New Article On Interpreter

[Bill Hamblin]

Mark Wright and Brant Gardner, "The Cultural Context of Nephite Apostasy," Interpreter: A Journal of Mormon Scripture, 1/1 (2012): 25-55

http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/the-cultural-context-of-nephite-apostasy/

[volgadon]

Wonderful. As I said recently, we could use more works on Nephite apostasies.

[Bill Hamblin]

Well, we've got plenty of Nephite apostates!

[volgadon]

Well, we've got plenty of Nephite apostates!

Apologists are closet apostates anyway, right? =)

[Bill Hamblin]

Apologists are closet apostates anyway, right? =)

I believe you are thinking of apostatologists.

[Scott Lloyd]

Great.

But as a subscriber, aren't I supposed to get an email notification? I haven't gotten one yet.

[Bill Hamblin]

Great.

But as a subscriber, aren't I supposed to get an email notification? I haven't gotten one yet.

You should. I haven't received one yet either, so it may take a while to process. Give it an hour or two, and if you still haven't received notice, let me know and we'll check on it.

[David T]

I subscribe by rss. Much quicker Found out by it before I saw this here.

[why me]

Mark Wright and Brant Gardner, "The Cultural Context of Nephite Apostasy," Interpreter: A Journal of Mormon Scripture, 1/1 (2012): 25-55

http://www.mormonint...phite-apostasy/

Good article. Hopefully the good work will continue. I look forward to many more articles. By the way, can we expect some critical reviews of literature written by critics and exmormons?

[Daniel Peterson]

Yes, you can.

[David T]

This paper was good compliment to much of the material in Gardner's Second Witness commentary. I had recently completed his volume on 2 Nephi-Jacob, and found some of the same principles from there expanded upon in this paper. Nice work.

[morgan.deane]

Yes, you can.

I was hoping the journal would be named something like Scriptoral Explorations and Ancient Research. I couldn't work an "M" in there, but if I did this would have been the SMEAR journal. And every article a SMEAR piece. With all of the gnashing of teeth over the Dehlin piece I got a chuckle out of the thought. As it stands I enjoy the first two entries a great deal. Thanks!

[volgadon]

I was hoping the journal would be named something like Scriptoral Explorations and Ancient Research. I couldn't work an "M" in there, but if I did this would have been the SMEAR journal. And every article a SMEAR piece. With all of the gnashing of teeth over the Dehlin piece I got a chuckle out of the thought. As it stands I enjoy the first two entries a great deal. Thanks!

Meandering, or Musings.

[why me]

I was hoping the journal would be named something like Scriptoral Explorations and Ancient Research. I couldn't work an "M" in there, but if I did this would have been the SMEAR journal. And every article a SMEAR piece. With all of the gnashing of teeth over the Dehlin piece I got a chuckle out of the thought. As it stands I enjoy the first two entries a great deal. Thanks!

Your title is too long for an internet journal. Much better to keep it simple and to the point since this is what holds the people's attention.

[why me]

Yes, you can.

Good. By the way I recommended that on the homepage the heading "About" should be changed to Mission Statement. The heading would sound more professional and more exact.

[volgadon]

Good. By the way I recommended that on the homepage the heading "About" should be changed to Mission Statement. The heading would sound more professional and more exact.

Shh, don't tell JSTOR that they sound like a bunch of vague amateurs.

[Brant Gardner]

This paper was good compliment to much of the material in Gardner's Second Witness commentary. I had recently completed his volume on 2 Nephi-Jacob, and found some of the same principles from there expanded upon in this paper. Nice work.

Thank you for the compliment, but I suspect that your comments reflect Mark's contribution. I look forward to many more from him!

[volgadon]

I believe you are thinking of apostatologists.

Nice.

[theplains]

Mark Wright and Brant Gardner, "The Cultural Context of Nephite Apostasy," Interpreter: A Journal of Mormon Scripture, 1/1 (2012): 25-55

http://www.mormonint...phite-apostasy/

I think maybe this part needs clarification.

"Nehor emphasizes a different role for priests. They “ought to be supported by the people” rather than laboring to support

themselves. This is an endorsement of social hierarchies and a blatant rejection of equality".

