Masonry In Temples Ordinances

[phaedrus ut]

The fact that 2 of the most explicitly masonic elements of the endowment were revised out in 1990 should be the strongest piece of evidence of whether it's a ancient ritual or not.

Phaedrus

[David T]

Here's a pro-LDS page which discusses the beautiful lost and generally misunderstood symbolism of one of those eliminated elements. The Sacred Embrace as Five Points of Fellowship

Mods, I understand this may be felt to be sensitive, but the way it is handled on the site does not quote or seek to 'expose' from the Temple, but rather emphasizes poetry drawing upon the Masonic parallel.

[mfbukowski]

The fact that 2 of the most explicitly masonic elements of the endowment were revised out in 1990 should be the strongest piece of evidence of whether it's a ancient ritual or not.

Phaedrus

Or an ancient ritual "translated" for modern needs.

I've always found it interesting that nearly all the early leaders were Masons and were of course familiar with the similarities, and yet had testimonies of the endowment

Edited April 16, 2012 by mfbukowski

[wenglund]

The fact that 2 of the most explicitly masonic elements of the endowment were revised out in 1990 should be the strongest piece of evidence of whether it's a ancient ritual or not.

Phaedrus

Putting modern fixtures into an old cathedral (like elevators and electrical lighting, etc.) doesn't negate the ancientness of the cathedral.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[phaedrus ut]

Putting modern fixtures into an old cathedral (like elevators and electrical lighting, etc.) doesn't negate the ancientness of the cathedral.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

We not talking about adding anything. The changes, as I'm sure you know, are 99% from the removal of material, instructions, lectures, people, and symbols and a few additions so the remaining material makes sense. You're analogy is like saying the Cliff's Notes version of King Lear is authentic Shakespeare and they've added modern language.

The point of my example was that the dynamic nature of the changing ceremony should illustrate the need to understand it as modern. If it was ancient why restore it only to continually revise the instructions and details of the ceremony?

Phaedrus

[Zakuska]

I think Joseph borrowed a Masonic "vocabulary" to restore ancient Christian beliefs. It is clear there were Christianized Masons in the Palmyra area at the time of the restoration- but there is no question that for example, the initiatories were part of ancient Christian liturgies.

THE ANOINTMENTS

The priest places his right thumb on top of the opening of the Myron bottle, and turns it downwards to wet his finger with the Myron. He then anoints the baptized as follows :

The first four anointments (eight crosses) are on the senses

Firstly, the top of the head, the nostrils, the mouth, and the right ear

Then, the right eye, the left eye, an finally the left ear

Whilst anointing, the priest says, “In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. The anointment of grace of the Holy Spirit, Amen.”

NOTES:

He anoints The Head to sanctify it. The head contains the brain, where thinking takes place. It is the brain which distinguishes humankind from other creatures. A good mind is of great use and benefit to oneself and to others also. King Solomon praises the mind saying, “When wisdom enters your heart and knowledge is pleasant to your soul, discretion will preserve you, understanding will keep you, to deliver from the way evil” (Proverbs 2: 10-12).

Also, the Lord Jesus praised the young man who answered wisely and said to him: “You are not far from the Kingdom of God” (Mark 12:34). And St. Paul our teacher prays for us saying, “And the peace of God which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus” (Philippians 4:7).

The Nostrils contain the sense of smell, and it is an important sense, for if a person is not careful and alert, it is possible for impure thoughts to enter ones heart through this sense. Hence, the priest anoints it to protect it against all sin and lust.

The Mouth with the tongue is the most dangerous organ in a person...

“If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless” (James 1:26).

http://www.copticchu...nfirmation.html

It continues describing the rest of the annointing ritual.

Completely agree.

For those who have eyes to see:

Heb 5

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Anointing with oil is a common practice of exercising the senses to dicern good and evil.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Zakuska

[wenglund]

We not talking about adding anything.

Please don't miss the point. I could have just as easily used the analogy of removing a few pews from the cathedral--which removal wouldn't negate the ancientness of the cathedral.

