Paul Osborne Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 God is spirit. 1. The Holy Ghost is a Spirit. We need Him in us as we worship God. 2. God is eternal, immortal, and invisible; we walk by faith, not by sight. 3. Where else can we turn but to the Spirit of the living God? 4. The Holy Ghost is NOT the Father or Son but is a separate Personage.Paul O
johnny Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Paul Osborne writes,It's not too hard to interpret the scriptures in the manner they were meant to be read. What a strange way to interpret scripture ...
johnny Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Paul Osborne writes,4. The Holy Ghost is NOT the Father or Son but is a separate Personage. I would agree ...
Big Dogger Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 2. God is eternal, immortal, and invisible; we walk by faith, not by sight. Paul,How can you justify saying that God is eternal? You have said over and over that the God of Mormon belief has a beginning. Eternal is defined as:1. Exsisting through all time -- lasting for all time without beginning or end2. Unchanging -- unaffected by the passage of timeThe definition of eternal does not fit your "definition" of God.Peace be with you.
Paul Osborne Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 - made after the similitude of God ... after the invisible God- the image of the invisible God ... invisible does not have form"invisible"1. Not visible; that cannot be seen 2. Out of sight; not apparentThe word "invisible" does not necessarily indicate a permanent condition but as the dictionary says, "out of sight or not apparent". To be invisible can be a temporary condition when something cannot be seen. The apostle Paul gave a very nice example of this concept, which shows the difference between invisible and visible in as much as the invisible can become visible. "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen" The apostle Paul taught that the image of the invisible God could be manifested visibly in Christ Jesus:"Who is the image of the invisible God, the Firstborn of all creation" (Greek)God is not ALWAYS invisible to man. Joseph Smith saw him. The angels see him.Paul O
Paul Osborne Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 - the image of the invisible God ... invisible does not have form Do you see Christ? Don't you walk by faith and not sight? Christ is invisible to your eyes. Does he have form, a body perhaps?Paul O
johnny Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Paul Osborne writes,The word "invisible" does not necessarily indicate a permanent condition but as the dictionary says, "out of sight or not apparent". I would agreeGod is not ALWAYS invisible to man. Joseph Smith saw him. The angels see him.Joseph Smith had a vision.Did Joseph Smith see with his spiritual eyes or his natural eyes?
Paul Osborne Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 - the image of his Son ... the image of the son is the image of man True. And:"Christ, who is the image of God" 2Cr 4:4But right now you see neither one because they are invisible to you, Johnny. The apostles got to see Jesus but the Father was invisible and so they didn't get to see the Father.Paul O
johnny Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Paul Osborne writes,Do you see Christ? Don't you walk by faith and not sight? Christ is invisible to your eyes. Does he have form, a body perhaps?Today the Son is invisible and has a glorified body. The Father is invisible and transcends.
Paul Osborne Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 2. God is eternal, immortal, and invisible; we walk by faith, not by sight. Paul,How can you justify saying that God is eternal? You have said over and over that the God of Mormon belief has a beginning. Eternal is defined as:1. Exsisting through all time -- lasting for all time without beginning or end2. Unchanging -- unaffected by the passage of timeThe definition of eternal does not fit your "definition" of God.Peace be with you. Read my posts. I don't like to repeat my self too many times.Paul O
johnny Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Paul Osborne writes,"Christ, who is the image of God" he that hath seen me hath seen the Father ... I am in the Father, and the Father in me ... the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works
Paul Osborne Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 God is not ALWAYS invisible to man. Joseph Smith saw him. The angels see him.Joseph Smith had a vision.Did Joseph Smith see with his spiritual eyes or his natural eyes?It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other
johnny Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Paul Osborne writes,Whether in the body or out, physical eyes or spiritual eyes, I don't know for sure. Paul tells us that he was the last one to see the risen Christ.1 Corinthians 157 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. Yes, the Father is invisible for right now. But when you see him you will see him as he really is - a Man. That will take your breath away, Johnny. I will see him as he really is ...
johnny Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Paul Osborne writes,So! Are you trying to say that St. Paul made a divine mandate that no one would ever see him again? The Final Judgment is called the second coming ... do you know of any other comings?
Paul Osborne Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Yes, the Father is invisible for right now. But when you see him you will see him as he really is - a Man. That will take your breath away, Johnny.I will see him as he really is ... Just like Stephen did when he saw him standing at the side of resurrected Jesus. Or perhaps St John who saw him on a throne with Jesus taking the book out of his hands. Oh I know, you don't believe such silly notions to be real. They are merely expressions of art.I can assure you that we must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. The Father will be there too. You'll see him. He doesn't look like an animal, a bolt of electricity, or a cloud of yellow gas, or something strange like that. He is a Divine Man who is the Father of all. It will shock you if you don't prepare yourself.Paul O
johnny Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Paul Osborne writes,Just like Stephen and John had the heavens opened ... they had a vision.
johnny Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Paul Osborne writes,I Paul O and my Father are one just as much as Jesus is one with his Father. I would agree that is what being annointed is all about ...
Jon Haugo Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Hi Tanyan, Paul, and Johnny,The reason why we (Evangelicals and Catholics) believe in the Trinity is because we believe it is a harmony of all Scripture and with what was taught in the early church.We believe that Scripture is the spoken word of God to us and therefore we base all our teachings on it. We consider ourselves monotheists because that is what Scripture teaches:Isaiah 43:10"You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. 11 I, even I, am the LORD; and apart from me there is no savior.44:6 "This is what the LORD says- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.Verse 8
johnny Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Paul Osborne writes,How about Isaiah? Did he have a vision of the baby Jesus? Are you saying that a real baby was in front of Isiah and that Isaiah saw the baby Jesus with his natural eyes?
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