Wear Pants To Church Day; And Other Cultural Dress Standards

[yootaw]

It wasn't in my last ward, where i was the YW's president. We actually had more money then the YM.

Because achievement days are also supposed to happen weekly as well and have defined activities. If that's not happening in your ward, then it's the fault of the local leaders.

Thanks - I am encouraged by your comments!

[Calm]

It wasn't in my last ward, where i was the YW's president. We actually had more money then the YM.

Our ward is equal as well. Two previous as well.

Because achievement days are also supposed to happen weekly as well and have defined activities. If that's not happening in your ward, then it's the fault of the local leaders.

Is this a new thing as when I was leader several years ago, we had it every other week. We had the defined awards and programs. I found it pretty comparable to when I worked with the Cub Scouts save the for the lack of uniforms and that stuff. I used some of the same ideas for it in fact (first aid kit, storytelling). Edited December 15, 2012 by calmoriah

[bluebell]

Our ward is equal as well. Two previous as well.

Is this a new thing as when I was leader several years ago, we had it every other week. We had the defined awards and programs. I found it pretty comparable to when I worked with the Cub Scouts save the for the lack of uniforms and that stuff. I used some of the same ideas for it in fact (first aid kit, storytelling).

Honestly i don't know. It's always been weekly when i've been aware of it but that might be a new thing, or something that is up to the discrection of the leader.

[Calm]

Activity Days (the current title from Handbook 2):

11.5.2

Activity Days

Where practical, the Primary may hold activity days for boys and girls ages 8 through 11. Leaders and teachers use the Faith in Godguidebooks as resources for activity days, supporting the work children and parents do at home to fulfill Faith in God requirements.

Activity days are held no more than twice each month. They may be held at the meetinghouse or in a home. As leaders determine the frequency and location of activity days, they consider the time constraints of the children’s families, travel distance and costs, children’s safety, and other local circumstances. Leaders ensure that activity days follow the guidelines in 11.8.1 and in chapter 13.

The children’s Primary teachers conduct activity days unless the bishopric calls separate activity days leaders.

Not sure how set in stone this is supposed to be. If your Primary leaders and the parents are okay with it, I don't see why it would be an issue.

http://www.lds.org/h...ry?lang=eng#115

After reading the section that follows on scouting, I am wondering if that should only be held twice a month as well as there is no indication that it should be held weekly and it states that it is a substitute for activity days where it is available.

Edited December 15, 2012 by calmoriah

[yootaw]

How does the budget for activity days compare to that of cub scouts in your experience?

[bluebell]

Activity Days (the current title from Handbook 2):

Not sure how set in stone this is supposed to be. If your Primary leaders and the parents are okay with it, I don't see why it would be an issue.

http://www.lds.org/h...ry?lang=eng#115

After reading the section that follows on scouting, I am wondering if that should only be held twice a month as well as there is no indication that it should be held weekly and it states that it is a substitute for activity days where it is available.

Like i said, they were held weekly in the wards where i've been aware of them (because of scheduling issues). Apparently, those were the leaders that were doing it wrong!

[yootaw]

Also, what is the equivalent to awards in activity days?

[Calm]

In order to keep costs down (I am assuming this from reading the guidelines on funding), Activity Days does not do all the fancy uniform stuff including awards for each achievement.

https://www.lds.org/callings/primary/leader-resources/frequently-asked-questions?lang=eng&query=%22activity+days%22#activity-days

What recognition and awards do children receive for the Faith in God program?

“At least twice a year, a Primary activity day (or a Cub Scout Pack meeting) should include opportunities for the children to share what they have learned and accomplished.

“When all required activities are completed, the Primary president and the bishop or branch president sign the Faith in God Award certificate on the last page of this [Faith in God] guidebook. A member of the bishopric, branch presidency, or Primary presidency recognizes the child’s accomplishment in Primary.

“Parents and leaders should help the children understand that the joy of living the gospel is the most important reward” (Faith in Godguidebook [2003], 19).

