KevinG Posted September 14, 2012 Posted September 14, 2012 By joining our Church. You win the thread!
Saints Alive Posted September 15, 2012 Author Posted September 15, 2012 By joining our Church. That would be great. I personally don't have a problem with evangelicals trying to convert me. I do wish that they would go about it in a more civil manner. Like I said before, tell me what your religion can do for me, not whats wrong with mine.
Saints Alive Posted September 15, 2012 Author Posted September 15, 2012 I don't think this is appropriate at all given Saints' past history. You should review the content of his posts before jumping to this conclusions.And the vulgarity is above you, please remove it for everyone's sake. thank you.
Carborendum Posted September 15, 2012 Posted September 15, 2012 I've had odd experiences when some stranger would come up to me or wave me over and begin a religious discussion. I was more than happy to accomodate. We would go over our beliefs in Christ and the Bible. Sometimes, we'd discuss prophecies and their meaning today. I could usually tell by some speech patterns that they were evangelicals rather than Catholic, LDS, Methodist, Lutheran, etc.Most of the time, none of them asked if I was a Mormon. So, I didn't even think about what sect either of us belonged to. I was just having a nice conversation with a fellow Christian.The thing is that even when we disagreed on some interpretations of Biblical passages (including some ideas that are uniquely LDS) not once did they simply say I was wrong or not a Christian. They simply had disagreements with me. But we were still Brothers.The bottom line is that they don't even care so much about our doctrine being different. That isn't why we're "wrong". That's just a cover. They care that we're Mormons. "Mormons are wrong"--regardless of what we agree or disagree on.
Kenngo1969 Posted September 15, 2012 Posted September 15, 2012 That would be great. I personally don't have a problem with evangelicals trying to convert me. I do wish that they would go about it in a more civil manner. Like I said before, tell me what your religion can do for me, not whats wrong with mine.I'm at a complete loss for how you think the material you linked to is an advancement beyond the usual anti-Mormon tripe in that it "tells [you] what [his] religion can do for [you], not what[']s wrong with yours." As long as the starting point is, essentially, "Members of the church are completely ignorant of how evil Mormonism is, and therefore we must save them," it makes no difference that the language is somewhat different than other such overtures. Again, tell me why you expect this effort to succeed to a greater extent than all of the others, as long as its purveyor cannot imagine (however unlikely) at least one universe in an infinite number of all possible universes in which Mormonism's claims could possibly be true.
Saints Alive Posted September 15, 2012 Author Posted September 15, 2012 The bottom line is that they don't even care so much about our doctrine being different. That isn't why we're "wrong". That's just a cover. They care that we're Mormons. "Mormons are wrong"--regardless of what we agree or disagree on. That is very true. Its very much an us vs them thing. If you really got down to you would find evangelicals don't like mainline Christians either they just have less to disagree with them about.
Tacenda Posted September 15, 2012 Posted September 15, 2012 That is very true. Its very much an us vs them thing. If you really got down to you would find evangelicals don't like mainline Christians either they just have less to disagree with them about.Your statement is very true! When I've listened to some online they aren't as vehemently against Catholics but put them alongside the Mormons very often.
Calm Posted September 15, 2012 Posted September 15, 2012 I've had odd experiences when some stranger would come up to me or wave me over and begin a religious discussion....Totally not fair. I tried for years to get anyone interested enough to discuss religion with me (beside my mom from whom I picked up the habit). Not till I found the internet was I really successful, not even among LDS...at least not in the way I was interested (in a more academic fashion). 2
mfbukowski Posted September 15, 2012 Posted September 15, 2012 Oh man.I would love to rip that guy apart, but after all, that would not be "Christian".
MiserereNobis Posted September 15, 2012 Posted September 15, 2012 Your statement is very true! When I've listened to some online they aren't as vehemently against Catholics but put them alongside the Mormons very often.Yes, us Catholics giggle when the EVs say we're not Christian and call us a cult I guess we're the biggest and oldest cult in Christendom... 1
Kenngo1969 Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 Saints Ailive, I would be interested in anything you have to say regarding my #30, above, if you're so inclined.
