Dehlin'S Methodology?

[Calm]

Also, Dehlin's followers can be fairly zealotus and will go after folks too.

I am shocked to hear you say this.

2 main issues. John ossolates between courting ex-Mormons and Mormons. When he is courting ex-Mormons he tends to focus on tolerance of communication. When he is courting Mormons, he tends towards censorship of the more strident critical voices. They are then shown the door and asked not to return.

The second issue is that John has many great talents and is a wonderful guy in a lot of ways, but he strongly values loyality and will go after anyone he believes has crossed him or is not showing due support for his ideas. He has had many run ins with almost all of the ex-Mormon and liberal Mormon online communites.

Actually I appreciate you taking the time to share this. It is interesting to see it from the other side of experience, so to speak.

Edited July 2, 2012 by calmoriah

[wenglund]

Sorry to hear that, John. Turf wars among the critics can get ugly at times.

Also, Dehlin's followers can be fairly zealotus and will go after folks too.

Speaking of zealous, how did the public spectacle of your "Declaration of Independence from Mormonism" go? It has generated enough passing interest here to warrant two separate threads:

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/58251-mass-resignation%E2%80%A6the-cannery-in-the-mine/

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[why me]

Sorry to hear that, John. Turf wars among the critics can get ugly at times.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I think that it is great that John Larsen brought all this up about John Dehlin and his followers. It gives Daniel creditability for wanting to publish Greg's piece.

[cinepro]

2 main issues. John ossolates between courting ex-Mormons and Mormons. When he is courting ex-Mormons he tends to focus on tolerance of communication. When he is courting Mormons, he tends towards censorship of the more strident critical voices. They are then shown the door and asked not to return.

The second issue is that John has many great talents and is a wonderful guy in a lot of ways, but he strongly values loyality and will go after anyone he believes has crossed him or is not showing due support for his ideas. He has had many run ins with almost all of the ex-Mormon and liberal Mormon online communites.

Also, Dehlin's followers can be fairly zealotus and will go after folks too.

Interesting. Someone should write a paper or something about him.

[why me]

Interesting. Someone should write a paper or something about him.

[John Larsen]

Sorry to hear that, John. Turf wars among the critics can get ugly at times.

Speaking of zealous, how did the public spectacle of your "Declaration of Independence from Mormonism" go? It has generated enough passing interest here to warrant two separate threads:

http://www.mormondia...ry-in-the-mine/

http://www.mormondia...on-from-church/

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I wasn't the organizer of that event, although I supported it. We are still getting press contacts. I think it ran in over 80 newspapers and the blog has had over 16,000 hits in the last few weeks.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I don't agree. There are some topics that even public figures have a right to privacy on.

I would be furious, fast if it was not that way. Sad to see it abused sometimes. Edited July 2, 2012 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[John Larsen]

I think that it is great that John Larsen brought all this up about John Dehlin and his followers. It gives Daniel creditability for wanting to publish Greg's piece.

I would like to read it. If it is BS, that will speak for itself. Otherwise, we can read it and talk about it. If someone were to write a piece like this about me, it would undoubtably be uncomforable but I wouldn't try to stop it. There are somethings I would have to clarify, maybe some things I have changed my mind on. But showing that I said something shouldn't be threatening.

[wenglund]

I wasn't the organizer of that event, although I supported it.

One article I read listed your wife as an organizer and you as the co-organizer. I guess we can't believe everything in the newspapers.

We are still getting press contacts. I think it ran in over 80 newspapers and the blog has had over 16,000 hits in the last few weeks.

Is there a list of names from the Declaration of Independence? I am just curious to see how many of them decided to leave the Church on the day of the event, and how many of them had already left (spiritually or mentally, if not literally) some time prior to the event.

I'm also curious if sour grapes were served?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[John Larsen]

One article I read listed your wife as an organizer and you as the co-organizer. I guess we can't believe everything in the newspapers.

Is there a list of names from the Declaration of Independence? I am just curious to see how many of them decided to leave the Church on the day of the event, and how many of them had already left (spiritually or mentally, if not literally) some time prior to the event.

I'm also curious if sour grapes were served?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Of the 150 of the people who were there, we collected about 50 letters. The others for the most part had already resigned and some of them weren't ready to do so, but supported those who did. We would have had more but we ran out of form letters.

I am the co-organize since I am married to the organizer, but Zilpha deserves the credit and I don't want to take that away from her. She did most of the heavy lifting, but I full supported her and I was the only speaker at the event. I think I gave a 7 minute talk.

[wenglund]

Of the 150 of the people who were there, we collected about 50 letters. The others for the most part had already resigned and some of them weren't ready to do so, but supported those who did. We would have had more but we ran out of form letters.

I am the co-organize since I am married to the organizer, but Zilpha deserves the credit and I don't want to take that away from her. She did most of the heavy lifting, but I full supported her and I was the only speaker at the event. I think I gave a 7 minute talk.

Can I see the names that were signed to the Declaration, and if so, where?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited July 2, 2012 by wenglund

[John Larsen]

Can I see the names that were signed to the Declaration, and if so, where?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I reminded Zilpha to post images. She is going to photograph them and post the to the resignmormon.blogspot.com site.

[wenglund]

I reminded Zilpha to post images. She is going to photograph them and post the to the resignmormon.blogspot.com site.

I will look forward to it.

By the way, in regards to the graphic at the top of that blogspot, where there are a number of people with there hands in the air, I could be wrong, but it appears that several of them are flipping the bird. Am I seeing things correctly?