Here are the actions of Alma (contrary to Nehor):

"And he also commanded them that the priests whom he had ordained should labor with their own hands for their support

... And the priests were not to depend upon the people for their support; but for their labor they were to receive the grace

of God, that they might wax strong in the Spirit, having the knowledge of God, that they might teach with power and authority

from God" (Mosiah 18:24,26).

In the Old Testament, the Aaronic priests received portions of what was given by the people. They did not labor to support

themselves (Deuteronomy 18:1-6; Numbers 18:12-24; Leviticus 7:30-34).

Regards,

Jim

[Brant Gardner]

Jim:

The Nephites did not follow all of the biblical practices. In this case, there were no Aaronic priests, so there was no designated lineage dedicated to temple service. I the new world version of priesthood, it followed a different model. As the verse you cite in Mosiah indicates, the new world priests were not to be dependent upon donated goods, but were to work with their own hands. That is a theme that King Benjamin not only reiterates, but says that he models. The conflict between a social group who desires to be supported and the traditional Nephite desire to have a more egalitarian community are in conflict throughout much of the Book of Mormon.

[cesc101]

thanks Brant, you have touched on something that has for long been bothering me about the BOM: what is the role of the temple for the Nephites (given that i can't find any record of temple ritual ceremony, like in the OT)?

[ sorry if i derailled the thread, just had to ask.]

[ANACO]

Jim:

The Nephites did not follow all of the biblical practices. In this case, there were no Aaronic priests, so there was no designated lineage dedicated to temple service. I the new world version of priesthood, it followed a different model. As the verse you cite in Mosiah indicates, the new world priests were not to be dependent upon donated goods, but were to work with their own hands. That is a theme that King Benjamin not only reiterates, but says that he models. The conflict between a social group who desires to be supported and the traditional Nephite desire to have a more egalitarian community are in conflict throughout much of the Book of Mormon.

So according to the article, King Benjamin learned this of what he spoke:

(I) have not sought gold nor silver nor any manner of riches of you; Neither have I suffered that ye should be confined in dungeons, nor that ye should make slaves one of another, nor that ye should murder, or plunder, or steal, or commit adultery; nor even have I suffered that ye should commit any manner of wickedness

Because, according to the article:

Such descriptions make little sense unless the conditions he described as absent under his reign were actually common elsewhere. Benjamin seems to be contrasting his reign with a well-known set of traits from the surrounding [mesoamerican] cultures.

Interesting. And King Benjamin also learned this alleged "New World version of the Priesthood" from the same Mesoamerican models, because the Mesoamericans were wicked by demonstrating to the Nephites that new world priests were not to be dependent upon donated goods, but were to work with their own hands".

Having it both (contradictory) ways really solidifies the argument for a Mesoamerica location.

Edited August 11, 2012 by ANACO

[ANACO]

This article uses the variation of "syncretist" 39 times, by my count. I believe the new title for apologists for a Mesoamerica location for the Book of Mormon should be -

The Syncretist - Attempts by LDS Scholars to equate the Book of Mormon to a Mesoamerica Location.

This is reflected in the article's opening defining statement:

We propose that apostate Nephite religion resulted from the syncretization of certain beliefs and practices from normative Nephite religion with those attested in ancient Mesoamerica.

What do you think?

[volgadon]

ANACO, if you want to give me your address, I will be happy to send you both a dictionary and a thesaurus, completely free of charge. Just promise to use them before posting, ok?

[Brant Gardner]

This is reflected in the article's opening defining statement:

We propose that apostate Nephite religion resulted from the syncretization of certain beliefs and practices from normative Nephite religion with those attested in ancient Mesoamerica.

What do you think?

I think that synopsis of the article is accurate. The Book of Mormon presents a very important problem for historical understanding. How is it that there is a very similar way of apostasy in different locations and different time periods? This is particularly true when we remember the very close ties between politics, religion, and community in the ancient world. We see a very specific set of actions that probably shouldn't happen. Yet they did. The paper shows how a Mesomaerican setting provides the cultural context that explains the specifics of apostasy from the Nephite religion.

Of course, someone proposing a different geography wouldn't agree with those contexts and the way the syncretism occurred. However, the issue remains. I would enjoy seeing another solution to the problem using any other area of the world. What determined the course of apostasy? Why those particular features? Why during those times?