Creator or Creators

[johnny]

LDS4EVER writes

Clearly, John 1:1 says that Jesus is God.

Clearly the Bible reveals one God.

[Fiat Lux]

Paul, LDS, et al,

For the record, I am not at all confused by the trinity. Mystery does not equal confusion. It's disingenuous of you to label the general group you call trinitarians as "confused", just because you are having difficulty with the concept.

What I do find confusing is trying to figure out what you mean when you use the word, "God". I do not know, when you use the word "God", to which God you are referring. It makes understanding your points of discussion very difficult.

LDS are baptized in the name of the father, Son, and Holy Ghost.(Matthew 28:19)

LDS believe there is "One Lord", "One Shepherd", and One God over all the earth which consist of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. This means that there is no other God in existence that can save us except for the One God which consist of three divine Persons. (Mark 12:29; Compare: 1 Nephi 13:41; 2 Ne 31:21; Mosiah 15:4)

God = Father + Son + Holy Ghost?

LDS believe that it is life eternal to know the only true God by the power of the Spirit in the Celestial Kingdom which is Jesus Christ AND God the Father. We must know both Persons. Both means TWO and they are agreed together in all things. (John 17:3)

LDS believe that the true God is the Father & Son. (1 John 5:20)

God = Father + Son?

LDS believe that Jesus is the blessed God. (Romans 9:5)

God = Son?

LDS believe that we are saved by calling upon the name of the Personage known as Jesus Christ. Only through the name of the Son of God can we gain salvation. (10:9-13)

God = Father?

LDS believe that by the power of the Spirit, hereafter, man may be changed into the exact same glory and image as God himself and become Gods too, from everlasting to everlasting. (2 Cor. 3:16-18)

Which God will you become like?

A question: If I were to attempt to read the bible from an LDS perspective, how would I know which God was acting or being described? Is there a rational basis for defining God in a particular way in a particular instance (based on the ancient languages perhaps), or are definitions imposed upon the word in whatever way necessary to suit LDS theology?

[Big Dogger]

I have a question for you Big Dogger. If the Trinity is really such a mystery (A religious truth that is incomprehensible to reason and knowable only through divine revelation) than why do evangelicals, when presented with an alternative such as the Latter-day Saint viewpoint, smack their heads in disbelief and express awe in how anyone could come to an absurd conclusion. I don

[Big Dogger]

the Son was created by his Father

Paul O

In many places Jesus says that he is "in" the Father and the Father is "in" him. He and the Father are one (in being and in love). The Father loves him and works in him. The Father is with him. Jesus says he "comes forth" from the Father, and that he is "sent" by the Father. The Church simply professes its faith in "Jesus Christ, the only Son of God eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father."

Peace be with you.

[Tanyan]

They Spirtualy Indwell one another in Grace, Mind, Love, Power, Attributes ect... .

[Alexander]

Big Dogger wrote:

God created those things

[Alexander]

Fiat Lux wrote:

For the record, I am not at all confused by the trinity. Mystery does not equal confusion. It's disingenuous of you to label the general group you call trinitarians as "confused", just because you are having difficulty with the concept.

**

I am sorry I label Trinitarians as unsure of what the Trinity is but you must understand that I have yet to meet one that can help me understand it or describe it in clear terms so the label is, unfortunately, not entirely unjustified. Perhaps you could help us understand it. I have been looking for an explanation for it for a while. Perhaps you can help me with what I

[Fiat Lux]

I am sorry I label Trinitarians as unsure of what the Trinity is but you must understand that I have yet to meet one that can help me understand it or describe it in clear terms so the label is, unfortunately, not entirely unjustified.  Perhaps you could help us understand it.  I have been looking for an explanation for it for a while.  Perhaps you can help me with what I

[Big Dogger]

Just because any one trait or idea involves God does not mean it is incomprehensible.

You are correct. One trait or idea involving God is not incomprehensible. God is incomprehensible!

what motivation do I have to try and wrap my mind around the something that takes much more mental gymnastics?

Alexander, if you don't want to exercise the brain that God gave you by contemplating His mysteries and glory...then don't. I happen to believe that there is much more to God than Him being a common sinner that rose in ranks to attain God status. We will have to agree to disagree.

