Mormons And Muslims (And Romney And Me)

[Daniel Peterson]

I"m evidently being criticized, on (at least) one predominantly apostate message board where I don't post, for not having commented on Governor Romney's remarks about the Palestinians while he was in Israel.

But, as a matter of fact, I have:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterson/2012/07/mormons-and-muslims-an-interview.html

I want to make that plain, since, apparently, I'm being faulted for never publicly criticizing people on "my team" (e.g., Mormons, conservatives, and/or Republicans). This is, roughly, Flaw #26,539 in my character -- as it's viewed by such folks.

And, yes, I'm still on Governor Romney's side. Rather vocally and publicly, as a matter of fact.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I"m evidently being criticized, on (at least) one predominantly apostate message board where I don't post, for not having commented on Governor Romney's remarks about the Palestinians while he was in Israel.

But, as a matter of fact, I have:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterson/2012/07/mormons-and-muslims-an-interview.html

I want to make that plain, since, apparently, I'm being faulted for never publicly criticizing people on "my team" (e.g., Mormons, conservatives, and/or Republicans). This is, roughly, Flaw #26,539 in my character -- as it's viewed by such folks.

And, yes, I'm still on Governor Romney's side. Rather vocally and publicly, as a matter of fact.

As am I. I once was one who built a business on my own.

[phaedrus ut]

I read on the internets today that a certain not to be named Pulitzer Price winning exmormon is claiming that a source inside the Maxwell Institute said your dismissal was due to complaints from the Romney campaign.

Then, according to my source (who said the following had been relayed to the source by a staff employee at the Maxwell Institute), the Mitt Romney campaign had contacted the Maxwell Institute to complain that the extreme Mormon apologetics of Peterson were hurting the Romney presidential campaign.

Subsequently, the source said, Peterson was fired from his editor position at the Maxwell Institute.

I personally blame the Danites, the Templars, and the anti-knee high levis.

Phaedrus

[Garden Girl]

Sorry Dr. Peterson, but I see nothing wrong with the context Romney used in regard to Israli vs Muslim-Islamic culture and which would/could lead to a more successful political climate and progress for their people in general... I can agree that it might have been more prudent not to make that particular comparison during his visit, but I agree "culture" indeed has everything to do with a society's progress.

The problem I see is the radical Muslim faction not the many good and reasonable Muslims that you mentioned, and that we are more familiar with here in the U.S. and other more open societies. I always look at the Muslim women in that particular area, and other areas where they follow the same custom or "culture"...

And unless there have been recent changes...

The women cannot go to school past a certain age...

They are prohibited from driving...

They cannot go downtown without being accompanied by a male relative...

Most must be covered from head to toe with just an opening for their eyes (I remember seeing a group of women in Heathrow Airport all in black with just their eyes showing, following along behind several men).

"Life" is not viewed with the same reverence and respect as in other societies... and

many raise their sons to be suicide bombers... to kill Jews... it is pounded into the children from the time they are little in the classroom and in the songs they are taught as if it is something to strive for and be proud of... what kind of mother sends her child to randomly kill innocent people in a marketplace or other public area and feels it is an honor to give one's child.

So when you have two very different cultures so close, it is not hard to see which would be more successful for their people... the one that is free and open... or the one that is controlled by the Ayotollas and a set of laws that do not foster progress.

Just my opinion... and I'm entitled to it, and I can express it openly and without fear...

GG

[Tacenda]

Sorry Dr. Peterson, but I see nothing wrong with the context Romney used in regard to Israli vs Muslim-Islamic culture and which would/could lead to a more successful political climate and progress for their people in general... I can agree that it might have been more prudent not to make that particular comparison during his visit, but I agree "culture" indeed has everything to do with a society's progress.

The problem I see is the radical Muslim faction not the many good and reasonable Muslims that you mentioned, and that we are more familiar with here in the U.S. and other more open societies. I always look at the Muslim women in that particular area, and other areas where they follow the same custom or "culture"...

And unless there have been recent changes...

The women cannot go to school past a certain age...

They are prohibited from driving...

They cannot go downtown without being accompanied by a male relative...

Most must be covered from head to toe with just an opening for their eyes (I remember seeing a group of women in Heathrow Airport all in black with just their eyes showing, following along behind several men).

"Life" is not viewed with the same reverence and respect as in other societies... and

many raise their sons to be suicide bombers... to kill Jews... it is pounded into the children from the time they are little in the classroom and in the songs they are taught as if it is something to strive for and be proud of... what kind of mother sends her child to randomly kill innocent people in a marketplace or other public area and feels it is an honor to give one's child.

So when you have two very different cultures so close, it is not hard to see which would be more successful for their people... the one that is free and open... or the one that is controlled by the Ayotollas and a set of laws that do not foster progress.

Just my opinion... and I'm entitled to it, and I can express it openly and without fear...

GG

What you described about the Muslim women in your quote made me think of the movie "Not Without My Daughter". True story, excellent for those that can find it. Maybe Netflix? It really put the fear in me if I were ever to visit a country with those stringent rules. Imagine if you're gay, or if you had an affair etc. You would be put to death. Or if you want to believe another religion such as Christianity. Death for that! I can't imagine living under that kind of regime. I'm so thankful for my country or all countries that are free.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

What you described about the Muslim women in your quote made me think of the movie "Not Without My Daughter". True story, excellent for those that can find it. Maybe Netflix? It really put the fear in me if I were ever to visit a country with those stringent rules. Imagine if you're gay, or if you had an affair etc. You would be put to death. Or if you want to believe another religion such as Christianity. Death for that! I can't imagine living under that kind of regime. I'm so thankful for my country or all countries that are free.