The point of my example was that the dynamic nature of the changing ceremony should illustrate the need to understand it as modern. If it was ancient why restore it only to continually revise the instructions and details of the ceremony?

You are posing two different questions.

The first question is whether the essential elements of the temple ceremony are ancient or modern, and whether modern revisions of the non-essential parts of the ceremony, means that the essential elements aren't ancient? My analogies demonstrate that the modern revisions of the non-essential elements of the ancient ceremonies doesn't negate the ancientness of the essential elements of the ceremony.

The second question is why was the ancient ceremony revised in modern times? Since I wasn't involved in the decision-making process, I can't really say for sure. I can only guess that the non-essential elements were revised because it was in the interest of all relevant parties to do so.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[mfbukowski]

Completely agree.

For those who have eyes to see:

Heb 5

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Anointing with oil is a common practice of exercising the senses to dicern good and evil.

[HiJolly]

The fact that 2 of the most explicitly masonic elements of the endowment were revised out in 1990 should be the strongest piece of evidence of whether it's a ancient ritual or not.

Phaedrus

Not really, P.

HJ

[Antoni]

Many concepts in the endowment are reflected in the Book of Mormon. What Joseph needed was a vehicle through which to unleash those teachings in a systematic theological way. The Masonic rite became his catalyst, just as Joseph used the Bible as a catalyst for many of his revelations (Book of Moses, etc). It doesn't matter whether the Masonic rite is ancient or not, it was a good symbolic process to build his endowment.

My thoughts too.

Josephy Smith was appointed Chaplain of his lodge after becoming a member, in this capactiy his role would be to open and close the lodge with a prayer, the rest of the time during the rituals he'd have watched. Using his gifting, I think he'd have seen the impact participatory ritual can have on an individual and group and that's why God placed him there, so that he could see/learn and then develop the Temple Ordinances.

[wenglund]

My thoughts too.

Josephy Smith was appointed Chaplain of his lodge after becoming a member, in this capactiy his role would be to open and close the lodge with a prayer, the rest of the time during the rituals he'd have watched. Using his gifting, I think he'd have seen the impact participatory ritual can have on an individual and group and that's why God placed him there, so that he could see/learn and then develop the Temple Ordinances.

If I understand correctly, at least some portions of the temple ceremony had been revealed as early as 1835, in preparation for the dedication of the Kirtland temple. This predates Joseph's membership in the Nauvoo lodge by about seven years.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited April 17, 2012 by wenglund

[Antoni]

If I understand correctly, at least some portions of the temple ceremony had been revealed as early as 1835, in preparation for the dedication of the Kirtland temple. This predates Joseph's membership in the Nauvoo lodge by about seven years.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Ohh thanks for that, more investigation for me to do

[David T]

Ohh thanks for that, more investigation for me to do

Generally the parts that were most likely adapted from passages in the Old Testament and New Testament, and not specifically unique to Masonic ritual, as were later actions, rituals, and phraseology in the Nauvoo period. While it is definitely arguable that Joseph already had some understanding of social and cultural Christianized Masonic tradition, the Kirtland rituals seem more an expression of Literal Biblical Restorationism (inspired and encouraged in some degrees by Rigdon, I understand), and putting back in practice something viewed to have been lost (namely, the practices of priestly washings, and anointings, also associated with Jesus' washing of his apostles feet). The ordinances, however, appear to have had a significantly different purpose and understanding and context attached to them in the Nauvoo era.

[altersteve]

This is an area that I need to study a little more. Could somebody please provide some useful sources if you know of any other than the ones that have been posted in this thread already? Thank you.

[Antoni]

Just thinking out loud....

as Joseph Smith's father was a mason, so perhaps he'd had discussions with him prior to him joining, or read his ritual books?

[wenglund]

Just thinking out loud....

as Joseph Smith's father was a mason, so perhaps he'd had discussions with him prior to him joining, or read his ritual books?