Also, it seems that in recent years there has been a proliferation of ex-Mormon organizations and associated web sites. Is there so much demand among disgruntled former members that one organization like RFM won't suffice?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[John Larsen]

I will look forward to it.

By the way, in regards to the graphic at the top of that blogspot, where there are a number of people with there hands in the air, I could be wrong, but it appears that several of them are flipping the bird. Am I seeing things correctly?

Also, it seems that in recent years there has been a proliferation of ex-Mormon organizations and associated web sites. Is there so much demand among disgruntled former members that one organization like RFM won't suffice?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

The Non-Mormon community is diverse. Different resource to support different communities. I could ask the same question, isn't Meridian Magazine sufficent for you guys?

If the image has people giving an obscene gesture, I can assure you that it wasn't the intent of the organizers.

[why me]

I would like to read it. If it is BS, that will speak for itself. Otherwise, we can read it and talk about it. If someone were to write a piece like this about me, it would undoubtably be uncomforable but I wouldn't try to stop it. There are somethings I would have to clarify, maybe some things I have changed my mind on. But showing that I said something shouldn't be threatening.

This has been my point all along. I admire your take on it. I think that John Dehlin did himself a disservice by squashing it. He is a public figure in the mormon community and he should allow others to discuss his intentions and reasonings. Unless of course, he has something to hide.

[why me]

Of the 150 of the people who were there, we collected about 50 letters. The others for the most part had already resigned and

I am the co-organize since I am married to the organizer, but Zilpha deserves the credit and I don't want to take that away from her. She did most of the heavy lifting, but I full supported her and I was the only speaker at the event. I think I gave a 7 minute talk.

But what was the point? I see no point in this kind of stunt outside of publicity. But it has no productive value at all.

[mrmandias]

But what was the point? I see no point in this kind of stunt outside of publicity. But it has no productive value at all.

Well, publicity!

But if I were going to put a good face on it, I would say that for some of these people, something called "the Mormon Church" has been occupying much of their mindspace and a formal symbolic rejection may supply the catharsis to move on to other pursuits.

[John Larsen]

But what was the point? I see no point in this kind of stunt outside of publicity. But it has no productive value at all.

It is sort of like the point of going to Church and having "Visitors Welcome" printed out the outside of the building. You go to Church (presumably) because it makes you feel good. You go to a particular church because you think it is right. You welcome new people because you want them to experience the joy that you feel.

[John Larsen]

Well, publicity!

But if I were going to put a good face on it, I would say that for some of these people, something called "the Mormon Church" has been occupying much of their mindspace and a formal symbolic rejection may supply the catharsis to move on to other pursuits.

Does not the Church have a PR department? Are these threads not published for public consumption. Publicity is something that is valued by almost everyone. It seems kind of strange to point it out as a fault in others and yet seek it for yourself.

[why me]

You welcome new people because you want them to experience the joy that you feel.

So, you have a mass resigning of 50 people or so, so they can feel joy in doing so?

[why me]

Does not the Church have a PR department? Are these threads not published for public consumption. Publicity is something that is valued by almost everyone. It seems kind of strange to point it out as a fault in others and yet seek it for yourself.

Okay, so it was a publicity stunt. Not a bad publicity stunt for your wife to get some press for.

[wenglund]

It is sort of like the point of going to Church and having "Visitors Welcome" printed out the outside of the building. You go to Church (presumably) because it makes you feel good. You go to a particular church because you think it is right. You welcome new people because you want them to experience the joy that you feel.

So...you are talking about a kind of religious experience. Call it an initiatory rite for the Church of I Just Left the Mormons. Evidently, the way of joy and happiness in that Church appears to be not so much defined by what you believe and how you behave, but by what Church you no longer belong to.

Interesting.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited July 2, 2012 by wenglund

[Calm]

But what was the point? I see no point in this kind of stunt outside of publicity. But it has no productive value at all.

Publicizing draws attention to the group, which may lead to others joining the mormonexpression community and eventually feeling strengthened by that community, reject and resign the Church. That is productive in the community's view, even if it is not in yours.

something called "the Mormon Church" has been occupying much of their mindspace and a formal symbolic rejection may supply the catharsis to move on to other pursuits.

The "freedom" shout would seem to indicate this. Edited July 2, 2012 by calmoriah

[Calm]

So, you have a mass resigning of 50 people or so, so they can feel joy in doing so?

It is simple group dynamics. The more people agreeing with you, the more comfortable and satisfied with your action/decision you are going to be. This can be a problem when it interferes with individual thought and motivation, but it can be also positive. It is why we meet together often as a church, to support and sustain each other. Edited July 2, 2012 by calmoriah

[Teancum]

It is far from an "inside scoop." It is broadcast widely as the three-fold mission of the Church, and clearly reinforced in most every lesson and talk. The only way it can be missed is to close one's eye or be distracted by irrelevancies. Were you not blind or distracted, and were these facts important to you, you would have known this.

As for facts not mattering to me, it depends on the facts. The number of grains of sand that were in Osama Ben Ladin's beard when he died, is not a fact that matters much to me. What the gospel is all about, and the things that are needed to become like Christ, are important to me.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Based on what I see you posting here I dare say you know not near as much as you think about being Christ like or a true disciple of His. What I know or do not know about such things I will not broadcast here nor pretend to be able to tutor people on such like you attempt too. Suffice it to say it seems clear to me that to be a disciple of Christ does not require the LDS Church or any other for that matter though such organizations can help and sometimes hurt, the process.