Kenngo1969 Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 Saints Ailive, I would be interested in anything you have to say regarding my #30, above, if you're so inclined.[Crickets chirping]
Kenngo1969 Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 For better examples of how non-LDS Christians should engage members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, there are far, far better examples than this guy: Pastor Greg Johnson (I don't know for sure, but I suspect this guy would pillory the good pastor), Richard Mouw, perhaps Craig Blomberg, and, on an academic level Paul Owen and Carl Mosser.This guy shouldn't be held up as any kind of an example of how to engage Mrmons. This guy and his ilk would pillory not only Pastor Johnson, but probably all of the above.
coolrok7 Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 I encountered some missionaries in Orange (Ca.) on my way home from EMFJ, (I volunteer there every fourth Saturday). I saw when I walked up to them that they had a board with pictures on it and a table with some Book of Mormons and a few pamphlets. They were there to share with others their beliefs. I went up and introduced myself. We started talking which of course led them to ask me if I had read the BofM.I said I had after a vacation back in 1966 in the mountains above Salt Lake city. I had remembered later that summer reading one that was given to us on the tour of Temple Square. I told them my impression was that it read like the KJV.After reading it later more in depth I had specific problems with its teachings as another vein of claimed authority which is at the heart of the matter. I later had inquired at the local Institute of Religion and had a conversation with the director (I had been listening to Dr. martin on the local radio station where I began hearing things that bothered me just like earlier in my life from Jehovah's Witnesses saying a lot of the same things). He sent some missionaries to talk with me. It was brief as I was about to get married and leaving for Tulsa to attend schooling (Spartan School of Aeronautics).That started a very sincere effort in giving Mormons the opportunity to share with me their beliefs. I learned over time that a lot of what Dr. Martin was saying was in fact true of what Mormons actually believe/are taught by the General Authorities. A lot of which I believe is counter to what the Bible teaches in its historical context.The missionary doing the most talking of course objected to what I had to say but I assured him that I could back up what I was telling him. We ended on a positive note (he was unsettled by some of the things I was sharing where what I believe as a Christian is misrepresented by those same general Authorities) in that I told them all that it was an honorable thing to be out sharing their faith. We shook hands and I told them I might drop in one Sunday to continue our discussion.
thesometimesaint Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 coolrock:UHH NO. The late unlamented Walter Martin was as fraudulent as his PH.D.
coolrok7 Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 The late Dr. Martin like I said, said things that were true concerning what Mormons are taught/believe. As to the charge of his degrees being fraudulent you can think what you want about the degree (as long as its true) but he did teach correctly about Mormonism.
coolrok7 Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 You of course would disagree but it doesn't change the argument.
swfarnsworth Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 Yes, us Catholics giggle when the EVs say we're not Christian and call us a cult I guess we're the biggest and oldest cult in Christendom...According to Matt Slick, an Evangelical Calvinist and the writer for CARM (a website known for being loving and tolerant of all people*), Catholics are simply apostate, but still qualify as a non-cultic Christian faith. He still considers Mormonism a non-Christian cult, but I wear Mr. Slick's disapproval as a badge of honor.*I almost threw up writing that
coolrok7 Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 As a Christian, Missouri Synod Lutheran, I would only disagree with Roman Catholics when they assert things that I don't find Biblical. I wouldn't necessarily consider them not Christian but like all, on an individual basis, not a blanket condemnation.
Vance Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 (I had been listening to Dr. martin on the local radio station where I began hearing things that bothered me just like earlier in my life from Jehovah's Witnesses saying a lot of the same things). . . . I learned over time that a lot of what Dr. Martin was saying was in fact true of what Mormons actually believe/are taught by the General Authorities.I can see what is wrong with your perception.
coolrok7 Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 Not a perception but based on what is taught.
Carborendum Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 Saints Ailive, I would be interested in anything you have to say regarding my #30, above, if you're so inclined. Ken,I believe you were referring to #31. My post was #30.
Carborendum Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 Totally not fair. I tried for years to get anyone interested enough to discuss religion with me (beside my mom from whom I picked up the habit). Not till I found the internet was I really successful, not even among LDS...at least not in the way I was interested (in a more academic fashion).Cal,Trust me, it is not the most comforting feeling to realize that complete strangers consider you so non-threatening that they will immediately get into a religious discussion with you. It makes me realize that if a crimminal had malicious intent, I would be a likely target. That doesn't make me feel at peace.
Calm Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 Cal,Trust me, it is not the most comforting feeling to realize that complete strangers consider you so non-threatening that they will immediately get into a religious discussion with you. It makes me realize that if a crimminal had malicious intent, I would be a likely target. That doesn't make me feel at peace.Somehow I doubt it is a non-threatening appearance that drives people to get into these conversations with you as if that was all that was required, I should have people standing in line to talk to me.
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