How Do You Obey A Fallible Prophet With "Exactness"?

[zerinus]

CFR. Where does the Church claim LDS scripture to be infallible?

LDS scripture claims that LDS scripture is infallible. I have answered that question so many times on this board that I am sick to death of answering it. See here for an example.

P.S. And here are some more:

http://www.mormondia...entry1209059971

http://www.mormondia...entry1209043700

http://www.mormondia...entry1209035169

http://www.mormondia...entry1208979490

http://www.mormondia...entry1208978603

If you guys don't agree with my reasons or explanations, why don't you say so? If you do, why do you keep asking?

P.P.S. Here is another:

http://www.mormondia...entry1209169157

Perhaps I should write a Blog post on it and in the future refer everyone to that post.

Edited September 5, 2012 by zerinus

[mfbukowski]

Nevermind.

Edited September 5, 2012 by mfbukowski

[volgadon]

LDS scripture claims that LDS scripture is infallible. I have answered that question so many times on this board that I am sick to death of answering it. See here for an example.

P.S. And here are some more:

http://www.mormondia...entry1209059971

http://www.mormondia...entry1209043700

http://www.mormondia...entry1209035169

http://www.mormondia...entry1208979490

http://www.mormondia...entry1208978603

You'll have to remain sick to death, as you are clearly wrong.

[mfbukowski]

I can't imagine what the purpose of an open canon would be if scripture is infallible. The two are contradictory.

[zerinus]

You'll have to remain sick to death, as you are clearly wrong.

That doesn't help much unless you can tell me why.

Edited September 5, 2012 by zerinus

[Tacenda]

That doesn't help much unless you can tell me why.

I know for a fact you won't take me serious but I've got to tell you, you are setting yourself up for a big fall by taking this stance. I was much like yourself about prophets and scripture being infallible and look what happened!!

[volgadon]

That doesn't help much unless you can tell me why.

It won't help, as you will ignore any answers, but here goes. The title page of the BoM, the numerous revisions to the D&C, the JST project, an entire book of the canon considered profane, part of the PoGP removed from later editions, the Holy Ghost doesn't dwell in us, etc., none of these show infallibility.

[zerinus]

I know for a fact you won't take me serious but I've got to tell you, you are setting yourself up for a big fall by taking this stance.

Good, I am looking forwsard to it. Unfortunately it hasen't happened yet.

[zerinus]

It won't help, as you will ignore any answers, but here goes. The title page of the BoM, the numerous revisions to the D&C, the JST project, an entire book of the canon considered profane, part of the PoGP removed from later editions, the Holy Ghost doesn't dwell in us, etc., none of these show infallibility.

Then you haven't read any of my posts, and don't know what infallibility means.

Edited September 5, 2012 by zerinus

[volgadon]

Then you haven't read any of my posts, and don't know what infallibility means.

Rather, you haven't the foggiest of the difference between authoritative and infallible.

[volgadon]

Also, the last time I checked, "we see through a glass, darkly," was part of our canon.

Edited September 5, 2012 by volgadon

[zerinus]

Rather, you haven't the foggiest of the difference between authoritative and infallible.

Nay, you don't know how to look up the dictionary. In the following references the words in italics belong to the original text. My own emphasis is typed in purple:

The American Heritage Dictionary

1. Incapable of erring: an infallible guide; an infallible source of information.

2. Incapable of failing; certain: an infallible antidote; an infallible rule.

3. Roman Catholic Church Incapable of error in expounding doctrine on faith or morals.

Collins English Dictionary

1. not fallible; not liable to error

2. not liable to failure; certain; sure an infallible cure

3. completely dependable or trustworthy

Dictionary.com

1. absolutely trustworthy or sure: an infallible rule.

2. unfailing in effectiveness or operation; certain: an infallible remedy.

3. not fallible; exempt from liability to error, as persons, their judgment, or pronouncements: an infallible principle.

4. Roman Catholic Church. immune from fallacy or liability to error in expounding matters of faith or morals by virtue of the promise made by Christ to the Church.

World English Dictionary

1. not fallible; not liable to error

2. not liable to failure; certain; sure: an infallible cure

3. completely dependable or trustworthy

Merriam Webster Dictionary

1: incapable of error: unerring <an infallible memory>

2: not liable to mislead, deceive, or disappoint: certain <an infallible remedy>

3: incapable of error in defining doctrines touching faith or morals

The scriptures are more than authoritative. Church publications are authoritative. The Ensign is authoritative. Church Handbook of Instructions is authoritative. The word of the Lord is more. It is infallible.

Edited September 5, 2012 by zerinus

[zerinus]

Also, the last time I checked, "we see through a glass, darkly," was part of our canon.

We see through a glass darkly, not God, who gave us His infallible word.

Edited September 5, 2012 by zerinus

[sethpayne]

Nay, you don't know how to look up the dictionary. In the following references the words in italics belong to the original text. My own emphasis is typed in purple:

The American Heritage Dictionary

1. Incapable of erring: an infallible guide; an infallible source of information.

2. Incapable of failing; certain: an infallible antidote; an infallible rule.

3. Roman Catholic Church Incapable of error in expounding doctrine on faith or morals.

Collins English Dictionary

1. not fallible; not liable to error

2. not liable to failure; certain; sure an infallible cure

3. completely dependable or trustworthy

Dictionary.com

4. Roman Catholic Church. immune from fallacy or liability to error in expounding matters of faith or morals by virtue of the promise made by Christ to the Church.

World English Dictionary

1. not fallible; not liable to error

Merriam Webster Dictionary

1: incapable of error: unerring <an infallible memory>

The scriptures are more than authoritative. Church publications are authoritative. The Ensign is authoritative. Church Handbook of Instructions is authoritative. The word of the Lord is more. It is infallible.

