Family As The Most Important Unit In Society

[The Nehor]

A more respectful one or did you not read Wade's post?

I did and I am not sure what kind of respect you expected. Do you also imagine that you could go to the Vatican and have a respectful discussion about your positive experiences with birth control or to Mecca for a discussion of pork recipes?

[Damien the Leper]

I did and I am not sure what kind of respect you expected. Do you also imagine that you could go to the Vatican and have a respectful discussion about your positive experiences with birth control or to Mecca for a discussion of pork recipes?

Thanks Nehor. I'm glad you could correct my false hope. My hope was that LDS could stop making insulting comparisons between homosexual couples and other types of relationships. Afterall, it is better to demean the sanctity of strong, loving and charity based relationship that is not 'Holy Hetero'.

All joking aside, the stupidity behind comparing a homosexual relationship and that of a pet owner and his/her pet shows the full magnitude of ignorance and bigotry.

[The Nehor]

Thanks Nehor. I'm glad you could correct my false hope. My hope was that LDS could stop making insulting comparisons between homosexual couples and other types of relationships. Afterall, it is better to demean the sanctity of strong, loving and charity based relationship that is not 'Holy Hetero'.

All joking aside, the stupidity behind comparing a homosexual relationship and that of a pet owner and his/her pet shows the full magnitude of ignorance and bigotry.

Glad I could help.

[Damien the Leper]

Probably exactly the one he got, if he is intelligent, which meant that he wanted it by making that post.

By the way, Valentinus, Joseph Stalin made male homosexuality a criminal offense punishable by 5 years in prison with hard labor. So if your friends were living in the worker's paradise symbolized by your profile picture, they'd be in the gulag. Lucky for them they live in America.

No communist country allows same-sex marriages or unions; only the democracies do. Perhaps you should rethink your communist stance?

Stalin is hardly the model for pure Communism. I don't see why you even brought him up other than to disuade me from my political stance. It didn't work.

Cuba, with government support (Fidel Castro & Co.), celebrates homosexual rights and relationships every year and they are Communist.

[Skylla]

This thread is not about same sex marriage. Stay on topic.

Skylla

[Damien the Leper]

This thread is not about same sex marriage. Stay on topic.

Skylla

I didn't make the thread about same sex marriage. I gave a close reference for a model family and then it was bastardized by bigoted comments. Then it went downhill from there with the agenda of those who oppose the family and others like it.

[wenglund]

You really should stop with your illogical and very disrespectful comments simply because you do not approve of their relationship.

My comments weren't illogical or disrespectful, and I defy you to demonstrate otherwise. I was also silent as to whether I approved or disapproved of "their relationship." Clearly, you are projecting.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

...it was bastardized by bigoted comments.

CFR

Then it went downhill from there with the agenda of those who oppose the family and others like it.

CFR

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

All joking aside, the stupidity behind comparing a homosexual relationship and that of a pet owner and his/her pet shows the full magnitude of ignorance and bigotry.

I didn't compare homosexuality to the relationship between a pet owner and his pet. except as a parenthetical aside to point out that the relationships between pet owners and pets tend to be more loving and lasting than between homosexual. Rather, I used the loving relationship between a pet owner and his pet to illustrate the point that loving relationships alone aren't sufficient as a model for the human family. My comment was neither stupid, or ignorant, nor bigoted, though your reaction may ironically have been.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Damien the Leper]

Wade, it would do you well to not try to be coy or claim that you didn't do something when you did albeit backhandedly. I find it very disingenuous when you promote your propaganda/agenda in such a way that it seems you have done nothing wrong. The posters on this board are much smarter than that. The only CFR you need is the reference to your countless posts demonstrating your lack of respect and disdain for what you disapprove of. You hold the archives to your posts do your own research.

[The Nehor]

I didn't compare homosexuality to the relationship between a pet owner and his pet. except as a parenthetical aside to point out that the relationships between pet owners and pets tend to be more loving and lasting than between homosexual.

I recommend a quick check of the dictionary and looking up the word compare.

[california boy]

Wade, it would do you well to not try to be coy or claim that you didn't do something when you did albeit backhandedly. I find it very disingenuous when you promote your propaganda/agenda in such a way that it seems you have done nothing wrong. The posters on this board are much smarter than that. The only CFR you need is the reference to your countless posts demonstrating your lack of respect and disdain for what you disapprove of. You hold the archives to your posts do your own research.

I want to thank you for calling out Wade for his comment and continued attitudes towards gay relationships. To compare a gay relationship as being the same as a owner and his dog is disgusting. In the south it was not uncommon to see signs in restaurant windows stating "We do not serve negros, mexicans and dogs". Some people justify their prejudice by making those that they have feelings for less than human.

Your comment reminded me of a quote by Dr. Martin Luther King "We will remember less the words of our enemies than the silence of our friends." Thanks for speaking up. It is too bad more Mormons do not speak up against that kind of behavior.

Edited September 24, 2012 by california boy

[Damien the Leper]

I want to thank you for calling out Wade for his comment and continued attitudes towards gay relationships. To compare a gay relationship as being the same as a owner and his dog is disgusting. In the south it was not uncommon to see signs in restaurant windows stating "We do not serve negros, mexicans and dogs". Some people justify their prejudice by making those that they have feelings for less than human.

Your comment reminded me of a quote by Dr. Martin Luther King "We will remember less the words of our enemies than the silence of our friends." Thanks for speaking up. It is too bad more Mormons do not speak up against that kind of behavior.

You're very welcome. It's the same thing every single time and it's tiresome, drab, offensive, ignorant, merciless and hateful.

[TAO]

Anyways... back on topic!

