johnny Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 stick of Joseph writes, The reason why we (Evangelicals and Catholics) believe in the Trinity is because we believe it is a harmony of all Scripture and with what was taught in the early church.Hi stick,Great post ... fell free to jump in at anything.I would agree with the Trinity is in harmony with the scriptures and it is what was taught in the early church.johnny
johnny Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Paul Osborne writes,The final judgment is after the 1000 years of peace. The "thousand years" preceds the final judgment ... but this is for another thread.
johnny Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Paul Osborne writes,A vision doesn't take away Did Daniel see with his natural eyes? John the Revelator also saw the Lord right in front of him. Which passage are you referring to?For some passages John had the heavens opened ...For some passages John saw an Angel ...
Paul Osborne Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Isaiah 43:10"You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. 11 I, even I, am the LORD; and apart from me there is no savior.44:6 "This is what the LORD says- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.Verse 8
johnny Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Paul Osborne writes,And that makes four persons but we are one God. The doctrine Trinity teaches "one God in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity" ... what you are referring to is the "unity" ... this is different than the Trinity concept of consubstantial.
Paul Osborne Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 We believe that Scripture is the spoken word of God to us and therefore we base all our teachings on it. We consider ourselves monotheists because that is what Scripture teaches:If you want monotheism you need to become a Muslim! Christians are not monotheists. The Trinity is a belief in three Gods. It is similar to the Egyptian gods in the way they viewed their Deity. "Ultimately, the notion that every god could be seen as an aspect of Amun led to a kind of Egyptian monotheism: that is, the idea that all the gods are really one. This is different from the monotheism of Judaism and Islam, which accepts only one God, but is similar to the notion of Christian Trinity, which recognizes the existence of three different 'persons' (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) in a single God. The Leiden hymn to Amun, in fact, anticipated the Christian idea of a triune god." World famous Egyptologist James P. Allen (author of "Middle Egyptian" and Curator of the Metropolitan Museum of New York City) Paul O
Paul Osborne Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Did Daniel see with his natural eyes?What difference does it make? He saw the Lord and the Lord has eyeballs. Do you deny that the Lord has eyeballs? You might as well deny he has a voicebox too.Which passage are you referring to?Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:That's pretty close up. The Lord was right their in front of him and later went and took the book out of his Father's hand:Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.Do you deny the Father has a hand? Paul O
Paul Osborne Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 The Bible says that Jesus has a right hand.The Bible says that the Father has a right hand.Paul O
johnny Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Paul Osborne writes,What difference does it make? He saw the Lord and the Lord has eyeballs.It makes a difference ... John say a lamb and mostly like the lamb had a tail and eyeballs.That's pretty close up. Close enough to see that he had feet like brass and a sword coming out of his mouth.Do you deny the Father has a hand? Do you deny he saw a Lamb and four beasts?
Jon Haugo Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Hi Paul,Here are a couple of other Scriptures that prove monotheism:Deut 4:35 You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD is God; besides him there is no other.
johnny Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Paul Osborne writes,"Consubstantial"? "Consubstantial" simply describes passages like John 1:1 which reveal that "the Word was with God, and the Word was God"God will open the mouth of that child and it will be a sign to you.And that child will say their is one God.
Jon Haugo Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Hello,God will open the mouth of that child and it will be a sign to you.I once was trying to skate a few years ago but I wasn't doing very well. A child skated by me and said "Learn how to skate!!" I didn't.I thought we all could use a little humor right now.SincerelyStick
Paul Osborne Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Animal representation and other things are a common way in which the Lord describes people, including himself. The Bible is full of imagery and symbolism.But, when you take the humanity out of God and Christ it degrades the message that God is our Father and we are made in his very image. John saw Christ next to the throne. He used the common imagery of the Lamb to represent certain characteristics of Christ
johnny Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Paul Osborne writes,Do you deny God has eyeballs? Answer the question, Johnny. I don't know of any scriptures that would reveal that God has eyeballs?Do you know what color they are?It has been fun but I got to run ...
Paul Osborne Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Stick,Monothiesm is generally expressed in the O.T. The Muslims would agree with that. The N.T. introduces more Gods in the same package. How about you ask the Muslims what they think of the Trinity? Muslims believe there is only one person which is one God. That is 2/3 less Gods than the Trinity.Trinitarianism is pretty much the belief of multiple Gods but neatly packaged into one box. Islam is the perfect example of true Monothiesm. You guys are not monothist! You have your three persons as one God. Muslims point the finger at you and say, "shame shame", there is only one God who is one person.Trinitarinism is after the manner of the Egyptians, or perhaps the Greeks. You have more than one person running the show. Face it, you worship multiple gods.Paul O
Paul Osborne Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 And that child will say their is one God. You really think so? Ask him what Heavenly Father looks like. Then ask him what Jesus looks like. Ask the child to describe them.Paul O
Jon Haugo Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Hi PaulWe do not believe in many Gods. We believe in one God revealed in three persons. We don't understand it but we believe it. I believe that Scripture is in harmony with what we believe. If you look at my original post on this thread you will see WHY we believe that.SincerelyStick
Elihu Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Paul, did you read and do a bit of study on Phillipians 2 yet? I didn't see where you addressed my post.Do we have to ask a modern day prophet to reveal anything about Jesus/God/Holy Spirit that has not already been revealed - once for all??????What is the point of it Paul? Just asking why
Elihu Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Seems to me that God is clearly not a man, nor in the form of a man, if Phillipians is true - If Jesus were in our form before, why the need to become in the flesh of a man???
Tanyan Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 So strict Monothieism teaches that Jesus Christ as intimatly solidified and Fused as part of the Western Psychological Trinity he cannot have a "MAN " nature but sexless and no longer be the "GOD MAN". From my understanding the "Early Israelites and Christians" Believed, Taught, [Along with Early Art Work ] envisioned GOD as Male in Anthropormorphic Form/Image. I believe there have been studies LDS/Non-LDS on this issue. Grace.
Paul Osborne Posted November 28, 2004 Posted November 28, 2004 Hi PaulWe do not believe in many Gods. We believe in one God revealed in three persons. We don't understand it but we believe it. I believe that Scripture is in harmony with what we believe. If you look at my original post on this thread you will see WHY we believe that.SincerelyStick I can't accept your testimonial as accurate and I sincerely think you are confused about your Trinity, hence you confessed that you don't understand it. Your Trinity is plural, a Godhead of three persons, multiple Gods - not one, but three, and you package it into one box and call it one.Trinitarianism is not preaching one God but three persons as one God - plural Gods as one. If you want to worship just one God you will have to convert to Islam. Islam is the perfect example of one God. Sorry, but that is the way it is. You are not a monotheist! Muslims and the Jews are monotheist but not Christians. Christianity is plural Gods and so also is Mormonism. At least we have that much in common, brother.Paul O
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.