[juliann]

Let's set aside for a moment the fact that the way feminist theory uses patriarchy is much closer to a propoganda mythos intentionally designed to create a culture of victimization and fear then it is to a dispassionate historical analysis. (Cue incoming standard deflection responses of "you just don't understand" and "you are insulting women.")

Instead, I'll just point out that it's kind of hard to believe they even have a message, much less take it seriously, when they are using tactics from the internet troll's playbook.

I'll make a prediction: Come sunday morning the participants will go to church and no one will either notice or care. Come sunday night the participants, unable to relate any true stories about how people got on their case, will fabricate some. Keep an eye out for undisprovable phrases like "I could feel people staring at me," and "I felt uncomfortable and unwelcomed."

When something hits newspapers in other countries, what in the world would it take to get you to take it seriously?? What is so difficult about addressing what is actually going on? There is enough here that you don't need to make it up. The troll accusation is just bizarre and could just as well be laid on you.

My disconnect with the Mormon feminists is in their insistence on bringing the word feminism into this at all. It is an automatic fail. I also have a problem identifying with those who let some men on Sunday determine the quality of their life the rest of the week. But I do not refuse to see the real problems they identify that are becoming ever more glaring as the church has gained international attention. I am able to have a real live conversation without demeaning them. It feels like quite an accomplishment after what I read here.

I read this lady's blog. She doesn't seem dangerous at all. I think that she is being a bit too disingenuous about her goals after the ruckus. He complaint originated with frustration at the inaction of the feminist movement, as in nothing had really changed after all the years. (She is young, though...I have seen a lot change but it is so slow it would be hard to notice especially since we are not only already behind but our culture has become more aware of women at a much faster clip).

What she did was brilliant, actually. Unfortunately, because of her youth she doesn't seem able to handle the consequences. But I don't think she is the problem. I think the problem is the unrelenting nastiness that has no place in the gospel I didn't see that from her. She was quite a contrast to this board when it comes to that. It makes me wish there was a movement to wear pants to support those who are the target for Mormons who think it is their calling to be unbelievably cruel to large groups of women and to repel those who might have any thought of looking into our religion.

[yootaw]

In order to keep costs down (I am assuming this from reading the guidelines on funding), Activity Days does not do all the fancy uniform stuff including awards for each achievement.

https://www.lds.org/..."#activity-days

Does this seem equitable?

[Erin15]

I also have a problem identifying with those who let some men on Sunday determine the quality of their life the rest of the week.

Do you really think so little about The Lord's anointed?

The troll accusation is just bizarre.

Hardly, in fact the more I look into it the more that label fits. They set out to intentionally agitate people, and people became agitated. When people became agitated, they point out how cruel and mean the agitated people are being towards them, making themselves out the be the victims.

That is classic troll behavior, and I would argue that you are participating in it as well, whether consciously or subconscsiously, by blaming the people who are agitated instead of blaming the trolls who intentionally created the situation.

You need to review board guidelines before posting again. Mod.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Hestia

[Calm]

Does this seem equitable?

It is the same for boys if they are not in the Scouting program. The problem I see is it is the demands of the Scouting program.

[Calm]

Do you really think so little about The Lord's anointed?

You are completely twisting what Juliann stated.

[Erin15]

You are completely twisting what Juliann stated.

From comments she has made in the past in other threads, I'd say I was spot-on, but we will let her explain herself, hence the question mark in my post.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Erin15

[Erin15]

duplicate post

Edited December 15, 2012 by Erin15

[Calm]

From comments she has made in the past in other threads, I'd say I was spot-on, but we will let her explain herself, hence the question mark.

Then I would say you have been misreading her all along. But then I've had the opportunity and the blessing to get to know her alot better than just the message board. There have been studies done on the difficulty of interpreting what people write on the Internet correctly and unfortunately accuracy was less common than mistakes....

Wish I could remember where my favourite study for this was, will have to go looking for it again one of these days.

Edited December 15, 2012 by calmoriah

[juliann]

Do you really think so little about The Lord's anointed?