How are you missing this?

Infallibile = incapable of error -- as you have shown above

Mormon, Nephi, Joseph Smith, the Articles of Faith, and many other LDS Authoritative sources disagree with you.

ANYTHING written down by men is prone to error. Period. End of story. What you are suggesting is no different than Bibliolotry. The WORD is perfect and takes on the infallible qualities of God himself! No.

God alone is infallible. Not his word *as translated and parsed through the maleable and error-ridden languages of men*.

Is the D&C only infallible in English? The BoM? Which version of the Bible is infallible?

How can I be having this conversation with a fellow Latter-day Saint. Our entire Church is built on the premise that scriptures are fallible!!! That's what got this whole thing rolling to begin with!

[Tacenda]

How are you missing this?

Infallibile = incapable of error -- as you have shown above

Mormon, Nephi, Joseph Smith, the Articles of Faith, and many other LDS Authoritative sources disagree with you.

ANYTHING written down by men is prone to error. Period. End of story. What you are suggesting is no different than Bibliolotry. The WORD is perfect and takes on the infallible qualities of God himself! No.

God alone is infallible. Not his word *as translated and parsed through the maleable and error-ridden languages of men*.

Is the D&C only infallible in English? The BoM? Which version of the Bible is infallible?

How can I be having this conversation with a fellow Latter-day Saint. Our entire Church is built on the premise that scriptures are fallible!!! That's what got this whole thing rolling to begin with!

If Zerinus believes the Bible to be the word of God, as he should, I shouldn't pray in church.

[sethpayne]

If Zerinus believes the Bible to be the word of God, as he should, I shouldn't pray in church.

And have your head covered.

[DBMormon]

My wife will have to marry my brother when I am gone.... there's an improvement

Ohh thats old testament... nevermind..

Edited September 5, 2012 by DBMormon

[mfbukowski]

Nay, you don't know how to look up the dictionary. ...

The scriptures are more than authoritative. Church publications are authoritative. The Ensign is authoritative. Church Handbook of Instructions is authoritative. The word of the Lord is more. It is infallible.

And of course dictionaries are also written by God and are infallible. How silly of us to not understand that. And everyone looks up every word in an infallible dictionary to make sure that the vague meaning in their minds are defined precisely and correspond precisely to the TRVTH.

So there can be no misinterpretations- words are infallible, dictionaries are infallible and scripture is infallible. There is no chance of misinterpretation- no possibility of error.

What a wonderful world this is! How simple everything is! Black, white- no grey- perfect clarity.

Ahhhhhh........

Edited September 5, 2012 by mfbukowski

[zerinus]

How are you missing this?

Infallibile = incapable of error -- as you have shown above

Mormon, Nephi, Joseph Smith, the Articles of Faith, and many other LDS Authoritative sources disagree with you.

ANYTHING written down by men is prone to error. Period. End of story. What you are suggesting is no different than Bibliolotry. The WORD is perfect and takes on the infallible qualities of God himself! No.

God alone is infallible. Not his word *as translated and parsed through the maleable and error-ridden languages of men*.

Is the D&C only infallible in English? The BoM? Which version of the Bible is infallible?

How can I be having this conversation with a fellow Latter-day Saint. Our entire Church is built on the premise that scriptures are fallible!!! That's what got this whole thing rolling to begin with!

If Zerinus believes the Bible to be the word of God, as he should, I shouldn't pray in church.

And have your head covered.

My wife will have to marry my brother when I am gone.... there's an improvement

Ohh thats old testament... nevermind..

Proverbs 18:

13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

I suggest you guys go back and read the links I had provided in post #151 carefully before responding--if you are expecting a further reply from me.

Edited September 5, 2012 by zerinus

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

1/10.

Cinepro is midly funny.

[Thunderfire]

I always thought it was better to follow a wrong, true prophet, then a right, false one.

This comment caught my attention. For me, we must never follow the prophet, we must always follow Jesus whom the prophet points us too. So even if a false prophet gave a true message, the message should be followed because it is still true. Following a true prophet who is giving a false message is never a good thing when the message is not of God. Just my thoughts!

[DBMormon]

Proverbs 18:

13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

I suggest you guys go back and read the links I had provided in post #151 carefully before responding--if you are expecting a further reply from me.

Zerinus, your setting up strawmen. The actual meaning of infalliable and the limited way you are using it are different. Also was D&C 5 infalliable before or after Joseph revised it. Scripture can be incorrect (Paul's council for women to remain silent) and still be scripture. But to say All scripture is infallible is to not recognize the difficulty man has in receiving God's perfect Word and then trying to communicate it in their imperfect language and understanding.

You are setting up a dichotomy where on one hand the Church Authoritative Infallible writings can never lead one outside the bounds of the gospel and on the other hand having to travel through mountains and valleys to explain the errors in scripture as not taking away from that same infallible authoritative source.....

Very few informed people would take the stand you are taking with the definitions, and that's why nobody is coming to grips with your explanation.

Edited September 5, 2012 by DBMormon

[KevinG]

#15 We believe that man can foul up the interpretation of any scripture no matter how plainly written by a Prophet of God and that this includes principley Evangelicals, Anti-Mormons and Arc Steadiers but is not limited to these groups.

[mfbukowski]

Proverbs 18:

13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

I suggest you guys go back and read the links I had provided in post #151 carefully before responding--if you are expecting a further reply from me.

Does that mean if we don't read it- you will not respond?

Hmmmmmm.....................

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

It is a very big deal. Joseph Smith didn't write D&C 98; God did.

Btw...Bible says the same.This of course means that we are held and pay for the sins of others.