Dehlin'S Methodology?

[rodheadlee]

The threat is not from the Church, it is from the families. I have personnal met people who have lost their jobs, lost business partners, lost their families, lost custody of their children, been divorced, written out of wills, had the neighborhood children forbidden from playing with their children, shunned and generally socially abused over the decision. It is not trival and not to be taken lightly.

I am shamed to say it but I believe it. My adopted brother was treated like this growing up in the Mormon corridor. Two things come to mind.

1) It's totally wrong on the part of any person calling themselves a Christian to behave this way.

I see a two part harvest, those leaving the Church of Jesus Christ and those within the Church working against Zion with their actions.

2) This is only possible in the Mormon corridor with people who have grown up in the area as a BIC.

I have been around the block a few times and it just doesn't wash for those living in other parts of the world/US.

I'm a convert, if I lost my faith I'd just go back to being who I was. In fact I'm still struggling to not be that person.

Edited July 4, 2012 by rodheadlee

[wenglund]

Mormons like you, frankly.

We don't want the power over you that you have evidently given us, nor have we given you permission to grant us that power over you. For your own sake, take back control of yourself. If that is too burdensome, try off-loading some of the powers you have illegitimately usurped, like portending to be a board nanny.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[William Schryver]

... I think the Church is a generally harmful force in the world.

Of course you do.

I'm rather certain that you and a substantial number of apostate Mormons

consider the Church a pernicious influence

and a malignant impediment to cultural progress

in any place where it is found in numbers sufficient to wield power.

Therefore the Church is your enemy,

and you seek not only to separate yourself from it

and resect its every influence from your mind and memory

but also, to the extent you are able,

excise it from the body politic.

[ERayR]

It won't happen. Too many variables. No one is ever going to prove the church true or false. It's been investigated and has several facts and logic trying to disprove, but as long as a person believes a man is speaking for the Lord, no proof can compare. Not even the proof that the papyra is a book of breathings according to egyptologists, not the BOA. But there's always an answer when you have a prophet on the earth.

Get back to me if you feel any different after the Savior addresses the church in a general conference from Salt Lake City..

Edited July 4, 2012 by ERayR

[Bit]

Mormons like you, frankly.

Well I apologize. Did I hold a gun to your head and deny you your freedom of speech? Or was it a less violent mouth gag? Please, tell me what myself and those like me have done to silence you.

[Bit]

Mr. Larsen, it is/was wrong for families to treat someone I the manner in which you described. The LDS church does not teach its members to treat others that way. We are commanded to "love one another." So, disagree with the people who choose to treat other people in the way you describe--I certainly do--speak out against such treatment. People have treated each other crappily since the beginning of time.

It has nothing to do with the church.

[why me]

Of course you do.

I'm rather certain that you and a substantial number of apostate Mormons

consider the Church a pernicious influence

and a malignant impediment to cultural progress

in any place where it is found in numbers sufficient to wield power.

Therefore the Church is your enemy,

and you seek not only to separate yourself from it

and resect its every influence from your mind and memory

but also, to the extent you are able,

excise it from the body politic.

And I think that this is the moving force behind those who leave and post aggressively on the internet. By attempting to destroy it as a institution and deconstructing the lds church as a body, they will be justified in leaving it, if they are successful.

[John Ping Pong]

Well I apologize. Did I hold a gun to your head and deny you your freedom of speech? Or was it a less violent mouth gag? Please, tell me what myself and those like me have done to silence you.

Comments like yours and Wade's seek to ignore the very real chilling effect the expectation of conformity among Mormonism has on free religious speech within a Mormon context.

This is because, within Mormonism, conformity equals virtue.

Or as Elder McConkie famously put it, "Obedience is the first law of heaven."

[wenglund]

Comments like yours and Wade's seek to ignore the very real chilling effect the expectation of conformity among Mormonism has on free religious speech within a Mormon context.

This is a remarkably uninformed and, ironically, thought-terminating sound-bite, not to mention demonstrably wrong (as evinced by the freedom, willingness, and openness with which each of us are now speaking about religion).

Besides, I am pleased to already have, and to again, consider the effects of conformity on religious speech. In fact, I am willing to do so without coming to the discussion with circular presuppositions. In other words, I am willing to reasonably explore the effects prior to deciding whether the effect is "chilling" and/or undesirable. How about you?

This is because, within Mormonism, conformity equals virtue.

Or as Elder McConkie famously put it, "Obedience is the first law of heaven."

Are you suggesting that conformity and obedience aren't virtues or a good thing?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Bit]

Comments like yours and Wade's seek to ignore the very real chilling effect the expectation of conformity among Mormonism has on free religious speech within a Mormon context.

This is because, within Mormonism, conformity equals virtue.

Or as Elder McConkie famously put it, "Obedience is the first law of heaven."

I meant no offence, JPP. I am just wondering why you feel controlled or compelled to behave in a certain way. For me, I know I have 100% free will, but am also responsible for the choices I make. If I choose to not state an opinion publicly, it is not because some organization has prevented me from it, it is because I choose not to.

You're free to make your own choices too, JPP. You have to live with the consequences, but no one is controlling you.