Yes, Erin. That is why I started FAIR and have been defending the church for the past 15+ years...and subject to much worse insults from anti-Mormons than even you can produce in the name of the gospel. You are having to scrape the bottom of the barrel to keep up the barrage of red herrings. Trust me, it is much easier and more in keeping with the gospel to simply try to understand those you disagree with. It may be a lesson long in coming, but nobody has died from having to acknowledge that the other guy may have a point here and there.

[yootaw]

It is the same for boys if they are not in the Scouting program. The problem I see is it is the demands of the Scouting program.

What conditions would boys not be in the scouting program? Do we do scouting internationally?

I agree that the demands of scouting are problematic. Can we agree that as it exists, the cub scout program vs achievement days is an example of inequity? It may be justified inequity but that is not the same as equal. (For the record, I don't think that the inequity is justified.)

[Erin15]

Yes, Erin. That is why I started FAIR and have been defending the church for the past 15+ years...and subject to much worse insults from anti-Mormons than even you can produce in the name of the gospel. You are having to scrape the bottom of the barrel to keep up the barrage of red herrings. Trust me, it is much easier and more in keeping with the gospel to simply try to understand those you disagree with. It may be a lesson long in coming, but nobody has died from having to acknowledge that the other guy may have a point here and there.

You accuse me of red herrings, yet here you are playing the victim card instead of actually answering my question. Instead of deflecting, why not say what you really mean?

I'll ask it again: What did you mean when you said,

I also have a problem identifying with those who let some men on Sunday determine the quality of their life the rest of the week.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Erin15

[Calm]

What conditions would boys not be in the scouting program? Do we do scouting internationally?

There are many places that don't do scouting due to a variety of reasons including the law of the land requiring coed troops. One friend from Finland recently mentioned this.

Can we agree that as it exists, the cub scout program vs achievement days is an example of inequity?

If by that you mean the Scouts get to wear fancy uniforms and badges and Activity Days participants don't. Edited December 15, 2012 by calmoriah

[mercyngrace]

Activity Days (the current title from Handbook 2):

Not sure how set in stone this is supposed to be. If your Primary leaders and the parents are okay with it, I don't see why it would be an issue.

http://www.lds.org/h...ry?lang=eng#115

After reading the section that follows on scouting, I am wondering if that should only be held twice a month as well as there is no indication that it should be held weekly and it states that it is a substitute for activity days where it is available.

Cal,

I've been working with scouts for a couple of years now and last year, we were told that we could only meet twice a month as dens and once for pack meeting which is typically a family event. Effectively, we went to the same schedule as Activity Days.

MnG

[Calm]

Cal,

I've been working with scouts for a couple of years now and last year, we were told that we could only meet twice a month as dens and once for pack meeting which is typically a family event. Effectively, we went to the same schedule as Activity Days.

MnG

Makes sense since the limit was placed due to concerns about it being a burden for families to find the time and transportation.

[yootaw]

There are many places that don't do scouting due to a variety of reasons including the law of the land requiring coed troops. One friend from Finland recently mentioned this.

If by that you mean the Scouts get to wear fancy uniforms and badges and Activity Days participants don't.

Interesting -- I didn't know that there were laws requiring coed troops in other countries.

Fancy uniforms, badges - yes, if that's how you would like to categorize it. I think that there is clear evidence of gender inequality. Most of the conversation around this topic seems to be centered around justifying the inequalities. I think that this makes it difficult to acknowledge that there may be a real problem to be dealt with.

[Calm]

Interesting -- I didn't know that there were laws requiring coed troops in other countries.

Fancy uniforms, badges - yes, if that's how you would like to categorize it. I think that there is clear evidence of gender inequality. Most of the conversation around this topic seems to be centered around justifying the inequalities. I think that this makes it difficult to acknowledge that there may be a real problem to be dealt with.

Activities can be the same, Activity Day leaders get to design their own programs for the most part. I did some that were identical as when I was Akela (Canadian Cub Scout leader). So if activities are the same, leadership numbers are the same, number of days in attendance are the same (or are at least supposed to be as Maidservant pointed out), tell me what is different besides the uniforms and badges? Edited December 15, 2012 by calmoriah

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I won't.

I will ware them out of mercy for others who do not want to see my pasty wite legs.