To me the Bible simply does not teach the Trinity.

Well, to me it does teach the Trinity. Does not. Does to. Does not. Does to.

I cannot fully comprehend God

[Alexander]

I am sorry I label Trinitarians as unsure of what the Trinity is but you must understand that I have yet to meet one that can help me understand it or describe it in clear terms so the label is, unfortunately, not entirely unjustified.

[Alexander]

Big Dogger wrote:

You are correct. One trait or idea involving God is not incomprehensible. God is incomprehensible!

**

Than by that logic it is reasonable to conclude that nobody can know anything about God other than his incomprehensibility. We cannot always understand everything, but we can understand something.

Big Dogger wrote:

Alexander, if you don't want to exercise the brain that God gave you by contemplating His mysteries and glory...then don't.

**

I am more than willing to explore the logic and reasoning behind issues involving God, my very presence here is testament to that. What I don

[Big Dogger]

Big Dogger wrote:

You are correct. One trait or idea involving God is not incomprehensible. God is incomprehensible!

**

Than by that logic it is reasonable to conclude that nobody can know anything about God other than his incomprehensibility. We cannot always understand everything, but we can understand something.

Let me clarify...the nature of God is incomprehensible.

We do know that God is eternal blessedness, undying life, unfading light. God is love: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Peace be with you.

[Big Dogger]

can you explain what this difference means to you?

Perhaps not confused but rather unable to describe it.

There is one God, one "substance," one consciousness, one will, one mind, etc. But there are three "persons" who share this one godness. We use the word "person" in a philosophical sense. Our trouble today is that we are apt to understand it in a psychological sense -- as if there were three personalities or three consciousnesses in the modern psychological sense of "person."

Peace be with you.

[Paul Osborne]

Men are made in the image of the Son of God. 

The God who alone spread out the heavens "is not a man, as I am" (Job 9:32)

I put more stock into the Lord's utterance in Isaiaih than that of Job's ramblings.

More importantly we have the New Testament that demonstrate Christ is a Man and so also is is his Father.

Job knew that in his flesh he would see God in the resurrection and he rejoiced in knowing that God is a glorified Being - a Man of war, immortal, perfected, and without sin.

Paul O

[Paul Osborne]

LDS4EVER

[Big Dogger]

However Trinitarism cannot be defined solely by the words

[Tanyan]

For some reason I don't believe the 3 witnesses had the Western Psychological Greek Neo-Platonic Gnostic Hellelistic version of God in mind when they made that statement. Perhaps a Monarch/Economic/Social Model [ Tho they would not have called it like I just Have]. Grace.

[Big Dogger]

For some reason I don't believe the 3 witnesses had the Western Psychological Greek Neo-Platonic Gnostic Hellelistic version of God in mind when they made that statement. Perhaps a Monarch/Economic/Social Model [ Tho they would not have called it like I just Have]. Grace.

Tanyan,

I always enjoy your posts, however I will have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. We can not go by what we believe they meant to say. We have to go by the meaning of what they said. They made the claim, "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, which is One God." If they had been witness to Joseph Smith's personal testimony, the Golden Plates, etc...shouldn't they have known and stated that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, which is three Gods ruling this world together?

I think this is a valid question.

Peace be with you.

[Paul Osborne]

I want the last word!

God is a Man.

Now you Trinitarians hush up and last me have the last word.

Paul O

[Big Dogger]

I want the last word!

God is a Man.

Now you Trinitarians hush up and last me have the last word.

Paul O

LOL

Who can argue with that!

Peace to you Paul!!

[Paul Osborne]

Paul O

[Tanyan]

And of coarse I would disagree with you also BD, They had read the anchient records as contained in the BoM and concluded a "ONE GOD " statement in a different sense, but we are going to disagree on this one, okay !. Peace and Grace to you.

[Alexander]

Big Dogger wrote:

Let me clarify...the nature of God is incomprehensible.

**

And by

[hooberus]

Oh, pardon me. Allow me to rephrase: However Trinitarism cannot be defined solely by the words

[Cherub]

Trinity is the word to describe the God whom I've come to know. This nature of God cannot be comprehended on earth; but once we are with Him, we will fully understand.