Masonry In Temples Ordinances

[DBMormon]

There are two standing theories on this issue

1.) Joseph Smith saw Masonry's methods as a way to get accross the inspired revealed Endowment. Those who stand by this theory claim that Masonry has no connection to ancient Christanity or Temple worship.

2.) the second view is that Masonry is a degraded form of ancient Christianity and Temple Worship with legitimate inspired ritual that though needed to be uncorrupted was ancient in its historical context.

Which view do you have and how do you reconcile each with the following two bits of information

A.) Many of the early church leaders attested to Jospeh stating that MAsonry was a corrupted form of historical ancient ritual tied into temple worship and early Christanity based on early quotes

Thus, in a letter to Parley P. Pratt, written three months after Joseph became a Master Mason, Heber C. Kimball observed that:

There is a similarity of Priesthood in Masonry. Brother Joseph says Masonry was taken from the Priesthood, but has degenerated. But many things are perfect.

Later, he explained that:

The Masonry of today is received from the apostasy which took place in the days of Solomon and David. They have now and then a thing that is correct,

but we have the real thing

.

Benjamin F. Johnson, another of Joseph's intimate friends, recalled the similar opinion of the Prophet that:

Freemasonry was the apostate endowment, as sectarian religion was the apostate religion.

B.) Most experts believe Masonry derives from a much more modern historical context unrelated to ancient worship.

I tend to go with #2 as I see a difficulty in reconciling the quotes from Early Church Leaders. Also I believe there is enough evidence that Masonry is tied into ancient Christian ritual to support it.

Edited April 16, 2012 by reelmormon

[LDSToronto]

I subscribe to the theory that freemasonry derives from the craft guilds circa 1400-1500. I don't believe the rituals derive from early Christian temple rituals.

H.

[selek1]

Was there a question or an item for discussion lurking in the cut-and-paste?

For the record, my answer is 2.a.

Now what?

Edited April 16, 2012 by selek1

[DBMormon]

I subscribe to the theory that freemasonry derives from the craft guilds circa 1400-1500. I don't believe the rituals derive from early Christian temple rituals.

H.

How do you reconcile this with the quotes of the early leaders?

[Glenn101]

I subscribe to the theory that freemasonry derives from the craft guilds circa 1400-1500. I don't believe the rituals derive from early Christian temple rituals.

H.

The one FreeMason that I have personally met believes that they derive from early Christian temple rituals. This has been some few years ago when I was in the Navy.

Glenn

Edited April 16, 2012 by Glenn101

[DBMormon]

The FreeMasons that I have personally met believe that they derive from early Christian temple rituals.

Glenn

Do they see suffcient evidence of that?

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

One Eternal Round: The Hermetic Vision by Hugh Nibley

[wenglund]

One Eternal Round: The Hermetic Vision by Hugh Nibley

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

It may be wise to draw a distinction between: 1) the essential elements and message of the temple narratives/rituals, and 2) the specific language or words used to enact those narratives/ritual. The former may be ancient, while the later is likely modern.

The same, in principle, may apply to Free Masonry.

I am of the opinion that LDS temple ceremonies may have derived some of the later from Free Masonry, while deriving the former from God.

And, Free Masonry may have derived some of the former from various sources that lead back to antiquity, and in that sense it has ancient origins.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[rameumptom]

Many concepts in the endowment are reflected in the Book of Mormon. What Joseph needed was a vehicle through which to unleash those teachings in a systematic theological way. The Masonic rite became his catalyst, just as Joseph used the Bible as a catalyst for many of his revelations (Book of Moses, etc). It doesn't matter whether the Masonic rite is ancient or not, it was a good symbolic process to build his endowment.

[Damien the Leper]

I have very limited understanding of Masonry. I have past experiences with the temple but have no other information to comapre it to. I hope the endowment is authentic in its own right but in the end, the temple ordinances are the least of my worries.

[mfbukowski]

I think Joseph borrowed a Masonic "vocabulary" to restore ancient Christian beliefs. It is clear there were Christianized Masons in the Palmyra area at the time of the restoration- but there is no question that for example, the initiatories were part of ancient Christian liturgies.

http://www.copticchu...nfirmation.html

THE ANOINTMENTS

The priest places his right thumb on top of the opening of the Myron bottle, and turns it downwards to wet his finger with the Myron. He then anoints the baptized as follows :

The first four anointments (eight crosses) are on the senses

Firstly, the top of the head, the nostrils, the mouth, and the right ear

Then, the right eye, the left eye, an finally the left ear

Whilst anointing, the priest says, “In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. The anointment of grace of the Holy Spirit, Amen.”