Indeed...Although not PC to point out. For instance the most progressive country allows women do be doctors for others women, but not allowed to drive cars.

[Garden Girl]

What you described about the Muslim women in your quote made me think of the movie "Not Without My Daughter". True story, excellent for those that can find it. Maybe Netflix? It really put the fear in me if I were ever to visit a country with those stringent rules. Imagine if you're gay, or if you had an affair etc. You would be put to death. Or if you want to believe another religion such as Christianity. Death for that! I can't imagine living under that kind of regime. I'm so thankful for my country or all countries that are free.

I saw that movie also... it's on every now and then. What an incredible journey, and when she finally escaped the mother just had to put her trust in these strange men to do right. They could have killed her and her daughter.

Imagine how she felt when she was finally standing on the street of that town and she saw the American flag outside of the Embassey... At last they would make it back to the U.S.

GG

[thesometimesaint]

The Muslim world gave us universities when at the time the Christian world gave us the Crusades.

The Muslim world gave us mathematics when at the time the Christian world gave us witches riding on broomsticks.

The Muslim world gave us medicine when at the time the Christian world gave killing cats that ate the rats that brought us the Black Plague.

BTW Qatar has the same culture as the Palestinian Authority. Qatar has the 2nd highest GDP in the world while the US is 14th and Israel is 27th.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita

[Garden Girl]

The Muslim world gave us universities when at the time the Christian world gave us the Crusades.

The Muslim world gave us mathematics when at the time the Christian world gave us witches riding on broomsticks.

The Muslim world gave us medicine when at the time the Christian world gave killing cats that ate the rats that brought us the Black Plague.

BTW Qatar has the same culture as the Palestinian Authority. Qatar has the 2nd highest GDP in the world while the US is 14th and Israel is 27th.

http://en.wikipedia....nal)_per_capita

You are absolutely right TSS... and I think they even developed a form of paper, and they gave us other wonderful gifts in art also... but that was centuries ago for the most part (yes, I saw the History Channel special on their contributions and they were laudable)... but I don't see many of these wonderful advancements coming from the fanatical muslims bent on wiping Israel off the face of the map... did you ever notice how the men seem to be able to take to the streets in droves at any given time to chant their slogans against Israel and the USA... don't they have jobs? I'm well aware of their contributions, but these are from the faction that is more educated (many here in the US).

I do not believe you can oppress your citizenry, particularly women, or kill indiscriminantly, and be considered to be among the more reasoned for the betterment of your culture and/or advancement of society.

GG

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

The Muslim world gave us universities when at the time the Christian world gave us the Crusades.

The Muslim world gave us mathematics when at the time the Christian world gave us witches riding on broomsticks.

The Muslim world gave us medicine when at the time the Christian world gave killing cats that ate the rats that brought us the Black Plague.

BTW Qatar has the same culture as the Palestinian Authority. Qatar has the 2nd highest GDP in the world while the US is 14th and Israel is 27th.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita

The Muslim world you describe that no longer exist. TSS I don't know why you sing the praises of everyone over your own faith and Nation...what has gone wrong?

[Darren10]

Sometimessaint;

What contributions have the Muslims given in the last 500 years?

[bluebell]

The Muslim world you describe that no longer exist. TSS I don't know why you sing the praises of everyone over your own faith and Nation...what has gone wrong?

He's just giving credit where credit is due.

Christianity, in general, has a history (and a tendency still today) to be prideful and self-righteous in their views of Islam. You get a lof of 'us' and 'them' in such discussions, and also a lot of disdain. Instead of the Israelites turning their noses up at the Samaritans it's the Christians doing it to the Muslims (again, in general).

It's good for us to remember the shoulders the world has stood on over the years to reach the heights it has. One of the most Christ-like men i have EVER met (including the time I've spent in the church) was a Muslim.

You (general 'you', not you personally Pa Pa) can't disparage Islam without disparaging people like him, and that would be so wrong.

[ERayR]

The Muslim world gave us universities when at the time the Christian world gave us the Crusades.

The Muslim world gave us mathematics when at the time the Christian world gave us witches riding on broomsticks.

The Muslim world gave us medicine when at the time the Christian world gave killing cats that ate the rats that brought us the Black Plague.

BTW Qatar has the same culture as the Palestinian Authority. Qatar has the 2nd highest GDP in the world while the US is 14th and Israel is 27th.

http://en.wikipedia....nal)_per_capita

And the Muslim world brought Islam by the sword and got as far as Spain before being stopped. All at great cost in blood.

[Darren10]

You (general 'you', not you personally Pa Pa) can't disparage Islam without disparaging people like him, and that would be so wrong.

Islam should absolutetely be left alone in debate and argument. Jihadists, however, are a far different story.

[thesometimesaint]

Would it be fair to claim that the Oklahoma City bombing represented all of Christianity?

It is rather unfair to compare one groups best with another groups worst.

[bluebell]

And the Muslim world brought Islam by the sword and got as far as Spain before being stopped. All at great cost in blood.

The Muslim world treated Christians with a large measure of respect-calling them 'the people of the book' in reference to their shared theological history.

It wasn't until after the horrors of the crusades where Christians acted like true barbarians that Islam turned on us.

[bluebell]

Islam should absolutetely be left alone in debate and argument. Jihadists, however, are a far different story.

I don't think anyone disagrees with you on that.