To be quite honest, the area I'm most worried about with concern to the family is how people aren't willing to make it work as often. People are less willing to cooperate in these days and edge, and that can cause a lot of problems in families =/.

[WalkerW]

It seems clearer and clearer to me in my current position that our nation really is struggling as a direct result of the disintegration of the family.

I agree. See the following:

Mitch Pearlstein, From Family Collapse to America's Decline: The Educational, Economic, and Social Costs of Family Fragmentation (R&L Education, 2011).

James Q. Wilson, The Marriage Problem: How Our Culture Has Weakened Families (HarperCollins, 2002).

[WalkerW]

I personally find that families are more prone to disintegrate due to extreme hardship (struggling) rather than the other way around.

See the sources listed above.

[WalkerW]

Remember the phrase "children should be seen not heard"?

Apparently French parents take the above approach and get well-behaved children as a result:

Pamela Druckerman, "Why French Parents Are Superior," The Wall Street Journal (Feb. 4, 2012).

Given that my generation is incredibly self-absorbed, a little less talking and a bit more listening and learning may be in order. See Jean M. Twenge, Generation Me: Why Today's Young Americans Are More Confident, Assertive, Entitled--And More Miserable Than Ever Before (Free Press, 2006).

Edited September 24, 2012 by WalkerW

[Tacenda]

Apparently French parents take the above approach and get well-behaved children as a result:

Pamela Druckerman, "Why French Parents Are Superior," The Wall Street Journal (Feb. 4, 2012).

Given that my generation is incredibly self-absorbed, a little less talking and a bit more listening and learning may be in order. See Jean M. Twenge, Generation Me: Why Today's Young Americans Are More Confident, Assertive, Entitled--And More Miserable Than Ever Before (Free Press, 2006).

I've read this article before! I should have kept it it's so good. I liken it to the dog owner that doesn't act like the akeala so the dog has to take charge and bad behavoir follows. Maybe our children also behave badly when they have to be the adult when their parents don't take the lead. And they're clueless and feel less secure.

Thanks for posting it. I'll never look at the phrase, "children should be seen and not heard", the same again.

[WalkerW]

I think that heavy reliance on government services and funding has had a large influence in the failure of the families.

Glenn

You may be right. Arguably, it was this line of thinking that led to the welfare reform under Clinton.

For a more updated argument, see Bryan Caplan, Scott Beaulier, "Behavioral Economics and Perverse Effects of the Welfare State," Kyklos 60:4 (2007).

[Calm]

I personally find that families are more prone to disintegrate due to extreme hardship (struggling) rather than the other way around.

My memory says that while poverty can contribute to divorce, divorce is a huge cause of poverty for women and children.

I don't have a clue how accurate this report is since all it contains is a list of conclusions and nothing about method due to it being a summary...not having any references is frustrating, just happened to be the first I came across dealing with the issues:

http://downloads.frc.org/EF/EF11E70.pdf?utm_source=LifeSiteNews.com+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=bed4248339-LifeSiteNews_com_Intl_Full_Text_05_30_2011&utm_medium=email

Edited September 24, 2012 by calmoriah

[wenglund]

Wade, it would do you well to not try to be coy or claim that you didn't do something when you did albeit backhandedly. I find it very disingenuous when you promote your propaganda/agenda in such a way that it seems you have done nothing wrong. The posters on this board are much smarter than that. The only CFR you need is the reference to your countless posts demonstrating your lack of respect and disdain for what you disapprove of. You hold the archives to your posts do your own research.

Simply rephrasing your false accusations does not satisfy the CFRs. Thus far you have been the only one guilty of disrespect, insults, and making things personal. Either satisfy the CFRs or retract your false accusations.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

I recommend a quick check of the dictionary and looking up the word compare.

I am already familiar with the word. What is your point?

Better yet, did you get my point?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

I want to thank you for calling out Wade for his comment and continued attitudes towards gay relationships. To compare a gay relationship as being the same as a owner and his dog is disgusting.

CFR where I said that gay relationships are the same as an owner and his dog. (Hint: I didn't, and never intended to. In fact, if anything someone may well extrapolate that in some ways the relationship between owners and pets are BETTER than relationships between gays and even relationships between heterosexual couples.)

This is not to say that, had I intended to, such comparisons couldn't rightly be made between aspects of gay relationships and human/animal relationships. They can. Literature, including the Bible, are filled with similar legitimate analogies. Christ referred to himself as a hen who gathers her chicks. And, he referred to his disciples as sheep, with him as the shepherd. He even spoke of Canaanites as dogs.

Sadly, by you and Val mistakenly assuming my intent was to compare gay relationships to owner/pet relationships, it is unclear whether you grasped my actual intent--which, to reiterate, was that the preferred model for the human family ought to be based on more than just loving and caring interactions, and should rightly be based on such vital aspects as the perpetuation and progress of the species.

I will ignore your flawed comparison between gays and racial discrimination since it is off topic.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[The Nehor]

I am already familiar with the word. What is your point?

Better yet, did you get my point?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

You claim that you were not comparing the two; you were just discussing the two having similar attributes. What do you think the word "compare" means?

[wenglund]

You claim that you were not comparing the two; you were just discussing the two having similar attributes.

Where did I claim to be discussing that the two had similar attributes--except as a parenthetical aside?

Granted, the way I juxtaposed Val's statement with mine, one may reasonably extrapolate such comparisons. However, that wasn't my intent. Instead, I simply wished to make the point that love in a relationship (of any sort), itself, is not sufficient to make it the model for the human family. Rather, other critical aspects, like perpetuation and progress of the species, should also be included.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited September 24, 2012 by wenglund