I have to wonder if Joseph's father and elder brother were as respectful of their masonic covenants as my parents were of their temple covenants, and as a result they may not have discussed much at all (certainly not in detail), or made available to non-initiates like Joseph, their masonic rituals.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[David T]

It seems to me that the world view and Christianized story (as can be read in Antiquities of Masonry) would have been more likely to be shared, as well as language that had come to be part of their speech. Masonic interpretations of Biblical stories would easily have been expressed when re-telling them, or explaining details not explicitly found in the Bible itself, etc.

Just as Mormon kids will have seen their parents' garments, and heard somewhere that Michael/Adam was involved in the Creation Story, and even heard temple phrases subconsciously entered into their parents unconscious colloquial speech, all without anything specifically not permitted to be shared being communicated, I find it not difficult to feel a child of Masons could be very familiar with Masonic elements and culture without yet having the full connecting picture presented, or even knowing that was the source of all those things.

Edited April 17, 2012 by David T

[wenglund]

It seems to me that the world view and Christianized story (as can be read in Antiquities of Masonry) would have been more likely to be shared, as well as language that had come to be part of their speech. Masonic interpretations of Biblical stories would easily have been expressed when re-telling them, or explaining details not explicitly found in the Bible itself, etc.

Just as Mormon kids will have seen their parents' garments, and heard somewhere that Michael/Adam was involved in the Creation Story, and even heard temple phrases subconsciously entered into their parents unconscious colloquial speech, all without anything specifically not permitted to be shared being communicated, I find it not difficult to feel a child of Masons could be very familiar with Masonic elements and culture without yet having the full connecting picture presented, or even knowing that was the source of all those things.

All I know is that, even though I grew up in a home with active temple-attending parents, when I first went to the temple at the start of my mission, it was a relatively foreign experience for me. Sure I was somewhat familiar with certain aspects of the ceremony that are depicted in multiple places in the scriptures. However, aside from that, the rest was pretty much new to me, and even a bit outside my comfort zone--though I have since gained a loving appreciation for those things.

I can't think of a good reason why Joseph's experience wouldn't have been similar to mine in terms of his father and brother and Free Masonry.

But, then, I am quite open to Joseph having received the temple ceremony by way of revelation.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited April 17, 2012 by wenglund

[bcuzbcuz]

Masonry is relatively modern phenomenon , with the first grand lodge being founded in the 1700's. It was made up as a secret society with secret words and handshakes that had no links to ancient ceremonies other than merely proclaiming that they were ancient. One of my grandfathers was a Freemason who later joined the Oddfellows. My other grandfather was a Shriner and played the Tuba in their marching band. I think that both saw the fellowship of their organizations as a community of friends and a good excuse to get out of the house.

Joseph Smith was a mason and copied the ceremonies complete with secret words, oaths and handshakes.

[altersteve]

Joseph Smith was a mason and copied the ceremonies complete with secret words, oaths and handshakes.

Well, that's that, I guess. Bcuzbcuz has spoken.

[David T]

Joseph Smith was a mason and copied the ceremonies complete with secret words, oaths and handshakes.

Sure he did. That's not the question, or the problem. At least it shouldn't be. The question is the significance, and if the fact that he re-contextualized them, added to them, and gave them a new meaning is a legitimate inspired prophetic action, whether or not the originals he was influenced by were ancient or not.

Edited April 17, 2012 by David T

[wenglund]

Joseph Smith was a mason and copied the ceremonies complete with secret words, oaths and handshakes.

You evidently haven't done a thorough comparison of the two ceremonies, but I hope the Kool-Aid tasted good.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Senator]

..... but I hope the Kool-Aid tasted good.

Bad form, man.....bad form.

[wenglund]

Bad form, man.....bad form.

Please pray for my degenerate soul, and continue to set an impeccable example..

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited April 17, 2012 by wenglund

[bcuzbcuz]

but I hope the Kool-Aid tasted good.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

No, thank You. A completely nonsensical, supposedly humorous, irrelevant and sarcastic comment always lightens up my day