about my children and the world in which they are growing up. But the Restored Gospel helps me avoid despair. I am grateful for it.

Thoughts?

Thank you,

-Smac

In an effort to get back on topic, my take is that you conflate the "flak for [the LDS] teachings about the Law of Chastity," when in my experience, even outside the church, there are many people whio admire such a stance, even those critical of the other teachings of the LDS faith. The flak is not the result of teaching about the Law of Chastity, the flak is when the church attempts to legislate their Law of Chastity upon the masses. Yes, there is sometimes snickering and the idea that the ideals of the Law of Chastity are somewhat antiquated, but in general, I think that comes from a smaller, though more vocal, crowd than those who admire the LDS church and it's teachings on family and sexual purity.

Regarding the "slippery slope" descent into" wickedness", it appears that we have been on this slippery slope since Adam partook of the fruit, so no real news there.

[smac97]

In an effort to get back on topic, my take is that you conflate the "flak for [the LDS] teachings about the Law of Chastity," when in my experience, even outside the church, there are many people whio admire such a stance, even those critical of the other teachings of the LDS faith.

Some admire the Church's teachings, some do not.

The flak is not the result of teaching about the Law of Chastity,

Um, yes, it is. The LDS Church takes a lot of flak from various quarters for its teachings on the Law of Chastity.

the flak is when the church attempts to legislate their Law of Chastity upon the masses.

Malarky. The Church doesn't tell its members how to vote.

And implicit in your statement is the notion that religious groups are not allowed to air their views about social matters. That they are, in effect, second class citizens who have a lessened right to Free Speech than do other individuals or groups. That is a pernicious concept. The LDS Church has just as much a right to express its viewpoint as anyone else.

Regarding the "slippery slope" descent into" wickedness", it appears that we have been on this slippery slope since Adam partook of the fruit, so no real news there.

The slope is cyclical, and repeats itself in various times and in various cultures. In our time and in our culture, we are slipping into types of depravity which have heretofore been unexplored. An ostensibly venerable university is openly advocating for bestiality, incest, etc. That hasn't happened before.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Walden]

Some admire the Church's teachings, some do not.

Um, yes, it is. The LDS Church takes a lot of flak from various quarters for its teachings on the Law of Chastity.

Malarky. The Church doesn't tell its members how to vote.

And implicit in your statement is the notion that religious groups are not allowed to air their views about social matters. That they are, in effect, second class citizens who have a lessened right to Free Speech than do other individuals or groups. That is a pernicious concept. The LDS Church has just as much a right to express its viewpoint as anyone else.

The slope is cyclical, and repeats itself in various times and in various cultures. In our time and in our culture, we are slipping into types of depravity which have heretofore been unexplored. An ostensibly venerable university is openly advocating for bestiality, incest, etc. That hasn't happened before.

Thanks,

-Smac

Without derailing this into a Prop 8 topic, I will just go ahead and agree to disagree about whether or not the LDS church communicates to it's members how to vote on particular topics.

Of course the LDS church has a right under the First Amendment to air it's views, but there is a slippery slope (to use your terminology) between airing views and political activism by a tax-exempt organization.

And I guess we both come away with different viewpoints of the article that you presented. I did not take away from it that Yale University is "openly advocating for bestiality, incest, etc." as you suggest. Where in the article do they advocate that students take up these practices? I came away with the impression that they are advocating that these practices do exist and that we shouldn't "automatically judge people who may have engaged in these sorts of activities," and instead are advocating for compassion and understanding.

And every passing generation laments that "In our time and in our culture, we are slipping into types of depravity which have heretofore been unexplored,".....my parents said as much, as did my grandparents as did their parents and grandparents. In fact, I can imagine that a middle-American living in, let's say, Philiadelphia in 1860, likely could have said the exact same thing when he/she heard that those Mormons out West were openly practicing polygamy.