NOTES:

He anoints The Head to sanctify it. The head contains the brain, where thinking takes place. It is the brain which distinguishes humankind from other creatures. A good mind is of great use and benefit to oneself and to others also. King Solomon praises the mind saying, “When wisdom enters your heart and knowledge is pleasant to your soul, discretion will preserve you, understanding will keep you, to deliver from the way evil” (Proverbs 2: 10-12).

Also, the Lord Jesus praised the young man who answered wisely and said to him: “You are not far from the Kingdom of God” (Mark 12:34). And St. Paul our teacher prays for us saying, “And the peace of God which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus” (Philippians 4:7).

The Nostrils contain the sense of smell, and it is an important sense, for if a person is not careful and alert, it is possible for impure thoughts to enter ones heart through this sense. Hence, the priest anoints it to protect it against all sin and lust.

The Mouth with the tongue is the most dangerous organ in a person...

“If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless” (James 1:26).

It continues describing the rest of the annointing ritual.

Edited April 16, 2012 by mfbukowski

[David T]

I like how Sam Brown essentially put it in his fantastic book 'In Heaven As It Is On Earth: Joseph Smith And The Early Mormon Conquest of Death', that Joseph 'Translated' Masonic ritual in the way he 'Translated' the King James Bible, or even the Egyptian Papyri - he endowed it with new and updated meaning, context, and purpose. Translation as taking something old, and making it something new and living.

I think it's clear that Joseph interpreted the meaning of his inspiration was that he was bringing back something ancient. There's some great research going on currently in regards to this, as it connects with many other aspects of his understanding of his mission, doctrines, and organizations. While I feel what he did was inspired, I don't feel it's necessary to understand it in the way Joseph did. Joseph was in very many ways a truly gifted and inspired gatherer.

I don't find it necessary for it to be in practice an ancient restoration in order for it to be an authentic religious rite, and serve a powerful modern efficacy.

Edited April 16, 2012 by David T

[mfbukowski]

Remember also that the Endowment has been changed from time to time.

This indicates to me that the words spoken and symbols are not to be understood as literal "magic incantations" etched somewhere in the cosmos, but tools to allow us to seek our own inspiration.

Their "origin" in the sense of the words and symbols used, is no more important to me, in what they "say" than is the historical origin of our present day Roman lettering system or the etymology of English words. The origins of symbols are not important. What IS important is what the symbols convey and their use in a specific context.

It is the context which gives meaning, and we often are the main interpreters of those contexts for ourselves. In other words, the meaning of the Endowment is primarily between us and God and for us to interpret personally, and our personal understanding is what matters most.

[ghedmondson]

I will address the issues that brought up in a brief manner however if you want to learn more about the history of Freemasonry it is always best to go to the source. Please contact your nearest Research Lodge. Talk to the Masons there or at your nearest local lodge.

Keep in mind that just like in Mormonism (or other groups) there are people who are very interested in historical issues and many who simply enjoy the social aspect of The Craft.

From my personal experience the Masons involved in Research Lodges are very knowledgeable many hold advance degrees in areas related to historical studies and very willing to answer your questions. In fact we love it when someone shows a genuine interest in Masonic History!

Here is a good list of Research Lodges:

http://bessel.org/resldgs.htm

Note: To get full access to their archives you have to be a Master Mason but talking to them 1-on-1 you can still get a lot of information.

Here is a good example of Mason/Mormon who is part of a Research Lodge

http://mormonexpression.com/?s=mason

1. Joseph Smith like virtually all Masons of his time believed that the Masonic Ritual was of ancient origins. The current ritual of Freemasonry is not ancient. Its development can be traced through several lodges mainly in the 1700’s. In fact the current ritual is simply the one that became the most popular, there were several others for the first 3 degrees.
   
2. Freemasonary does use ancient symbols but the ritual its self is not ancient. The Stone Mason Guilds of the Middle Ages were simply craft guilds which were virtually indistinguishable from other craft guilds.
   

From the Masonic perspective the Nauvoo era Temple Endowment was an ‘Appendant Body’ that is why virtually all Temple Endowed Mormons of that time were also Master Masons. A contemporary Mormon could view the first three Masonic degrees as an extended Temple Preparation class. Joseph Smith simply took the masonic symbols (which are explained in the 1^st three degrees) along with his revelations/doctrines and combined them together to form an LDS Temple Appendant Body. Such practices were fairly common in Joseph’s day and continue today.

http://www.mastermason.com/Lodge58/appendants.htm

[wenglund]

I like how Sam Brown essentially put it in his fantastic book 'In Heaven As It Is On Earth: Joseph Smith And The Early Mormon Conquest of Death', that Joseph 'Translated' Masonic ritual in the way he 'Translated' the King James Bible - he endowed it with new and updated meaning, context, and purpose. Translation as taking something old, and making it something new and living.

