Mormon Vs Islamic Polygamy

[bu11fr0g]

I ran into an islaamic polygamist which was one of the most demeaning relationship i have ever seen with women. His wives cannot talk to a man directly, are veiled, are kept isolated and are completely submissive.

I had always thought of mormon polygamist womwn as extra liberated: first women to vote, some of the first to go to medical school because other women could watch their children, etc.

Is my perception correct or incorrect? Were mormon polygamist women subservient or independent relatively?

[volgadon]

Were mormon polygamist women subservient or independent relatively?

A bit of both.

[CASteinman]

In Saudi Arabia the women are veiled but only in public. Under the Abeya they are usually very flashy and well made up.

I never witnessed any abuse per se. But once I saw a Saudi man in a grocery store. The 4 wives were behind him the required steps and there he plodded, ahead of them, head down and looking weary. The 4 wives walked all abreast and were chatting and twittering away and laughing constantly.

The contrast was enormous. I would say that polygamy was not exactly the freedom for him we might imagine.

Edited July 27, 2012 by CASteinman

[volgadon]

In Saudi Arabia the women are veiled but only in public. Under the Abeya they are usually very flashy and well made up.

I never witnessed any abuse per se. But once I saw a Saudi man in a grocery store. The 4 wives were behind him the required steps and there he plodded, ahead of them, head down and looking weary. The 4 wives walked all abreast and were chatting and twittering away and laughing constantly.

The contrast was enormous. I would say that polygamy was not exactly the freedom for him we might imagine.

I'm reminded of a comic song in one of my favourite Russian movies. The guy is singing about how, were he a sultan, he'd have wives, three. With a look of horror he realises, mothers-in-law, also three!

[CASteinman]

I'm reminded of a comic song in one of my favourite Russian movies. The guy is singing about how, were he a sultan, he'd have wives, three. With a look of horror he realises, mothers-in-law, also three!

I remember thinking very distinctly at the time (and how precocious too, as I was not yet married with children) that this fellow was always going to be in the minority in his home.

[Buzzard]

I knew the son of a dad and two moms in southern Utah back in the day. He said his moms never fought, but they ganged up on his dad every single day. Be careful what you wish for....

[blooit]

So I was sitting near my apartment at BYU. My upstairs neighbors were palestinians. She had born 4 children in 4 years and was having medical difficulties. She said to me and a group of LDS women, "I told my husband if he wanted another child he can get another wife." We, of course, gave the customary mormon laugh assuming she was kidding.

She wasn't.

[cesc101]

In my typical African traditional setting, the men take pride in having many wives - I guess that's why Islamic religion really flourished in Nigeria. But, here's the thing, majority of then (usually) end up living their wives behind (death)

[The Nehor]

I'm reminded of a comic song in one of my favourite Russian movies. The guy is singing about how, were he a sultan, he'd have wives, three. With a look of horror he realises, mothers-in-law, also three!

Do what my great-great-grandfather did. Marry sisters. Then you are back down to one.

[Darren10]

In Saudi Arabia the women are veiled but only in public. Under the Abeya they are usually very flashy and well made up.

I never witnessed any abuse per se. But once I saw a Saudi man in a grocery store. The 4 wives were behind him the required steps and there he plodded, ahead of them, head down and looking weary. The 4 wives walked all abreast and were chatting and twittering away and laughing constantly.

The contrast was enormous. I would say that polygamy was not exactly the freedom for him we might imagine.

Heh!!!

[swfarnsworth]

An important difference between the two is that Mormon polygamy was by assignment—You couldn't convert to Mormonism because you wanted to have more than one wife. Nevertheless, I once made a self-deprecating joke about polygamy (I am a direct descendant of a polygamist on my male-only line) to my uncle, who is a Protestant Christian. He, however, defended polygamy, as he has a Muslim coworker who is a polygamist. As a polygamist, he was required (presumably under Shari'a) to show no favoratism to any wife in particular. If he buys flowers for one wife, for example, he must do the same for the rest.

[mbh26]

The only difference I see is that the left loves and supports Islamic polygamy but uses Mormon polygamy that was long since been discontinued as the current definining characteristic of Mormonism.

