Are Mormons Christian: Continue The Discussion

[GingerRed]

I am sure he would do a great job as a religion teacher at BYU, especially Book of Mormon 101.

Zerinus you are SO bad!! LOL

Edited September 7, 2012 by GingerRed

[Tacenda]

I think there is a big difference in where each side believes they'll end up when "saved". LDS believe they'll be saved but not live with God at first, this is where the works come in. EV's believe when they are saved they will live with God without works first. Of course I've heard it said over and over that EV's don't want to go out and sin for the free grace, they are more on the side of being so grateful for the gift of life, who would want to try to sin but believe they take Christ upon themselves and live in a regeneration process.

Sorry for speaking for you out there that are EV's, if I've got it wrong please correct as I'm just recalling what I've observed, outside looking in.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Tacenda

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

It has nothing to do with the fact that Rob makes a living managing a counter-cult ministry specializing in Mormons and a few other sects. He has assured me of that.

Right...)

[wenglund]

Perhaps my definition could be amended to say that a Mormon is anyone who affirms the Book of Mormon to be a scriptural revelation about God and Jesus and who self-identifies as a Mormon.

Consistency, then, would demand that you amend your definition of "Christian" to: anyone [or group] who affirms the New Testament to be a scriptural revelation about God and Jesus and who self-identify as a Christian. Right?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Well ....death?

We will all die...so no he does not.

[shalamabobbi]

Martin Luther handled the Epistle of James with a wave of the hand, terming it "an epistle of straw." Had he been able to do so, he would have removed it from the Canon.

Thanks for sharing that. That explains a lot..

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Here's my two cents, for what it's worth.

The Book of Mormon has some lovely scriptures which agree with the one above, from Paul. There's plenty of stuff in there about being saved by grace. I've always been confused that born again Christians seem to think that not only can we not think of being saved by works (which we don't, if we really understand our religion), but we cannot even combine works with faith and think that pleases the Lord.

So in short there is nothing we an do to please God. Why worship him then?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Martin Luther handled the Epistle of James with a wave of the hand, terming it "an epistle of straw." Had he been able to do so, he would have removed it from the Canon.

Why I am losing faith...it is all manmade.

[thesometimesaint]

To be accurate there is not one word of canon that isn't man made.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

To be accurate there is not one word of canon that isn't man made.

OK...made-up.

[thesometimesaint]

We are all very imperfect men using imperfect language to describe a perfect being. I don't see that a being made-up. Just a problem with being mortal in an imperfect world. IOW We all see through that glass darkly.

[mfbukowski]

Why I am losing faith...it is all manmade.

True but you forget that God is a Man- The Man of Holiness.

[mfbukowski]

OK...made-up.

You want it to be science? It's revelation- not "made up".

It is as real as your testimony and your personal revelations.

Edited September 8, 2012 by mfbukowski

[KevinG]

Kevin,

You wrote:

Good ol' Kevin, always ready with an ad hominem.

Really? We had that discussion and you assured me it had nothing to do with you making a living off of a counter-cult ministry. I was just repeating your assurance. When repeating your assertions is considered ad hominem you may want to rethink your approach.

Edited September 8, 2012 by KevinG

[Vance]

Regarding the Protestant minister: CFR.

http://www.centerplace.org/library/bofm/baptistversionofbofm.htm

[DBMormon]

To be accurate there is not one word of canon that isn't man made.

The original Ten Commandments - written on stone by the finger of God

[Rob Bowman]

Kevin,

You wrote:

Really? We had that discussion and you assured me it had nothing to do with you making a living off of a counter-cult ministry. I was just repeating your assurance. When repeating your assertions is considered ad hominem you may want to rethink your approach.

It seemed to me that you were "repeating" my "assertions" only in order to prejudice others' minds against me. Notice Pa Pa's comment in post #303. Now, if you would like to state for the record that you consider me a sincere person and that you believe I take the positions I do out of conviction and not for personal gain, I will be happy to retract my complaint.

[KevinG]

Kevin,

You wrote:

It seemed to me that you were "repeating" my "assertions" only in order to prejudice others' minds against me. Notice Pa Pa's comment in post #303. Now, if you would like to state for the record that you consider me a sincere person and that you believe I take the positions I do out of conviction and not for personal gain, I will be happy to retract my complaint.

I believe you are sincere in your belief that Mormons are not Christian. I believe your primary concern is for the ministry and not your paycheck. I do suspect that making a living off of your ministry does include the risk that your investment could limit your objectivity in a way that a believing Mormon does not have to worry about (to what extent I cannot judge).

If you believe full disclosure is prejudice I cannot help you there.

No retraction of your complaint is needed.

[zerinus]

I believe you are sincere in your belief that Mormons are not Christian.

I don't believe he is sincere in his belief that Mormons are not Christians. I don't believe that anyone can be sincere in his belief that Mormons are not Christians. It is inherently and intrinsically a hypocritical stance to adopt. Their sin is similar to the sin of the Pharisees who accused Jesus of casting out devils by Beelzebub, the prince of devils. Jesus' reply to them was revealing, and is applicable here:

Matthew 12:

24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

To say that they are sincere in their belief that Mormons are not Christians is like saying that the Pharisees were sincere in their belief that Jesus cast out devils by the Beelzebub, the prince of devils.

Edited September 8, 2012 by zerinus

[thesometimesaint]

The original Ten Commandments - written on stone by the finger of God

Nope. We don't have the tablets, the originals were destroyed by Moses.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

You want it to be science? It's revelation- not "made up".

It is as real as your testimony and your personal revelations.

I don't have any. Is there room for non-believers who love Mormons here? They are a great people and I love them...especially since my family are believers.

[Garden Girl]

Nope. We don't have the tablets, the originals were destroyed by Moses.

But wasn't he given a second set?

GG

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Kevin,

You wrote:

It seemed to me that you were "repeating" my "assertions" only in order to prejudice others' minds against me. Notice Pa Pa's comment in post #303. Now, if you would like to state for the record that you consider me a sincere person and that you believe I take the positions I do out of conviction and not for personal gain, I will be happy to retract my complaint.

But you do...and we have read you comments elsewhere when you did not need to be polite.

[thesometimesaint]

GG:

The Jews don't believe so, most Christians don't believe so, the LDS do, but I've not seen the actual plates. If they ever existed they were probably destroyed along with the Arc of the Covenant many millenia ago.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

GG:

The Jews don't believe so, most Christians don't believe so, the LDS do, but I've not seen the actual plates. If they ever existed they were probably destroyed along with the Arc of the Covenant many millenia ago.

Does not the OT say this? If so why would they not believe? Edited September 8, 2012 by Bill “Papa” Lee