I think it's clear that Joseph interpreted the meaning of his inspiration was that he was bringing back something ancient. There's some great research going on currently in regards to this, as it connects with many other aspects of his understanding of his mission, doctrines, and organizations. While I feel what he did was inspired, I don't necessarily feel it's necessary to understand it in the way Joseph did. Joseph was in very many ways an truly gifted and inspired gatherer.

Agreed.

To me, in some respects, the power and beauty and "reality" of Joseph's divine gift may be found in his limited understanding, at times, of what he "gathered." Even with his advanced understanding of spiritual things in the moment, I believe there were aspects of things he helped restore that were beyond his capacity to fully grasp in the moment, and have only come to light through the maturation of the body of the Church. Surely, when he experienced the First Vision at the tender age of 14, he wasn't able to appreciate the significance of certain elements thereof until years later and after receiving a more developed and mature spiritual world view--which may be reflected in the differing accounts he gave of that sacred event over time. It wasn't that the event changed, but rather his understanding of it.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[mfbukowski]

Here is a good example of Mason/Mormon who is part of a Research Lodge

http://mormonexpression.com/?s=mason

For what it's worth, this site is known as hardly friendly to Mormons. It is not an objective source.

[mfbukowski]

Agreed.

Agreed as well. Also with David T

[ghedmondson]

For what it's worth, this site is known as hardly friendly to Mormons. It is not an objective source.

Agreed. I brought it up only as an example of a Mormon/Mason, Clint aka "George Miller" who is part of a Masonic Research Lodge. Research Lodges are good sources for Masonic histories but they will know little about Mormons. Unless they happen to have someone in Lodge who is a Mormon.

Edited April 16, 2012 by ghedmondson

[David T]

For what it's worth, this site is known as hardly friendly to Mormons. It is not an objective source.

Actually, 'George Miller', who is presenting on that podcast, is active LDS, and is indeed the premier expert on the 19th Century Masonic/LDS connection. He's presented some fascinating research at the recent MHA conference, and is continuing on expanding that work. I can't speak for the rest of the podcasts on that site, but this particular series with George Miller is fantastic, and highly informative.

Edited April 16, 2012 by David T

[mfbukowski]

Actually, 'George Miller', who is presenting on that podcast, is active LDS, and is indeed the premier expert on the 19th Century Masonic/LDS connection. He's presented some fascinating research at the recent MHA conference, and is continuing on expanding that work. I can't speak for the rest of the podcasts on that site, but this particular series with George Miller is fantastic, and highly informative.

Yes I have had a personal discussion with "George" and agree with you.

I was talking about John Dehlin's site. For a second I hadn't realized those were the George Miller podcasts.

[mfbukowski]

Agreed. I brought it up only as an example of a Mormon/Mason, Clint aka "George Miller" who is part of a Masonic Research Lodge. Research Lodges are good sources for Masonic histories but they will know little about Mormons. Unless they happen to have someone in Lodge who is a Mormon.

OK

[David T]

Yes I have had a personal discussion with "George" and agree with you.

I was talking about John Dehlin's site. For a second I hadn't realized those were the George Miller podcasts.

And this is John Larsen's site, not John Dehlin's

Edited April 16, 2012 by David T

[mfbukowski]

And this is John Larson's site, not John Dehlin's

AHA! Ok thanks for the correction! Boy I am messing up all over the place here. Still not exactly friendly to the Mormon cause though! Thanks again.

[wenglund]

Actually, 'George Miller', who is presenting on that podcast, is active LDS, and is indeed the premier expert on the 19th Century Masonic/LDS connection.

He is certainly well informed on the subject, particularly certain aspects--though not in such a way as to place his, at times, controversial conclusions beyond dispute. For that matter, many of his conclusions have yet to really be put the test. Because of this, I am not sure it right to call him an "expert," let alone "premier expert" on the subject, although his opinions are deserving of consideration.

He's presented some fascinating research at the recent MHA conference...

Unfortunately, it isn't available for scrutiny or consumption by the general public.

...and is continuing on expanding that work. I can't speak for the rest of the podcasts on that site, but this particular series with George Miller is fantastic, and highly informative.

Agreed.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-