[Tacenda]

When I watch the show "Sister Wives" with Kody Brown and his 4 wives, I see that he does not have the better deal! Man that guy needs a life. He runs around like a chicken with his head cut off, taking care of each wife and their feelings, each having difficulty with one thing or another. On top of that he has his children to worry about, and sometimes doesn't get to see them very much. But if polygamy ever became legal, and the Brown's are attempting to make it so, this in my estimation is quite the sacrifice on both the men & women and they are trying to live it according to how they think God would want them to. They appear to be a very loving and decent people. And it doesn't appear evil at all.

But OTH the poor people that live under the regime of Warren Jeffs, now that is E.V.I.L. The people are lost souls, brainwashed from birth, if you ever read much up on how he would teach them each day in a school he ran, that the government was evil, the people outside of their community are evil, blacks are the devil, the woman must try to get prego atleast once a year (he didn't teach that one in school).

Now the children are homeschooled if that, and usually they're farmed out to go to work around 7 or 8, atleast the boys are. And it's usually construction sites. Their toys have been destroyed now, along with a few years ago, their dogs and pets were destroyed. And just recently they burned a bunch of books in their library, which wasn't much, since they don't teach alot about history, science, geography just alot the basics, like math or skills that help them in the work force.

Warren now has told them that no one has sex but a select few, and these select few men I think about 15, are to father the chosen women's children. So let their husbands stand by and have to take this. This is probably the most abusive thing going on in this country. But our country doesn't do anything. I guess there are laws, and the women actually have to come forth and tell their stories.

Hopefully this will bust wide open like it did the with the Texas fiasco, but hopefully men and women and children will leave this horrendous cult if it does.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Tacenda

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

A bit of both.

Depended on if the man was righteous. Unrighteous men still seek to rob women of their independence. Something clearly condemned in D&C 121...and if you try it with a Southern woman...could get you a black eye.

[KevinG]

Depended on if the man was righteous. Unrighteous men still seek to rob women of their independence. Something clearly condemned in D&C 121...and if you try it with a Southern woman...could get you a black eye.

Even with the transplants. Funny how my very independent wife is the one who seems to understand the need for polygamy the most. She said she wouldn't like to share but she sees too many women who do not have husbands who honor them. Perhaps I should take up golf or watch more sports on TV to convince her I can't handle the responsibility in the next life?

[USU78]

Is my perception correct or incorrect? Were mormon polygamist women subservient or independent relatively?

t

To prevent committing the presentist fallacy, it's important to ask such questions in historical context, and review the answers received in the same way:

Compare the life of a Mormon woman in 1860 living in polygyny with a non-Mormon monogamous woman in 1860 . . . both living in similar socio-economic conditions. See if the Mormon woman's life was more or less independent economically, spiritually, intellectually and socially.

That would be a better way to go about answering your question.

[Maidservant]

Please learn a lot more about polgyamy and Islam; as well as gender and marital relations in Islam; than from that one example before being prepared for comparison. There are many Muslim people who would never think to take more than one wife. There are some verses in the Quran that speak to polygamy but like the Bible, it helps to understand the Quran with historical, cultural and theological context. Polygamy is more cultural WITHIN [parts of!] the Islamic world than it is a spiritual and theological tenet. As I have come to understand, the Quran (thus Islam) does NOT support polygamy, but rather instructs how to justly conduct it if such a thing is already practiced in the culture (we no longer take women as spoils from war . . . I think) and the Quran says, don't abuse these women, MARRY them (up to 4). Give them their honor. (However, admittedly, there are many Muslims who don't understand the Quran that way, but again, there is a variety of understanding on the Bible as well.) But the favor and righteousness in Islam is one husband, one wife similar as we can hear the admonitions in the Book of Mormon in Jacob and the text in D&C 132 and still manage to do what is right and be Mormon and wish that 'outside' people could understand.

If you saw a man treating his wives disrespectfully, I'm pretty sure he'd still be disrespectful if he just had one.

[Daniel Peterson]

Here's my brief take on a recent attempt to argue that Mormonism is more like Islam than like Christianity:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterson/2012/07/are-mormons-closer-to-muslims-or-christians-by-ms-eliza-wood.html

[volgadon]

Here's my brief take on a recent attempt to argue that Mormonism is more like Islam than like Christianity:

http://www.patheos.c...eliza-wood.html

I absolutely agree with your take on the clumsy hit piece. However, for the sake of argument, which movement (or period) in Islam do you think we most resemble? If, indeed, we resemble any. To put it in other words, were we Muslims, say, in 9th-10th century Iraq, would we be Ghulat or more mainstream Ismaili, that sort of thing.